TR Casual Discussion Çay Bahçesi

[I_Love_F16]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543143952836182019

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543161471001141249

 

[B.t.N]

Yeah, and in Tekirdag, officials expect to find over a billion m3 of aged, high octane RAKI under the basement of the recently shut down factory! Reserve expected to last for over two decades…

 

[Manomed]

Yeah, and in Tekirdag, officials expect to find over a billion m3 of aged, high octane RAKI under the basement of the recently shut down factory! Reserve expected to last for over two decades…

I miss drinking rakı fr

 

[Tabmachine]

Without first authoritarian secularism where you force the people to get educated(at least the first 5 grades,until middle school),you cannot have people with consciousness.
The individual will not know what consciousness is.
If Pakistan would have had a decade with M.A.Jinnah,it wouldnt be called Islamic Republic of Pakistan but only Pakistan.
You wouldnt have Sharia Law or Blasphemy Law,village elders wouldnt decide what a person can or cant do,10 year old girls wouldnt be married to who ever.
consciousness?

Requiring people to receive fundamental education is certainly reasonable, though I'm not sure that would fall under the categorization of authoritarian secularism. If your point is that any particular moral worldview should be kept free from children's education for a time, I take your point.

What I am suggesting is, quite contrary to the theocratic argument, that legislating morality to people from on high (and defining banning of any cults/sects as so) is a recipe for disaster. People's minds are not changed through repression, the only way to truly win hearts and minds to a certain perspective is through persuasion. Through convincing people that one point of view is better/truer than another.

In Pakistan our issue is actually much the same. While I don't know what the country would have been like if Quaid-e-Azam were around for longer, much of what you refer to is the product of authoritarianism not vice versa. The Blasphemy laws and other revisions of the political framework, were not the result of any democratic process. They were in fact introduced by the military dictator General Zia-ul-Haq, and after about a decades rule by a secular socialist/communist leader in the Government, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto (who nationalized the economy........................the single greatest set back) . Prior to this poison pill of a couple decades, we were a developing country lauded for our good governance held alongside Singapore. When the World Bank dispensed loans to South Korea, they sent the Koreans to Pakistan to learn good governance.... how things have changed...

If you didn't already guess, these were simply the back and forth of cold war politics taking place, on one hand the eastern-oriented socialists, on the other hand the western-oriented conservatives. Not exactly a democratic situation. We are also a country of 240 million, and started off from a position much worse than you in Turkiye, and as you know the backwardsness you mention correlates highly with poverty.

 

[Tabmachine]

The the exact problem of ''conscious population'' is at display here as he probably admires the sharia law in his country.

I think you have misjudged me, while I do come from a very religious background. In fact both of my parents are involved with Naqshbandiya, and I personally find an appealingness to Tasawwuf in general and Naqshbandis in particular, the Ismailaga seem to have a particularly tradionalist / severe viewpoint and that's not exactly my cup of tea.

Sharia the word simply means "Way", it is short-hand for "Shariatul Muhammadiya" or the "Way of Muhammad" (Peace be upon him and his family). It does not refer specifically to a jurisprudence, at that a jurisprudence which is to be delivered by a state, at that a a jurisprudence to be delivered by the all-encompassing modern state. It is a complicated intellectual discourse of which I have only scratched the surface, and which would probably bore you to death to have to discuss with me.

 

[Nilgiri]

much of what you refer to is the product of authoritarianism not vice versa. The Blasphemy laws and other revisions of the political framework, were not the result of any democratic process.

Thats true.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto (who nationalized the economy........................the single greatest set back) .

Nope. The single greatest setback was the civil war and the authoritarianism drastically mis-applied there.

It stemmed from and was allowed to cascade from the ayub khan precedent (which in itself came from the political crisis after jinnah and such things as the objectives resolution that gave all the ample ammunition for what was to follow).

we were a developing country lauded for our good governance held alongside Singapore.

Not really.

Firstly, Singapore was not a study case till the 80s after it had accomplished sizeable results.

"Good governance" is not the term you are looking for here either.

Pakistan simply was given SEATO credentials in the cold war. The more USD your system is open for, the more can be referenced and "praised".

A useful start, but again needed bedrock to take to any actual realisation....things that Pakistan's establishment absconded from drastically.

That marks the main difference between other cold war western partners in Asia.

When the World Bank dispensed loans to South Korea, they sent the Koreans to Pakistan to learn good governance.... how things have changed...

Again its not "good governance".

These involved institutional framework and policies of the time.....rather than realised execution of such (which can only be measure several decades later).

Singapore sent number of its civil servants to Cambodia as well for similar reason...since Cambodia was fairly institutionally robust for its time (having inherited these from the French and were not being ravaged by major strife like rest of formerly French Indochina).

How would have Cambodia fared today in an alternate history without suffering Pol Pot and his genocidal goons, is still anyone's guess though....as governance is a long term thing.

 

[Rodeo]

Another PKK lover :

https://mobile.twitter.com/pinjavuorinen

Please do report the account.

 

[Manomed]

Another PKK lover :

https://mobile.twitter.com/pinjavuorinen

Please do report the account.

there is lots of these accounts inside of Turkiye as well but our police doesn't do shit.

 

[Okan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545157190826303495

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545177841842651136

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Edit: censored word is Arab.

 

[Ecderha]

Avrupalı parlamenter Miçotakis'i yerin dibine soktu

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545410010259357696

 

[Tonyukuk]

Avrupalı parlamenter Miçotakis'i yerin dibine soktu

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545410010259357696

Yes. Meanwhile they are cheering RTE on for keeping 10 million from entering Europe. All hail the protector of Europe, RTE!

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543143952836182019

Same thing should be done with Europeans and Saudis.

Of course not none of them have a backbone because we worship money.

 

[Zafer]

Like he can do any of what he says. What he is dreaming is what the current government is already doing.

 

[Nutuk]

At least he says to keep the current projects, I am no AKP fan but I shiver with the thought of current CHP on military projects

 

[Tonyukuk]

Like he can do any of what he says. What he is dreaming is what the current government is already doing.

That is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. No offence.

You AKP fans constantly cry that the opposition will ruin defence projects.. And now, when a member of the opposition says he will fully back defence projects, you speak nonsense against him.

You can complain about CHP all you want, but your accusations against Mr Özdağ are baseless. You play the "racist" card. You are no different than western liberals, only you bow down to a god 5 times a day. You're subservient, and self-destructive, just like those who allowed Sweden to turn into Swedistan.

We need a strong defence industry, but we also need secure borders. Something which AKP has vowed not to provide. You will find every excuse to defend AKP's refugee management, but just know that you are on the wrong side of history.

 

[Zafer]

That is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. No offence.

No offense, but you do not have the background to evaluate what is what in Türkiye.

That person can talk to steal votes from AK Party but every person who has lived in Türkiye long enough knows that the things that are being done now can not be kept going without strong determination and push by the top leadership. Even that will not suffice as the enemy that will stand against that leaderships has all the money it takes to keep going against him. Talk is cheap, and all that person does is talk, and what was his name, some one who?

 

[Tonyukuk]

No offense, but you do not have the background to evaluate what is what in Türkiye.

That person can talk to steal votes from AK Party but every person who has lived in Türkiye long enough knows that the things that are being done now can not be kept going without strong determination and push by the top leadership. Even that will not suffice as the enemy that will stand against that leaderships has all the money it takes to keep going against him. Talk is cheap, and all that person does is talk, and what was his name, some one who?

The defence industry has grown in spite of, not because of RTE. Due to the bureaucratic structure which keeps it afloat, it is one of the only things which are doing well in Turkey.

The defence industry is what it is because of SSM, now known as SSB. It was established in 1985.

Let's look at some products and their history:

• T-122 Sakarya: in service since 1997
• T-300 Kasirga: in service since 2000
• J-600T Yildirim: produced in 1998, in service in 2001, revealed to public in 2007
• Otokar Kobra: In service since 1997
• Otokar Akrep: In service since 1994
• Panter towed artillery: Designed early 90s, in service since 2000
• MILGEM project: Research began in mid 90s
• Altay Tank: Work kicked off in mid 90s, to ensure the necessary infrastructure was in place under "MİTÜP – Milli Tank Üretimi Projesi".
• TCG Osman Gazi: In service since 1994

And these are just some examples of vehicles and complete systems. What's important is that knowledge, experience and production capabilities were beginning to take off. Subsystems made by companies like Aselsan are what truly propelled the Turkish Defence industry... By the 2010s, we absolutely had no excuse not to pursue greater heights. When you can produce almost every subsystem for aircraft, land vehicles, sea vessels and missiles, naturally, you decide to build them.

Now with the economy gone to sh1t and the nation full of millions of immigrants, the only thing RTE can brag about is an industry which grew in spite of him. Going to a show with a flightsuit and speaking big isn't fooling anyone.