TR Aftermath of the earthquakes in Turkey's South-east

Ryder

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I really cant understand Erdogan , he is on the edge of losing the election and this before the earthquake, but with how he is acting at moment he will lose it for sure . The issue here that he is not trying to change and don’t give a fuck

What’s going on inside his mind ?!

His getting old and also fatigue has set in years ago.

The problem itself none of his opponents are any good.

Which makes the election worse itself.

I really do believe Erdogan is going to call it the quits. The man has been so integral to Turkish politics its hard for many to even think he will leave one day. Maybe I might be naive but Erdogan looks like the guy who will quit one day and call it a day for good.

Has Turkiye even prepared itself for a post Erdogan future.
 

AWP

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Not trying to blame the dead people ( may Allah have mercy on them )

But generally, people do take responsibly on this matter . It’s the client fault to not ask the real estate agent if this unit is earthquake proof or not .

The worst is if a client bought a house and ( he knows ) that it’s not earthquake proof because of higher cost and the low probability of having a earthquake in the life span .

I won’t talk about if the contractor lied to the estate agent or the client cuz that's a different topic
 

Ryder

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Not trying to blame the dead people ( may Allah have mercy on them )

But generally, people do take responsibly on this matter . It’s the client fault to not ask the real estate agent if this unit is earthquake proof or not .

The worst is if a client bought a house and ( he knows ) that it’s not earthquake proof because of higher cost and the low probability of having a earthquake in the life span .

I won’t talk about if the contractor lied to the estate agent or the client cuz that's a different topic

Bro you will never get straight answers from contractors.

Look at the Ford Pinto case. Ford actually knew this car was a flawed design and a ticking time bomb but still allowed the car go into production.

Car's fuel tank was at the back so when a another car hits the back the car explodes. Still with nunerous deaths, Ford got away with it also lied about the car.

Real estates, contractors even the builders. They get these crappy builders who have no qualifications to build their projects then outsource it to cheap labour.

Not just the government is complicit its also easy to trick them when they come for inspection.
 

dBSPL

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Who will build these buildings? Are they all gonna be a few types houses that TOKİ will build with some subcontractors? If that's the case, the cities would look very dull and bland with no character.
TOKI certainly cannot carry this burden alone. Each and every contractor(*who does their job right and fears god) in Turkiye should take part in this work. The real problem in housing construction is not the cost but the size of the job. If you calculate in 4 floor 8-flat, about 50,000 buildings need to be completed in 1 year. This does not include the reconstruction of the countryside and commercial areas.

Remember, there is already a 1 million housing program for low-income citizens in addition to TOKİ's ongoing projects. Moreover, there is a commitment to deliver these houses within 2 years. Moreover, half of the cost of these 1 million houses will be covered by the treasury.

Together with dozens of ongoing projects, this means at least 500,000 housing units by 2024 and nearly 2 million by 2025. To be built by other ministries: Add the thousands of schools, hospitals, public buildings, mosques, cultural and recreational areas, parks and gardens, infrastructure, etc on it.

Even if we consider land costs as 0, all this housing and infrastructure construction alone may require over 10 billion dollars in additional resources. In addition, state banks will need to create appropriate loan packages to finance the need for new buildings that will not be built by the state, are in a slightly damaged condition, or for one reason or another. Also, our country is also struggling with inflation. From building materials to furniture, supply channels need to be completely reorganized and if necessary, some sectors should be banned from export.

But this is not the main cost, commercial activities will need to be revitalized to prevent economic shrinkage in the region and to maintain its population. Thousands of businesses, workshops and even factories have been damaged. Getting them back up and running and rebuilding those that were destroyed is another problem, and there will be dozens of other huge expense items that the treasury will have to deal with directly, such as subsidizing the losses of businesses that have not been operating since the day of the disaster and probably will not be able to operate for some time to come, deferring loan debts, tax and premium amnesties, unemployment allowances, and allocating funds to disaster victims. People lost their homes and jobs. For first year, until they get homes earthquake victims should be provided with the best possible conditions.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to write all this here. I wish we had not lost any of our people and we would have faced twice the cost. But the indirect costs of being caught unprepared for the disaster will be more of a problem than the direct costs. For this reason, I think cost estimates only for the renewal of the building stock are not very realistic. Cumulatively, there will be a huge bill.
 
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Ryder

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People forget how common loopholes can be.

Lets not forget how easy it is to bribe.

I know akp and chp will blame each other. But the belediyes if they are under akp and chp jurisdiction.

It means they gave the greenlight or ignored it.

I doubt a proper investigation will be done.

The thing about getting ready for an earthquake all the resources will be put into Istanbul. While earthquakes can hit any region.

If Istanbul gets hit with a Tsunami the city will be wrecked. Tsunamis can reach 800KMs.

Since Turkiye is not surrounded by oceans I dont think so much damage will be done. As Tsunamis are more deadly with deeper water.

Still Tsunamis can do quite the damage. I went to Thailand with my family for a week I saw warning signs for Tsunami hazard zones. Still disturbed me in a way because the last thing you think of is a natural disaster hitting you.
 

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Mix of greed, corruption and rampant capitalism.

Why capitalism because dont mistake me for a bleeding heart socialist. If you have people putting money before lives we have a big problem.

This encapsulates what I have tried (and often failed) to explain to people (who have turned anti-capitalist in some reactionary way) over many years w.r.t proper capitalism vs rampant.

(In fact IMO, the rampant form stops being capitalism altogether)

i.e there is an important reason why Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" (sometimes considered to be the definitive work w.r.t capitalist philosophy) had as its prequel "The theory of moral sentiments".

A wise, reasoned man always knows that proper capitalism only exists where the morals of the society are well based and secure as possible.

The (classical) Marxists and their close authoritarian-inclined equivalents (be it luddites, fascists, theocrats and still others) all have demonstrably objectified and implemented a radical Hobbesian approach to short circuit this process as fast as possible....which is why these systems have drastically failed (and keep failing, though are often attractive to some populist reactionary to scapegoat or indulge in personal emotional escapism/delusions in any given timeframe).

The evolvement over time into drastically less-honest and less-defined neo-marxist forms (to conflate and merge with neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism) is one of the unfortunate trends picking up this century....as then it becomes simply a zero sum power struggle in the end of might makes right.....which indulges the worst proclivities and tendencies of man, in what can be surmised as "evil" and "corruption".

Unfortunately most people want short easy answers for application of short easy time they have to commit on these deep issues.

This ends up exacerbating the whole thing (especially as new host of challenges pop up as we develop pressures and easy offer of viceful impulses that are anathema to the human collective existence itself that has always relied on and gotten this far on the family structure as the fundamental basis)

I do wonder how human species will get out of this in the end to truly elevate itself....as the best methods are literally staring at us all chomping at the bit (in how we approach preserving what has worked well and changing only what needs to be changed)....but we remain so timid, unwise and fearful to embrace them genuinely.

This in the end is why too many innocent people die in the end (by our own collective hand) than otherwise would have....just like in this earthquake. There is not a proper reckoning yet, there are huge amounts of gaps in our total mind frame and application.

In the end we owe it to them that we will realise such things, life is the most precious yet fragile thing of all.
 

Yasar_TR

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Who will build these buildings? Are they all gonna be a few types houses that TOKİ will build with some subcontractors? If that's the case, the cities would look very dull and bland with no character.
All of the homes that have collapsed or have taken irreparable damage belong to private owners. These people come from different backgrounds. Some owned their homes with their life savings. Some owned them because they were of affluent background; So they could afford to buy them or have them built. All of the owners have partial ownership rights over the lands these buildings were built.
State can not dictate that TOKI or a similar organisation build on these lands. It is up to the individuals to rebuild on the lands they own jointly.
Rebuilding can only be done in line with the correct earthquake legislation. State can however, enforce the type of building technology to be used for specific ground conditions that is most suited.
 

Ryder

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This encapsulates what I have tried (and often failed) to explain to people (who have turned anti-capitalist in some reactionary way) over many years w.r.t proper capitalism vs rampant.

(In fact IMO, the rampant form stops being capitalism altogether)

i.e there is an important reason why Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" (sometimes considered to be the definitive work w.r.t capitalist philosophy) had as its prequel "The theory of moral sentiments".

A wise, reasoned man always knows that proper capitalism only exists where the morals of the society are well based and secure as possible.

The (classical) Marxists and their close authoritarian-inclined equivalents (be it luddites, fascists, theocrats and still others) all have demonstrably objectified and implemented a radical Hobbesian approach to short circuit this process as fast as possible....which is why these systems have drastically failed (and keep failing, though are often attractive to some populist reactionary to scapegoat or indulge in personal emotional escapism/delusions in any given timeframe).

The evolvement over time into drastically less-honest and less-defined neo-marxist forms (to conflate and merge with neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism) is one of the unfortunate trends picking up this century....as then it becomes simply a zero sum power struggle in the end of might makes right.....which indulges the worst proclivities and tendencies of man, in what can be surmised as "evil" and "corruption".

Unfortunately most people want short easy answers for application of short easy time they have to commit on these deep issues.

This ends up exacerbating the whole thing (especially as new host of challenges pop up as we develop pressures and easy offer of viceful impulses that are anathema to the human collective existence itself that has always relied on and gotten this far on the family structure as the fundamental basis)

I do wonder how human species will get out of this in the end to truly elevate itself....as the best methods are literally staring at us all chomping at the bit (in how we approach preserving what has worked well and changing only what needs to be changed)....but we remain so timid, unwise and fearful to embrace them genuinely.

This in the end is why too many innocent people die in the end (by our own collective hand) than otherwise would have....just like in this earthquake. There is not a proper reckoning yet, there are huge amounts of gaps in our total mind frame and application.

In the end we owe it to them that we will realise such things, life is the most precious yet fragile thing of all.

My older brother does civil engineering out of all clients he had he told me Turks and Arabs pissed him off the most.

They kept on ignoring his advice then asked if they can do short cuts why are these materials he needed.

My brother explained it so much not only Turks and Arabs even Greek clients and Indian clients also pissed him off the stories were hilarious if not horrifying. Some even tell him how to do his job.
 
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Anastasius

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Not trying to blame the dead people ( may Allah have mercy on them )

But generally, people do take responsibly on this matter . It’s the client fault to not ask the real estate agent if this unit is earthquake proof or not .

The worst is if a client bought a house and ( he knows ) that it’s not earthquake proof because of higher cost and the low probability of having a earthquake in the life span .

I won’t talk about if the contractor lied to the estate agent or the client cuz that's a different topic
You have to understand that most people have their own problems they need to resolve. They don't really want to think about every little aspect of acquiring living accommodation, they want to place their trust in the fact that the builder, real estate agent or government authority in charge of housing has already accounted for all of these aspects like earthquake-proofing the structure, especially one built in such a volatile zone.

When I buy a car, I shouldn't need to ask the seller if the catalytic converter in it has met EPA standards.
 

Bogeyman 

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FpJ_ZcYXwAA27XA

FpJ_ZcYX0AA2GQG


The Dutch Air Force has announced that they have sent the C-130 transport aircraft to perform an ambulance aircraft mission in Türkiye.
 

B_A

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You have to understand that most people have their own problems they need to resolve. They don't really want to think about every little aspect of acquiring living accommodation, they want to place their trust in the fact that the builder, real estate agent or government authority in charge of housing has already accounted for all of these aspects like earthquake-proofing the structure, especially one built in such a volatile zone.

When I buy a car, I shouldn't need to ask the seller if the catalytic converter in it has met EPA standards.
I think our people cant as patient as Japanese.

lets think in case That are two houses

First one 2M TL riskless,second one 1M but with some risk in great earthquake,

At most time Japanese choose the first (with much loan)and Our people choose the second one and say that s god will

Also,after any earthquake ,Japanese remember that and our people forget that soon.....
 

Nutuk

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I think our people cant as patient as Japanese.

lets think in case That are two houses

First one 2M TL riskless,second one 1M but with some risk in great earthquake,

At most time Japanese choose the first (with much loan)and Our people choose the second one and say that s god will

Also,after any earthquake ,Japanese remember that and our people forget that soon.....

The core case is that house one and two have to be both according to construction rules save.

If it is not it is not the people buying but the state that does not do the proper controls. You cannot build like they do in Turkiye in Japan, they will arrest the constructor and tare down the building before it is finished
 

B_A

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The core case is that house one and two have to be both according to construction rules save.

If it is not it is not the people buying but the state that does not do the proper controls. You cannot build like they do in Turkiye in Japan, they will arrest the constructor and tare down the building before it is finished
Countries run by people
Japanese people are very good obedience
US cant do it even US is far richer and powerful than Japan,every typhoon countless US house destroyed.
We can make the law but i dont think our government or people obey that.

Our people even do not wear a helmet when ride a motorbike......
 

Nutuk

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Obedience you get when rules are enforced.

Take Turkiye for instance every 5 years when there are elections there is announced a general pardon for illegal constructions, criminals get pardon and release from prisons.

And than we expect obedience, yeah right! When you have a country run by morons for 50 years you get what we have. Run Japan 50 years by Turkish politicians, Japan will become like Turkiye
 

Ryder

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Countries run by people
Japanese people are very good obedience
US cant do it even US is far richer and powerful than Japan,every typhoon countless US house destroyed.
We can make the law but i dont think our government or people obey that.

Our people even do not wear a helmet when ride a motorbike......

I saw that in Thailand a lot none of them wear helmets either when riding motorbikes or scooters.

I asked the locals once a lot of them said we dont give a shit.

Its the mentality too.
 

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Another AFAD branch manager has claimed there is no survivors in any of the buildings.

Note: hour 258, another woman rescued alive.

Isn't the motive clear? They are rushing to clean ground, and he also lies, they do touch rumbles with dead bodies inside and not really working hard to rescue corpses.
Has anyone noticed?

These people, at least one, was rescued - noticed during cleansing of the rumbles in Ebrar building complex.
Thanks to the operator who has noticed and followed a space withing the rumbles, he was headed to bedroom of an apartment where one woman, at least, found alive.
So, AFAD has decided cleansing to began in the complex, literally attempting a murder, if the operator was not paying attention at the night time, the survivor would have been long gone.
 

Ryder

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Obedience you get when rules are enforced.

Take Turkiye for instance every 5 years when there are elections there is announced a general pardon for illegal constructions, criminals get pardon and release from prisons.

And than we expect obedience, yeah right! When you have a country run by morons for 50 years you get what we have. Run Japan 50 years by Turkish politicians, Japan will become like Turkiye

Mentality needs to change too.

I remember years ago or a decade ago a little girl fell to her death to the sewers as some prick instead of putting safety signs and a barricade put a piece of cardboard to cover the hole and the girl walked on it.
 

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