TR Air Defence Programs

[Yasar_TR]

Army wants to develop hypervelocity artillery shells for air defense against manned and unmanned aircraft

HVP prototypes should fire from rifled and smooth-bore 155-millimeter cannons, and interface with off-board sensors to intercept the incoming threat.

www.militaryaerospace.com

US Army has pressed the button to use 155mm Hyper Velocity Projectile howitzer rounds for airdefence purposes. They are confident by 2027 they can start testing 8-9 Mach projectiles with a prototype ready for 2028.

Quote:
The HVP for air defense applications seeks to reduce munition costs and enhance the value of wheeled 155-millimeter artillery systems firing HVPs. The HVP prototypes will communicate with off-board sensors that track the HVP and the threat to be intercepted. BAE Systems has developed a hypervelocity projectile for potential naval use.
The HVP prototypes should fire from rifled and smooth-bore 155-millimeter cannons; interface with Army-provided off-board sensors to intercept the incoming threat; interface with a data transmission device to receive pre-launch mission data; maintain projectile maneuverability through interception; keep flight time to a minimum; be powerful enough to shoot down fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters; UAVs; and cruise missiles. Army officials also are interested in rapid ammunition resupply, as well as supportability, safety, and cyber security.
Unquote.

We shouldn’t lose much time and start experimenting on this technology. As with UAV case, we should be in the forefront of the development process .

 

[Kaan Azman]

I'm not very sure about HVP on 155 mm. Yeah it is far cheaper than your daily MRSAM but the fire rate is going to be very, very low. To perform the engagement that a single SAM launcher performs, you would need a whole pack of howitzers. Think of it like using a single shot sniper with big reserve and a semi auto one with smaller reserve in an FPS game.

Naval guns are a different story though. They can fire more rapidly than 155 mm howitzers. Hell, this even makes me reconsider multi-barrel naval guns as you can fire salvos.

 

[Yasar_TR]

HİSAR-O SAMs Replace MIM-23 Hawks in Libya | TURDEF

ASELSAN's more modern HİSAR-O100 systems have replaced Al Watiya Airbase's MIM-23 Hawk medium-range air defence systems.

turdef.com

Turkiye has replaced the old school Hawk SAM systems stationed at Al-Wattiya base in Libya , with Hisar-O 100 AD systems. With dual-pulse motors and much improved seeker heads the Hisar-O missiles bring 21st century technology to the protection of the air base.

 

[Sanchez]

This is being regurgitated for the last few days, but original claim is from last year. We had argued whether a transfer was indeed made or not, which was later refuted. Turns out it was true.

Libya Operations & Updates

I don't know what's going on is this Sanayi ve Savunma reliable source ? Anadolu Agency is a reliable source. Meanwhile, Gabya class frigates are anchored in the port.

defencehub.live

 

[Yasar_TR]

I'm not very sure about HVP on 155 mm. Yeah it is far cheaper than your daily MRSAM but the fire rate is going to be very, very low. To perform the engagement that a single SAM launcher performs, you would need a whole pack of howitzers. Think of it like using a single shot sniper with big reserve and a semi auto one with smaller reserve in an FPS game.

Naval guns are a different story though. They can fire more rapidly than 155 mm howitzers. Hell, this even makes me reconsider multi-barrel naval guns as you can fire salvos.

You are correct. Firing speed is slower. But then again Firtina-1 has a firing mode of 3 shells in 15 seconds with different elevations that allows it to hit same target at the same time. In reality it can fire 3 rounds in 15 seconds. However, the more you fire in succession the quicker you destroy your barrel. US army has asked their technical team to overcome the destructive effect of the quick successive firing and increase the speed of reloads.
127mm naval gun can shoot 32rounds per minute. So that could be the target speed I guess!
But on the up side; an AD battery has in its canisters 6-8 missiles. A howitzer can have 48 to 60 rounds ready to fire successively. Reload of expended shells, also, is faster.
You can also make up for the speed deficiency by using 2 howitzers in tandem.

Firtina

The T-155 Firtina is a 155mm 52 caliber self-propelled howitzer manufactured in Turkey by a consortium of Turkish Defense Companies based on the South Kore

armyrecognition.com

 

[Anmdt]

I'm not very sure about HVP on 155 mm. Yeah it is far cheaper than your daily MRSAM but the fire rate is going to be very, very low. To perform the engagement that a single SAM launcher performs, you would need a whole pack of howitzers. Think of it like using a single shot sniper with big reserve and a semi auto one with smaller reserve in an FPS game.

Naval guns are a different story though. They can fire more rapidly than 155 mm howitzers. Hell, this even makes me reconsider multi-barrel naval guns as you can fire salvos.

Simply because naval cannons have no restriction of space of height and can utilize all means of automatic reloading, cooling. But USN has discarded 155 mm project for naval cannons, as well.

You are correct. Firing speed is slower. But then again Firtina-1 has a firing mode of 3 shells in 15 seconds with different elevations that allows it to hit same target at the same time. In reality it can fire 3 rounds in 15 seconds. However, the more you fire in succession the quicker you destroy your barrel. US army has asked their technical team to overcome the destructive effect of the quick successive firing and increase the speed of reloads.
127mm naval gun can shoot 32rounds per minute. So that could be the target speed I guess!
But on the up side; an AD battery has in its canisters 6-8 missiles. A howitzer can have 48 to 60 rounds ready to fire successively. Reload of expended shells, also, is faster.
You can also make up for the speed deficiency by using 2 howitzers in tandem.

Firtina

The T-155 Firtina is a 155mm 52 caliber self-propelled howitzer manufactured in Turkey by a consortium of Turkish Defense Companies based on the South Kore

armyrecognition.com

Naval cannons have a barrel cooling, and wide space for installation/foundation/dampers. It eases the entire operation, flushing the barrel, cooling non-stop.

 

[Kaan Azman]

USN has discarded 155 mm AGS entirely for CPS missiles, well, sucks for them to miss the opportunity.

Speaking of wear and stuff, I'm sure a hyper-velocity bullet to hit hypersonic speeds is prone to put more heat (metaphorically) on the barrel compared to a conventional round.

To be honest, we should consider DART-like ammunition or ATOM for 127 mm (TF-2000 and Barbaros) and 76 mm naval guns.

 

[Heartbang]

But USN has discarded 155 mm project for naval cannons

USN has discarded 155 mm AGS entirely for CPS missiles, well, sucks for them to miss the opportunity.

...Because they made the ammo for that gun incompatible with regular 155 mm Howitzers.

Then they refused to buy the bloody ammo because it was "too expensive"

There are lessons to be learned here for us.

 

[Sanchez]

...Because they made the ammo for that gun incompatible with regular 155 mm Howitzers.

Then they refused to buy the bloody ammo because it was "too expensive"

There are lessons to be learned here for us.

AGS used a 62 caliber gun to achieve that muzzle velocity and range as LRLAP weighs more than double of a standard 155mm shell. At the time, M109 howitzer used a 39 cal gun. T155 uses a 52 cal gun. There was no possibility to use LRLAP on standard 155mm guns. Cost ballooned because US cancelled most of the Zumwalt class, not because ammo itself was directly expensive.

 

[Heartbang]

AGS used a 62 caliber gun to achieve that muzzle velocity and range as LRLAP weighs more than double of a standard 155mm shell. At the time, M109 howitzer used a 39 cal gun. T155 uses a 52 cal gun. There was no possibility to use LRLAP on standard 155mm guns. Cost ballooned because US cancelled most of the Zumwalt class, not because ammo itself was directly expensive.

"The AGS uses the same 155 mm caliber as most American field artillery forces, although it is unable to fire the same ammunition due to differences in the size and shape of both projectile and firing charges."

Its not a caliber thing.

Advanced Gun System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Afif]

"The AGS uses the same 155 mm caliber as most American field artillery forces, although it is unable to fire the same ammunition due to differences in the size and shape of both projectile and firing charges."

Its not a caliber thing.

Advanced Gun System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gun's length is caliber. That's why other 155mm guns in US army service can't fire LRLAP as pointed out by @Sanchez .

 

[Yasar_TR]

Naval cannons have a barrel cooling, and wide space for installation/foundation/dampers. It eases the entire operation, flushing the barrel, cooling non-stop.

You are correct from heat damage point of view.
But there is also the raw physical damage due to high kinetic energy that is imparted by the round to the barrel lining which effects the wear negatively, as the round leaves the barrel at extreme speeds.
No cooling will have any effect on this type of physical wear. Also higher pressure of propellant will induce wear irrespective of cooling process.

It is important that the rifled lining of the barrel is in good condition. As the round is pushed out by the exploding propellant, it is vital that no gasses are leaking and escaping ahead of the round and decreasing muzzle velocity.
The HVP rounds that BAE Systems have developed are designed such that they are very aerodynamic and consist of a surface that help propel them out of the barrel at very high speeds. Nevertheless due to the high exit speeds, the abrasive forces acting on the barrel lining are so intense that New technologies regarding materials must be developed to increase the lining life.

 

[zio]

If we manage multistatik radar,there will be at least 3 radar one is for active and others are passive,the question is active radar wil have only transmitter modules not reciever ones that gives more room for T modules which gives more power,so this add more capability to detect VLO aircrafts like F35.

 

[Anmdt]

...Because they made the ammo for that gun incompatible with regular 155 mm Howitzers.

Then they refused to buy the bloody ammo because it was "too expensive"

There are lessons to be learned here for us.

Not particularly that but also in earlier times Zumwalt was meant to be that stealth ship conducting shore and territorial bombardment which required those dual 155 mm. And yeah, we are in 21st century now and USN almost shifted whole surface strike capability to the submarine force.

 

[boredaf]

And yeah, we are in 21st century now and USN almost shifted whole surface strike capability to the submarine force.

I wish we could do the same, even the thought alone feels good.

 

[Afif]

Not particularly that but also in earlier times Zumwalt was meant to be that stealth ship conducting shore and territorial bombardment which required those dual 155 mm. And yeah, we are in 21st century now and USN almost shifted whole surface strike capability to the submarine force.

Do you mean ASuW capabilities? Otherwise each DDG and carrier strike wing still carry substantial land attack capabilities, no?

 

[Sanchez]

And here's the Gökdemir(Turkish Nasams) test footage at last.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1823271479477252263

 

[Strong AI]

*record scratch*
*freeze frame*
Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how i ended up in this situation

 

[zio]

Shame on TUSAŞ,we still use bunshee target drone.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Shame on TUSAŞ,we still use bunshee target drone.

They're old, so it makes sense to get rid of them first.
TUSAS is making wonders and some of you are shaming it. Unbelievable!