TR Air Defence Programs

Yasar_TR

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Siper is nowhere close to s400
On paper and with respect to current missile technology you are correct.
But the proposed radar system of Siper will be far ahead of the S400 radar system. It is also a system that is open to upgrades. Siper geometry is open to evolving. There will be versions of it with more range. Same system will be evolved in to anti ballistic missile system.
S400 is predominantly a system developed to target and stop air breathing aircrafts and cruise missiles. (A bit like our Hisar system)
 
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Ravenman

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Are we gonna use the S400 or did we buy it to put it in the museum?

Why dont we hear anything about? Why are there no tests or drills?

Its a shame that our TSK is shitting in their pants for the US.
 

UkroTurk

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Legend of S400 is as same as Pantsir.

İ am %100 sure S400 is useless in 2022!

Our HİSAR-As might be much more capable than S400.

We bought it in order not to lose Russian tourists and tomato market.
 

Ravenman

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We bought it in order not to lose Russian tourists and tomato market.

You serious?

We paid 2.5 billion (we loaned it first from a Russian bank with interest so maybe its 3 billion) and got so much problems, headpain, news coverage, sanctions for nothing?
 

Lool

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Legend of S400 is as same as Pantsir.

İ am %100 sure S400 is useless in 2022!

Our HİSAR-As might be much more capable than S400.

We bought it in order not to lose Russian tourists and tomato market.
You serious?

We paid 2.5 billion (we loaned it first from a Russian bank with interest so maybe its 3 billion) and got so much problems, headpain, news coverage, sanctions for nothing?
The S400 has the longest kill ever made at 150 km+ in the current Ukraine-Russia war
The problem is that Turkey doesnt have enough of such systems nor local missile production for it to be at its most lethal level. It is a good system; however, we did buy it to piss off the US and it was worth it. They need to know that Turkey isnt a bloody slave
 

Bmx98

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Are we gonna use the S400 or did we buy it to put it in the museum?

Why dont we hear anything about? Why are there no tests or drills?

Its a shame that our TSK is shitting in their pants for the US.
As far as i have understood, like most of Turkey's foreign system purchases, the s400 purchase was done as a direct counter-move to a Greek purchase, specifically the s300. So I believe that they will use the same tactics, meaning leave it aside in the hangars and not use it actively but only use it if shit really goes down (Turkiye-Greece war). Until then, both countries will rely on NATO AD systems for active use, with Turkiye having a clear advantage on this field as its main AD system will be the locally produced Hisar systems while Greece will have to rely on US supplied systems.
 

Combat-Master

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HISAR-A+ in service
1655643461025.png
 

Brokengineer

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You serious?

We paid 2.5 billion (we loaned it first from a Russian bank with interest so maybe its 3 billion) and got so much problems, headpain, news coverage, sanctions for nothing?
Of course, it is not for nothing. It is a message to the west that we use any means to acquire for what we need.
Tukiye left without a dome and s400 became a necessity. There is not any proof of s400 is useless. From pansir example you cannot say it does not work.
Worst seemed outcome of acquiring s400s is exclusion from f35 programme which is not that bad given Mr Karakuş' statements.
No country can service and modify fighter and have control of f35's logistics.
F35's can only operate with the password coming from pentagon.
Those are the worst things that Turkiye would have when you have a US as so called ally.
The ecomics of having f35 is another problem as well. Thats why Brits cancelled most of their f35 orders.
 

I_Love_F16

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Of course, it is not for nothing. It is a message to the west that we use any means to acquire for what we need.
Tukiye left without a dome and s400 became a necessity. There is not any proof of s400 is useless. From pansir example you cannot say it does not work.
Worst seemed outcome of acquiring s400s is exclusion from f35 programme which is not that bad given Mr Karakuş' statements.
No country can service and modify fighter and have control of f35's logistics.
F35's can only operate with the password coming from pentagon.
Those are the worst things that Turkiye would have when you have a US as so called ally.
The ecomics of having f35 is another problem as well. Thats why Brits cancelled most of their f35 orders.

Then why did Turkiye enter in the F-35 project in the first place ?
 

Huelague

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Then why did Turkiye enter in the F-35 project in the first place ?
We learned much about 5.generation fighter jet producement. Which helped us in our TFX project. Second, production share gave our defense industry huge value amount. F-35 is still a formidable plane. Especially in the hand of USA.
 

Yasar_TR

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Of course, it is not for nothing. It is a message to the west that we use any means to acquire for what we need.
Tukiye left without a dome and s400 became a necessity. There is not any proof of s400 is useless. From pansir example you cannot say it does not work.
Worst seemed outcome of acquiring s400s is exclusion from f35 programme which is not that bad given Mr Karakuş' statements.
No country can service and modify fighter and have control of f35's logistics.
F35's can only operate with the password coming from pentagon.
Those are the worst things that Turkiye would have when you have a US as so called ally.
The ecomics of having f35 is another problem as well. Thats why Brits cancelled most of their f35 orders.
A lot of rights and a lot of wrongs as well.
1. S400 is not a bad system. It will bring down planes that are quite far away. But it is not really ours. It can not be incorporated in to our AD system. As a stand alone and export version system, it is limited in capability. Since the decision was taken to build our own indigenous AD system, buying S400 from Russians was a quandary.
2. F35 is one of the best planes around. It has ground braking technologies on board. It taught us so much that it can not be explained in words. It is a flying computer. But it is an expensive plane. Flight hour cost is high. Some of the technologies it has are still classified. Like the paint or certain parts that have to be sent back to US when taken off the plane. Turkey was to become a maintenance and repair centre for these planes. But still classified technologies regime would be in effect.
3. No! F35 is not controlled by Pentagon. They don’t need to control these planes. All they need to do is stop supplying you parts. Then the planes become junk.
During the first few planes delivered to British Airforce, there were teething problems with the ALIS system. This was the size of a small lap top that contained the flight schedule of the plane that needed to be inserted in to the cockpit with a set codes per each plane. Sometimes this code would not work and the British pilots had to contact Lockheed Martin (not pentagon) to obtain the unlocking code to fly the plane. Also the sensitive flight information that was conveyed to LM, was questioned by most international users. So the whole ALIS system was abandoned and replaced with a new more discreet and international friendly ODIN system.
4. UK were buying the most expensive version of this plane; F35B. The carrier version.
At 120+million pounds each they were very expensive. Their upkeep costs due to sea worthiness was prohibitively expensive. So instead of buying 48 planes per carrier they halved it to 24 planes per carrier. I think they put the purchase of the F35A version on the back burner for the time being.
5. Yes the F35 is an expensive plane to run. But more importantly for a country like us that is manufacturing it’s own weapons, it would have become far too expensive. Since we were not given the source codes of these planes, we would be stuck with US weapons. Or pay millions per each weapon to have our weapons integrated on to these planes like the SOM-J exercise. Then US would know the characteristics of our weapons and could easily pass it on to …….
 

TheInsider

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F-35 is a deal-breaker. According to Singapore MoD F-35 can only be operated for 3 months without getting supplies from the US.

All of the modernized AAA gun batteries will get a single Hisar-A+ truck-based launcher.
Some amount of autonomous Hisar-A+ systems(the picture above) will be delivered to the armored corps
Hisar-A+ FOC is declared, Hisar-O+ soon. Hisar-RF and Hisar-RF with booster (It is called either Siper Block-0 or Siper Block-1 depending on how you name it) will be available by the end of this year. So there will be an early availability window for Siper Airdefense System. Serial production of Hisar-A+/O+ is going on at a great pace.
 
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Trakya_forever

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45 (armored) + 45(truck mounted) systems were delivered as far as I remember. Armored ones were cancelled after a small amount of deliveries. However, truck mounted ones are being produced for KKK. Also 4 batteries HİSAR O+ for KKK as well. However, I am not completely sure. @TheInsider can illuminate us much better.

Air Force is waiting for HİSAR RF I think. They will get more than 10 batteries.
 

TheInsider

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Orders of the armored version are massively cut but it will still be produced for armored corps. The truck version will be used with modernized AAA cannon batteries. 3x modernized AAA cannon 1x fire control vehicle and 1x Hisar-A+ truck version. So rather than having Hisar-A+ batteries with 3x truck-based launchers, land forces will have 3x modernized AAA cannons+ and a single Hisar-A+ launcher. So overall orders of the Hisar-A+ are cut but it will still be utilized. Hisar-A+ launcher pods on the truck can also be changed with Hisar-O+ launcher pods.

ASELSAN-AIC-ve-Modernizeli-%C3%87ekili-Top.jpg
 
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