TR Air Defence Programs

[Merzifonlu]

Re : our purchase of Patriot : US offer was too expensive and contained no real TOT. (Mind you we don’t really know if the current S400 deal contains any real TOT either)

The Americans made an extremely expensive offer because they did not actually want to sell the Patriot air defense system. Former US President Trump admitted this.

 

[rainmaker]

I tought turkey would be hesitant to export air defence systems. We seen how hesitant the US has been when it comes to exporting their defence systems. Hisar looks good and if its open to export to non-strategic countries then it has huge potential. Most countries around the world lack defence systems.

Ties with Turkey finding new turfs

Coming out of past diplomatic rows, Bangladesh and Turkey are deepening relations as the latter seeks to regain its position in the Muslim world, while Dhaka looks for strong allies on the global stage to resolve the Rohingya crisis and boost trade, analysts have said.

www.thedailystar.net

Turkey and Bangladesh see each other as strategic allies. BD is looking at Turkey to be its main source for armaments.

BD has never taken any anti-Turkey position in its history. During the WW1 Indian Muslim soldiers mutinied and then got mass-executed because they didn't want to fight the Ottomans. During 1923 Indian Muslims donated their gold to the Turkish Republic. During the TRNC crisis only BD and PK recognized TRNC against pressure from the entire world.

Why wouldn't Turkey sell BD strategic arms? This part of the world has literally given their blood for Turkey both past and present.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Ties with Turkey finding new turfs

Coming out of past diplomatic rows, Bangladesh and Turkey are deepening relations as the latter seeks to regain its position in the Muslim world, while Dhaka looks for strong allies on the global stage to resolve the Rohingya crisis and boost trade, analysts have said.

www.thedailystar.net

Turkey and Bangladesh see each other as strategic allies. BD is looking at Turkey to be its main source for armaments.

BD has never taken any anti-Turkey position in its history. During the WW1 Indian Muslim soldiers mutinied and then got mass-executed because they didn't want to fight the Ottomans. During 1923 Indian Muslims donated their gold to the Turkish Republic. During the TRNC crisis only BD and PK recognized TRNC against pressure from the entire world.

Why wouldn't Turkey sell BD strategic arms? This part of the world has literally given their blood for Turkey both past and present.

Yh i believe turkey and bangladesh can boost their current ties with more deals and trade. Offcourse if we see it from historis perspective then turkey and bangladesh can become strategic partners. I think its a little bit early to call them strategic at this point. If i remember right turkey withdraw their ambassador in bangladesh in 2016 over some issues ( dont remember why). But i hope and think they could become strategic partners like turkey have with azerbaijan and pakistan. Lets hope hisar will be exported soon! Lets keep the thread to the topic of air defence systems...

 

[rainmaker]

If i remember right turkey withdraw their ambassador in bangladesh in 2016 over some issues ( dont remember why).

Bangladesh had a troublesome Islamist party named Jamat-e-Islami. They couldn't win any votes above 5-10% but played a negative role in radicalizing the people through propaganda. The current ruling secular-nationalist party Awami League came into power in 2009 and used their controversial role in opposing Bangladesh's independence to hang their leaders.

I think after the 2016 "FETO" episode Erdogan understood that some self-styled "Islamic" groups need to be destroyed for the health of the country. BD supported the government during and after the coup attempt, so relations are back on track.

 

[Combat-Master]

Ties with Turkey finding new turfs

Coming out of past diplomatic rows, Bangladesh and Turkey are deepening relations as the latter seeks to regain its position in the Muslim world, while Dhaka looks for strong allies on the global stage to resolve the Rohingya crisis and boost trade, analysts have said.

www.thedailystar.net

Turkey and Bangladesh see each other as strategic allies. BD is looking at Turkey to be its main source for armaments.

BD has never taken any anti-Turkey position in its history. During the WW1 Indian Muslim soldiers mutinied and then got mass-executed because they didn't want to fight the Ottomans. During 1923 Indian Muslims donated their gold to the Turkish Republic. During the TRNC crisis only BD and PK recognized TRNC against pressure from the entire world.

Why wouldn't Turkey sell BD strategic arms? This part of the world has literally given their blood for Turkey both past and present.

Not just selling arms, Turkey should support technological growth as well and Bangladesh should have capable companies to which offset production can be supported.

What is the current status of Bangladesh's arms/tech industry?

 

[rainmaker]

Not just selling arms, Turkey should support technological growth as well and Bangladesh should have capable companies to which offset production can be supported.

What is the current status of Bangladesh's arms/tech industry?

The Bangladesh arms industry is in its absolute infancy. Some military-owned factories manufacture small arms and ammunition under license, and assemble some vehicles. Bangladesh doesn't have any indigenous design for any arms as far as I know.

However the government has recently started to push for defence manufacturing. As part of the process, recently the military-owned Bangladesh Ordinance Factory signed a contract with the Turkish firm Repkon to manufacture artillery shells. For the next 5 years, we will probably see Bangladeshi firms expanding manufacturing of defence products under license.

If everything goes well, after that the Bangladesh defence industry will move up the value chain with the support of the Turkish defence industry.

 

[Turko]

Why wouldn't Turkey sell BD strategic arms?

Is there any evidence Turkey hesitates selling weapons to Bangladesh?
Nobody here told it.

 

[The Qonqueror]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436706740020649993

 

[The Qonqueror]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436706740020649993

Roketsan Chairman of the Board Prof. Dr. Faruk Yiğit: 'There are systems that are not talked about at the moment. Maybe when SİPER is delivered, you will see that we have covered all layers with national systems."

 

[Saithan]

EDR News

Roketsan air defence: from Sungur to Levent​

23/08/2021 GBAD, HERIKKS, IDEF 2021, Kirpi, Levent, Roketsan, Sungur, Turkey
By Paolo Valpolini

At IDEF 2021 the Roketsan stand was full of premières, one of them being the Levent, a new missile system aimed at providing the Turkish Navy with a close-in-weapon system capable to defeat various types of threats and to be embarked on light vessels, such as the Turkish-Type Fast Attack Craft (FAC), which two-years development contract was signed in August 2020, delivery of the first-of-class being scheduled 30 months after completion of the design phase.



The one-third model of the Levent launcher, which can host 21 missiles, was exhibited nearby the Sungur turret installed on a BMC Kirpi 4×4 vehicle, this latter system being in the very last phase of qualification. With an 8 km maximum range and a 4 km maximum altitude, the Sungur is a lock-on-before-launch missile fitted with an Imaging Infra-Red seeker. Powered by a two-stage solid propellant rocket motor, it is fitted with an HE partial piercing warhead and can destroy targets at a minimum distance of 500 meters.



The automatic target tracking has a ±40° field of view, which allows good coverage in order to acquire the target and lock the missile IIR seeker before it is launched. The Sungur will be integrated with the HERIKKS-VI (Hava savunma ERken İkaz ve Komuta Kontrol Sistemi) air defence early warning command and control system developed by Aselsan and in use by the Turkish Land Forces.

The Sungur will be deployed by Land Forces, but its use is not limited to GBAD, Roketsan envisaging also to use it from on board UAVs, as well as for naval purposes.



To this end, the Sungur could be seen fitted into the model launcher of the Levent, which will therefore be capable to use two different missiles, depending on the type of target and on the intercept range, the 8 km Sungur and the new Levent missile, which is still in the concept design phase, according to Roketsan officials. It will definitely be a bigger missile than the Sungur, will work at high supersonic speed, and will have a greater range and a wider envelop, however no more data were delivered due to the early state of development. According to released information Levent will feature manual, semi-automatic and fully automatic modes, and will be able to operate autonomously or in integration with the vessel’s sensor systems. The missile will leverage the R&D work carried out in seeker heads, RF sensors, proximity sensors, etc, and will include many subsystems developed in earlier air defence projects.
Photos courtesy Roketsan and P. Valpolini

Roketsan air defence: from Sungur to Levent - EDR Magazine

By Paolo Valpolini At IDEF 2021 the Roketsan stand was full of premières, one of them being the Levent, a

www.edrmagazine.eu

 

[TheInsider]

Unfortunately, 550 cm is not even 'barely' quadpackable, you might have checked Mk41's width and divide it by two, in fact you were supposed to check maximum canister width which is 700~ to 750~ mm.
To be quadpackable they should first fit the missile in a canister of 300 mm, or even

550mm is the length of the wingspan and it is quadpackable. The diameter without the wings is similar to ESSM.

 

[Anmdt]

550mm is the length of the wingspan and it is quadpackable. The diameter without the wings is similar to ESSM.

"Theoretically", any missile can be quad-packed if the wings are folded the question is can they fold the wings, have they conducted any research on that? While ESSM is 254mm exactly, the numbers on Hisar is still doubtful to be in range of 250-300, and we are talking about an application where a centimeter matters.

Check the MICA from your picture, it can not be quad-packed despite of being much narrower compared to Hisar, for example while CAMM can.

 

[Lonewolf]

"Theoretically", any missile can be quad-packed if the wings are folded the question is can they fold the wings, have they conducted any research on that? While ESSM is 254mm exactly, the numbers on Hisar is still doubtful to be in range of 250-300, and we are talking about an application where a centimeter matters.

Check the MICA from your picture, it can not be quad-packed despite of being much narrower compared to Hisar, for example while CAMM can.

Don't you guys feel it being a overweight or the range being understated too much .

For eg barak 8 use dual pulse ,have a range of 100 km and weight at 275 kg . Diameter is 225 mm , length is 4.5 meter almost

 

[Ecderha]

550mm is the length of the wingspan and it is quadpackable. The diameter without the wings is similar to ESSM.

"Data Link" ="Veri Bağlantısı" ?! is it wrong?

No offense, but Why above data is not written on native language or I am just asking too much?
This is something which I would like to know/understand. I mean I am seen this pattern often, like half Turkçe/english language.
Is it something related to news reporter writings or else?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Don't you guys feel it being a overweight or the range being understated too much .

For eg barak 8 use dual pulse ,have a range of 100 km and weight at 275 kg . Diameter is 225 mm , length is 4.5 meter almost

Yes. Range being a bit conservative.
Barak 8 is a dual stage missile; It has a big booster. Then the dual pulse motor. I think the actual flight speed is a bit lower too.

Barak 8 Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com

The Barak 8 is a naval air defense missile system, jointly developed by India and Israel. Design of the Barak 8 is loosely based on the previous Barak 1 missile. Though it uses a more advanced seeker and has extended range.

www.military-today.com

 

[Lonewolf]

The barak 8 version with booster has a range of 150 km , i am talking of base variant which india and Israel uses as of now ,that too have 100 km now (increased from 70 km of past)

Yes. Range being a bit conservative.
Barak 8 is a dual stage missile; It has a big booster. Then the dual pulse motor. I think the actual flight speed is a bit lower too.

Barak 8 Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com

The Barak 8 is a naval air defense missile system, jointly developed by India and Israel. Design of the Barak 8 is loosely based on the previous Barak 1 missile. Though it uses a more advanced seeker and has extended range.

www.military-today.com

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

This image showing Hisar O can use link 16 to communicate with E-7 Wedgetail.
Source : https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capab...isaro-medium-range-air-defense-missile-system

so relations are back on track.

relations reached new heights after Turkish FM visited BD to support us in the Rohingya Crisis.

 

[Spook]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438072612043649025

We can do similar concept aside from Hisar-A with Goktug family

Multibillion dollar M113 Modernization Market
NASAMS is pretty attractive in the market for countries wanting to modernize their short-medium range AD systems
System requires much less infrastructure, simpler mechanism.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The barak 8 version with booster has a range of 150 km , i am talking of base variant which india and Israel uses as of now ,that too have 100 km now (increased from 70 km of past)

According to this. It’s range was 70km. It was extended to 100km. But doesn’t say how.
Quote:
The Barak 8 is a 275 kg missile with a 225 mm diameter (the booster is 540 mm wide), a fin span of 940 mm, and a length of 4.5 m. It is propelled by a two-stage smokeless pulsed rocket motor with a thrust-vectoring nozzle, allowing a flight speed of Mach 2, a range of 70 km, and an engagement ceiling of 16 km, and carries a 60 kg HE-FRAG warhead. Later the range was reportedly increased to 100 km.
Unquote.
The only explanation I can give is that ;
Hisar-O actually travels at 4 Mach. So uses more fuel quicker. Too conservative specs. Still needs tweaking!
Barak 8 is manufactured so that it is lighter. Hence carries more fuel. It is a next generation missile. So should be more efficient. According to the sites it does have a booster section. Albeit not as large as the ER version.

Barak 8 Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com

The Barak 8 is a naval air defense missile system, jointly developed by India and Israel. Design of the Barak 8 is loosely based on the previous Barak 1 missile. Though it uses a more advanced seeker and has extended range.

www.military-today.com

This site too says it is 50-70km range

Barak 8 (missile)

Barak 8 (the Hebrew word for Lightning) is an Indo-Israeli surface-to-air missile (SAM), designed to defend against aircraft, anti-ship missiles, and UAVs. In January 2007, after several months of intense negotiations, India and Israel signed a US$330 million deal to co-develop an all new...

military.wikia.org

Extended range missile reaches 150km. Recently tested. Has a bigger booster section.
Quote:
Barak 8ER is a version with a maximum range of 150 km. Letters "ER" in the designation denote the "Extended Range". This missile comes with a larger booster and is 6 m long opposed to 4.5 m of a standard Barak 8. Some sources report that Azerbaijan operates this extended range system.
Unquote.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Hisar O+ which one ?
IIR or RF ?
Is the range and altitude of both missiles same ?

Good question!
I too would like to know 100%, the true range of these missiles.
Mr I Demir said that Hisar A & O are now upgraded to A+ & O+.
There is also a RF version with extended altitude and range.
A lot of range figures are flying up in the air. But the truth is that the range figure of 25km that Mr Demir keeps mentioning is for the missile at it’s highest altitude. If the altitude is less, then the range will be much longer.
My understanding is for the IIR version at highest altitude of 10km the range is 25km. But with the RF version this is 40km at 15km altitude.
But these values seem very reserved and conservative. Why produce this high tech and fast missile system if you are not going to better the Hawk system it is going to replace?