TR Air Defence Programs

[Bogeyman]

I am sorry but if you have a friend that gives information like that casually and an electronic warfare officer, the person should be discharged. Additionally giving such information to prove a point is not acceptable even if it is harmless in order to prevent encouraging similar future behavior. Every information provided in the forum should be open source and even some of the open sources should be limited. If you find a valuable insight, don't share it.

I'm sorry, my friend, but two words of information have no intelligence value. I have not shared state secrets in detail here. If the USA is so curious, it can easily gather the intelligence it wants with its satellites and ISR planes. They don't need my 2 words for that. Other than that, this is a forum. So we should have a right to talk about gossip here.

Apart from that, if they can't foresee more than 2 words I said in their intelligence analysis, then I don't think there is any need for them to do this job.

 

[Spook]

I'm sorry, my friend, but two words of information have no intelligence value. I have not shared state secrets in detail here. If the USA is so curious, it can easily gather the intelligence it wants with its satellites and ISR planes. They don't need my 2 words for that. Other than that, this is a forum. So we should have a right to talk about gossip here.

Apart from that, if they can't foresee more than 2 words I said in their intelligence analysis, then I don't think there is any need for them to do this job.

I said even if it is harmless. It still should not be done to encourage future behavior. Two words, next time someone else shares text, next time photos, next time actively IDing locations. Osint is part of intelligence gathering. Forums are used for gathering insights. It is problematic when forum turns to an possible crowdsourcing platform. Annotation of difficult to find sources even in the clearnet because of language barrier, active translations, insights etc. can become problematic. It is not an overreaction, just have to keep in mind as a community when sharing. It is the internet age.

 

[Bogeyman]

View attachment 35898

I said even if it is harmless. It still should not be done to encourage future behavior. Two words, next time someone else shares text, next time photos, next time actively IDing locations. Osint is part of intelligence gathering. Forums are used for gathering insights. It is problematic when forum turns to an possible crowdsourcing platform. Annotation of difficult to find sources even in the clearnet because of language barrier, active translations, insights etc. can become problematic. It is not an overreaction, just have to keep in mind as a community when sharing. It is the internet age.

The friends in front of me are aware that if they speak more than 2 words, the police special operations will come to their door at 5 am. So you worry unnecessarily. In the meantime, the profiles of our friends are constantly monitored by the MIT.

Everyone has their own surveillance team, be it the SSB, the MIT or the Ministry of National Defense. And they are always on alert.

When İbrahim Sünnetçi said that the HIZIR - Torpedo Countermeasure System for Surface Ships could mix DM2A4 torpedoes, both the MIT and the SSB had her twitter account closed. These things are not as simple as you think.

 

[Spook]

The friends in front of me are aware that if they speak more than 2 words, the police special operations will come to their door at 5 am. So you worry unnecessarily. In the meantime, the profiles of our friends are constantly monitored by the MIT.

Everyone has their own surveillance team, be it the SSB, the MIT or the Ministry of National Defense. And they are always on alert.

When İbrahim Sünnetçi said that the HIZIR - Torpedo Countermeasure System for Surface Ships could mix DM2A4 torpedoes, both the MIT and the SSB had her twitter account closed. These things are not as simple as you think.

He wrote about Gezgin too and they likely told him to delete tweets as he was posting detailed insights and making analysis. He is an industry veteran, one of the first defense journalists. We can point that he did not expect such response as with the harmless intention. Similar can be said for tweeting, or forums. It is main point I am trying to make. Harmless intention, sharing non-important information can turn to a problem with active community, it is still online and we use usernames. People share without knowing consequences. There is still lack of accountability. Tracking down individuals just by their username handles is costly processes and unless it is a harmful, dangerous behavior. Most of the time is not worth spending resources.

 

[Bogeyman]

He wrote about Gezgin too and they likely told him to delete tweets as he was posting detailed insights and making analysis. He is an industry veteran, one of the first defense journalists. We can point that he did not expect such response as with the harmless intention. Similar can be said for tweeting, or forums. It is main point I am trying to make. Harmless intention, sharing non-important information can turn to a problem with active community, it is still online and we use usernames. People share without knowing consequences. There is still lack of accountability. Tracking down individuals just by their username handles is costly processes and unless it is a harmful, dangerous behavior. Most of the time is not worth spending resources.

Except for the disclosure I made for the TF-6000, I just shared without going into specific details. At least that's what I can say for myself. My posts were never long enough to be 1 article or create 1 paragraph.
Again, I mostly shared the academic publications of people who specialized in certain subjects in Turkey. It's not that hard to access them either.
I did not disclose top-secret information. I, just made heavy use of open source intelligence. Which is something that anyone who approaches this subject meticulously can do. Again, the average intelligence analyst should carefully follow the patents of critical defense industry companies. It is possible for anyone to find something by searching for keywords on social media

You can't blame me for making their job easier. Because if a piece of information (I'm talking about academic publications) is too valuable to be shared, even its article should not be published. Even a patent document should not be issued in his name.
For gossip, I always told in vague directions and casually. Intelligence agencies want to know specific details, not rough words. We've all seen how a member asks specific questions here. This is a good example for all of us.

Why should the man try to find out the details that he can see himself, from here? It has no protein value.

 

[Bogeyman]

İsmail Demir;
"Turkey decided to buy S400...
.......This is a strategy, a decision and it has a consequence, we will see the pros and cons of the outcome. A determination will eventually bring us a joint production opportunity, we will have our self-sufficiency tested, and our air defense systems will reach a certain level."

Türk savunma sanayisi 'havada' gücüne güveniyor

Cumhurbaşkanlığı Savunma Sanayii Başkanı Demir, Türk savunma sanayisinin Hava Kuvvetlerinin yeteneklerini en üst seviyede tutmak için çalışmalarını sürdürdüğünü bildirdi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

İsmail Demir repeatedly says joint production. He says strategic gains. I don't get the impression that we're going to produce truck wheels from here.

 

[Deliorman]

All you guys do is to trust impressions and your feelings while we haven't heard nothing concrete yet. No facts, no real info put on the table.

Just rumors, impressions and feelings is all your bosses in AKP offer these days... Just fairytales and promises of a better tomorrow for the people and nothing else.

The S400 deal is a HUGE fiasco that brings only negatives to Turkey and absolutely no gains. With HISAR, SIPER and other programs of Turkey running so well and providing results so fast it is just funny that you guys still try to paint a SHIT in gold and offer it to the masses as something amazing.

 

[Fighter_35]

All you guys do is to trust impressions and your feelings while we haven't heard nothing concrete yet. No facts, no real info put on the table.

Just rumors, impressions and feelings is all your bosses in AKP offer these days... Just fairytales and promises of a better tomorrow for the people and nothing else.

The S400 deal is a HUGE fiasco that brings only negatives to Turkey and absolutely no gains. With HISAR, SIPER and other programs of Turkey running so well and providing results so fast it is just funny that you guys still try to paint a SHIT in gold and offer it to the masses as something amazing.

This people will say that thx to s-400 we produced siper system to save face!! That know that they failed big time but still trying to find an excuse for this failure!!

 

[Deliorman]

If tomorrow the Reis decides to get rid of the S-400s you will see how all of a sudden the paid trolls and media prostitutes will start screaming how trash the system is and how it was the right decision to dump it. I hope that they at least make some money from moving their asses left and right like belly dancers trying to justify every stupid decision AKP makes because if they do it out of blind belief... then they must be either crazy or very naive/stupid.

This people will say that thx to s-400 we produced siper system to save face!! That know that they failed big time but still trying to find an excuse for this failure!!

 

[Anastasius]

İsmail Demir;
"Turkey decided to buy S400...
.......This is a strategy, a decision and it has a consequence, we will see the pros and cons of the outcome. A determination will eventually bring us a joint production opportunity, we will have our self-sufficiency tested, and our air defense systems will reach a certain level."

Türk savunma sanayisi 'havada' gücüne güveniyor

Cumhurbaşkanlığı Savunma Sanayii Başkanı Demir, Türk savunma sanayisinin Hava Kuvvetlerinin yeteneklerini en üst seviyede tutmak için çalışmalarını sürdürdüğünü bildirdi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

İsmail Demir repeatedly says joint production. He says strategic gains. I don't get the impression that we're going to produce truck wheels from here.

Not surprising, one of the cited reasons for why Turkey didn't want the US offer for the Patriots was because Turkey also wanted a tech transfer and the US, having learned from bitter experience that doing tech transfers results in knock-offs competing with your goods on the international market, refused. Now, I doubt it was the only reason but it would explain the decision to go for the S-400. Presumably Russia didn't have the same objections as the US did, since everyone and their grandma has been manufacturing Russian knock-off hardware since the Soviet Union first became a superpower.

Mind you, it was still an astoundingly stupid decision since being a part of the F-35 program and getting several dozen of those things and buying regular Patriots without a tech transfer would've been a much better long-term decision for Turkey's aerial capabilities than screwing everything for the S-400 and the possibility of a tech transfer, which I have no doubt the Russians will be holding out on anyway since they are direct military rivals with Turkey.

But hey, what's done is done. Maybe the next administration will attempt to rectify those mistakes.

 

[what]

Any news on the Turkish Pantsir that was announced not to long ago?

 

[the]

Not surprising, one of the cited reasons for why Turkey didn't want the US offer for the Patriots was because Turkey also wanted a tech transfer and the US, having learned from bitter experience that doing tech transfers results in knock-offs competing with your goods on the international market, refused. Now, I doubt it was the only reason but it would explain the decision to go for the S-400. Presumably Russia didn't have the same objections as the US did, since everyone and their grandma has been manufacturing Russian knock-off hardware since the Soviet Union first became a superpower.

Mind you, it was still an astoundingly stupid decision since being a part of the F-35 program and getting several dozen of those things and buying regular Patriots without a tech transfer would've been a much better long-term decision for Turkey's aerial capabilities than screwing everything for the S-400 and the possibility of a tech transfer, which I have no doubt the Russians will be holding out on anyway since they are direct military rivals with Turkey.

But hey, what's done is done. Maybe the next administration will attempt to rectify those mistakes.

There's not much the next administration can do. Turkey has effectively been removed from the F35 programme and that includes the procurement of the fighters and the profits and experienced gained by the Turkish defence industry. Furthermore, it seems like in the next 5 -8 years Turkey will have the know-how to produce its own long range missile systems - i.e. Siper and its variants. So it would seem quite pointless to purchase Patriots (other than the political gain).

It will take a while but in the next decade or so Turkey should have the capability to produce advanced systems - whether that is missle, fighter jet or even submarine/naval related. Of course there should be some sort of stopgap solution but for the most part the end goal would be domestic technologies.

 

[Yasar_TR]

All very well about Turkey being self sufficient in her defence industry etc. But let us not forget that because we have joint development and production programs with the western companies, -be it, radar systems, F35 parts production, Jet engine parts, missile system development and part production, - do we have the access to latest technical gains in these fields.
If we cut the umbilical cord that feeds this knowledge input, we would soon rely on our own R&D only, and start losing touch with the latest and current gains in defence tech. So it is important to keep your foot in. But it has to be done so that we are not fully reliant on it.

 

[mulj]

good news, it seems Siper is on fast track

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463093580558487561

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/SSDergilik

I Demir has announced that 2021 will be closed with another Siper test. Also Hisar O+ systems are now in their delivery stage.
That means; Sungur, A+ and O+ missile systems will be fully operational at the hands of TSK. Come next year , Siper will make the initial layered air defence closer to complete.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Fuat Oktay: "Land based firing tests of the (MIDAS) vertical launch system will be carried out in 2022."

 

[Stuka]

Information about HISAR-O+

12.07.2021

HİSAR-O+ Mass Production Contract Signed​

The HİSAR-O+ serial production contract was signed between the Presidency of Defense Industries and the ASELSAN-Roketsan partnership.
Deliveries will be completed by 2024.

26.11.2021

Vice President Fuat OKTAY announced that the deliveries of the HİSAR-O+ Medium Altitude Air Defense Missile with the IIR seeker title
will be completed in 2022.


> Since the Hisar-O+ System Contract runs till 2024, it is safe to assume sometime in late 2022 the production will shift to RF Guided Missiles which will be integrated in the same Hisar-O+ systems.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1464680971521994757

Hisar A+ delivery has been completed.

 

[Lool]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1464680971521994757

Hisar A+ delivery has been completed.

How many units of Hisar A+ did the army recieve for it to be completed in a year?

 

[Saithan]

How many units of Hisar A+ did the army recieve for it to be completed in a year?

Excellent question, I am not sure we're going to find out, but we know at least 1 has been delivered.