TR Air Defence Programs

Zafer

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Signing of preliminary definition process has been completed on SAMP -T project. As there are no political bottlenecks the procedure is ongoing, final stage of which is to building an air defence system by the participant partners.
It would be fantastic to have a good info-graphics that shows where each potential element of our future air defense system functions. I guess nobody has the full picture yet (?)
 
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I am not sure if the same principles apply to that case but MKEK managed to pull off very high quality barrel with special coating and manufacturing technique for the MPT-76 that is the best barrel for its class according to Can Yazici.

While the barrel have 15.000 rounds stated barrel life they tested one that is on 20.000 rounds and managed to achieve 3.5 MOA dispersion while the standard for the European made barrels is 4.0 MOA for 5000 rounds.

As I said I am not sure if the same principles apply to the scale of a CIWS barrel and high caliber but if so that is huge potential.
Replacing barrel every 5000 wouldn't be big deal if the lifespan was 5k.
Phalanx has 1000 round and it is for 10 engagement. 50 engamement means the ship will be attacked by 50 AShM which is impossible:)
 
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Signing of preliminary definition process has been completed on SAMP -T project. As there are no political bottlenecks the procedure is ongoing, final stage of which is to building an air defence system by the participant partners.
Up up up. İ took my pop-corn and watching.
 

what

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Signing of preliminary definition process has been completed on SAMP -T project. As there are no political bottlenecks the procedure is ongoing, final stage of which is to build an air defence system by the participant partners.

Good news if true. But someone needs to help me with where this fits in between our self-developed systems and S400.
 

dustdevil

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İ appreciate your afford, your drawing a great job but why don't we go for SM-2 fuselage which is larger, so that it'd give more range. Nonetheless larger seeker space could enable to use simpler sensors.
How many km range could g40- ER version intercept? App 70-80km while larger SM-2 equivalent could reach likely 150km. Moreover in future we could transform larger structure into SM-6 and SM-3 variants. I dunno Americans know their shit better.
SM sized missiles consume full cell of VLS containers, are heavy and probably more expensive. For ships with not enough VLS cells (like 16 cell I class) the number is not enough if SM&G40 combination is used. I don’t want to shoot unmanned drones or loitering munition with expensive missiles, but I want to shoot them from various distances.

I want our navy to use domestic VLS system for all types of missiles including surface-to-surface ones (g40 body with Kuzgun sensor etc) , using G40 or a similar missile body to maximize striking/defence power and a possible booster may mean long distance strike and multirole capability that can be tailored depending on the threat.

Other naval platforms, even auxiliary ones can also adopt G40 because we have ADVENT and cooperative engagement capability (CEC). If TF-2000 is late or the numbers are not enough, this could also be a barrier against lack of long range air defence.

If this succeeds we can use the same system for ground and air platforms. SM is big for an UAV but I think Akıncı can carry G40, maybe with a booster too if needed.

SM type missile also should be developed and they should not be mutually exclusive.

And I trust SAGE more than Roketsan on innovation, also think competing missiles are our advantage in the long term.

Our Navy may think different though.
 
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Cabatli_TR

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Good news if true. But someone needs to help me with where this fits in between our self-developed systems and S400.

If the political problems are solved with France, This cooperation will give fruits for our BMD SAM(exo-) system program. Aster Blk-2 was being developed by Italy and France and I believe Turkey will be an industrial partner of this program. A few battery Blk-1NT can be procured as a part of this cooperation but the actual partnership will be formed on Blk-2 missiles.
 

Anmdt

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And I trust SAGE more than Roketsan on innovation, also think competing missiles are our advantage in the long term.
Sage is part of Hisar project as well. Actually sage takes a part in almost all Anti Air - Cruise missile projects.
 

dustdevil

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Sage is part of Hisar project as well. Actually sage takes a part in almost all Anti Air - Cruise missile projects.
Some of them as a subcontractor, but the stuff I trust more in terms of innovation are coming out from their labs. (in other terms my perception as an civilian outsider, Göktuğ and G40 looks like SAGE exclusive in R&D phase)
 
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there might be correlation between SAM systems and fighters ? For instance , one battery SAMP-T could be equal to how many F16s or EF typhoon?

Having variety of SAM systems seems to compansate the lack of fighters. SAMP-T battery VS 20-30 EF typhoon ?
 

Combat-Master

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Aselsan IHASavar
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GoatsMilk

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SSB İsmail Demir: “Sometimes we call restrictions 'good luck'. Because a block in the detail product, which we are not aware of, causes us to take a step. For example; We would start using HİSAR-A 6 months ago. It's a little late. Because a part-sensor in a system was blocked. What did we do we made that sensor ourselves. "


I'm guessing it might have been the laser proximity fuze?

Why not make it yourself from the beginning? What's the plan keep buying their parts until they embargo you and then keep reacting and speaking like clowns about how good the embargoes are?

We saw this with the TB2 where step by step parts were getting embargoed, the same response its so so good because now we make it ourselves, why not just make it yourselves to begin with and stop giving the enemy tools to humiliate the Turkish defence industry.

Bayraktar in the beginning said the TB2 was pretty much all indigenous, then it turned out that even the most basic parts were being brought from the west. Then one embargo after the other hit and Turkey started making these parts and they celebrated.

Make it yourself from the beginning, stop waiting to get embargoed to react.
 

Zafer

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Why not make it yourself from the beginning? What's the plan keep buying their parts until they embargo you and then keep reacting and speaking like clowns about how good the embargoes are?

We saw this with the TB2 where step by step parts were getting embargoed, the same response its so so good because now we make it ourselves, why not just make it yourselves to begin with and stop giving the enemy tools to humiliate the Turkish defence industry.

Bayraktar in the beginning said the TB2 was pretty much all indigenous, then it turned out that even the most basic parts were being brought from the west. Then one embargo after the other hit and Turkey started making these parts and they celebrated.

Make it yourself from the beginning, stop waiting to get embargoed to react.
Why bother make the off the shelf parts yourself when you can spend your energy in making your end product better. If we had started developing our own engine for the Atak helicopter we could only hope to start making it when the engine is ready while now we have the products half a decade before we can have a reliable engine.

Baykar TB2 had 93% indigenous rating. If we waited for an indigenous engine for it we could only be starting to fly it this year, which is a half a decade later than we flied it with foreign engine. Our own CATS was like 10 kg heavier and we kept buying the lighter and foreign one until we can't anymore. End product quality is paramount, you want to use the part that will make the end product better for as long as you can until you can not anymore.
 

GoatsMilk

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Why bother make the off the shelf parts yourself when you can spend your energy in making your end product better. If we had started developing our own engine for the Atak helicopter we could only hope to start making it when the engine is ready while now we have the products half a decade before we can have a reliable engine.

Baykar TB2 had 93% indigenous rating. If we waited for an indigenous engine for it we could only be starting to fly it this year, which is a half a decade later than we flied it with foreign engine. Our own CATS was like 10 kg heavier and we kept buying the lighter and foreign one until we can't anymore. End product quality is paramount, you want to use the part that will make the end product better for as long as you can until you can not anymore.

Every time Turkey gets a minor item banned it makes international news for Turkey and embarrasses the nation. Critical parts I understand like an engine, but basic items like the most recent items that got banned from england is embarrassing, especially when Turkey repeats the tired "we thank them for banning stuff" now we make it instead. It just comes across as dumb.

Just like when the armenians like bitter insecure little girls, lobbied a uk company for basic off the shelf parts.


Critical stuff i understand it takes time to develop like an engine and it makes sense to make what you can now until you can make your own, but not basic parts that Turks can make with absolute ease.

And baykar has a penchant for over emphasising the ingenious contribution. I have no doubts now that most of the TB2 is Turkish made, but it wasn't like that at the start despite ak party and baykar claiming otherwise.


If i remember correctly even the original propeller was brought from a german company, recently changed to a 3 blade Turkish made one. Yes today most of that drone is Turkish made, but we don't need to keep waiting for petty embargoes to make the basic parts ourselves. One day you might get caught out in serious situation.

Long story short we seem to be a race of people who only get moving when its do or die. No doubts once we move incredible things happen, but it would be nice if we could be a bit more german in our planning and preperation.

We had to get embargoed after the Cyprus liberation of 1974 before Turks realised they had to start making their own stuff.
 
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