TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[boredaf]

48 Eurofighter T3 would be the perfect interim while we wait for TF-X and upgrade our F-16s, if it is true. And we would better familiarize ourselves with EJ2000 and RR engines in general.

 

[Afif]

THE MAIN DIFFERENT BETWEEN T3 AND T3A IS THAT, THE LATER IS EQUIPPED WITH CAPTOR E AESA RADAR.

 

[Turan]

So if we buy EF T3 now, when will it be operationally added in the inventory?

 

[Zafer]

How about weapons integrations, no integrations means no deal.

 

[Nutuk]

Terrible if true!

Total waste of money on 4th generation aircraft

 

[Nutuk]

We truly do not need enemies, as we are our own worst enemy.

Nobody else can weaken the Turkish army as we are trying. News of late make me really worry, what does it mean to get 30 year old British warships? What does it mean to buy 4th generation fighter jets while everyone else are retiring them?

Answer is clear: we do not want a strong Turkiye

 

[Stimpy75]

how about that these are just Bazar tactics? did this come to your mind? don't know how you do your bazar alış veriş, but if i go to the bazar, i ask the buyer what the thing i don't want costs and what the rest cost, including the thing i want....we are our own enemies? i don't want to get political but keep your bs to your self as if anybody is trying to give the things we want for free and even if we pay more than enybody else, we still don't get these, and you are partially right , there are enemies within us....the famous 25% betonkafa

 

[Boz]

This is a very simple equation: We need an intermediary solution until TF-X.

• The options are; F-16 Viper or Eurofighter Typhoon.

Personally, I prefer the Eurofighter Typhoon even if the US would want to sell the F-16s. Either way no need to dramatisation.

 

[Yasar_TR]

48 T3A according to this sources. If true, good news.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617429910930468866

Great news if true! These planes will fill the void that is beginning to open in our air force deterrent.
But there are three points that is very important:
1. They really ought to have ECRS-MK2 Aesa hybrid radar fitted.
2. Hopefully we will receive a squadron of upgraded Tranche 1 planes too to familiarise ourselves with these new planes.
3. Most importantly ; This deal should include the RR engine for the MMU .

 

[boredaf]

Total waste of money on 4th generation aircraft

EF T3A is one of, if not the best, 4.5 generation multi role jet out there. Getting this one, with reasonable delivery times and ability to integrate our own missiles (and maybe systems in the future) wouldn't be a waste of money at all.

It'll be early to mid 2030s before we can field TF-X in meaningful numbers and we desperately need a solution until that time. Imo, upgrading our F-16's with our own capabilities (and maybe even buying 40 more F-16V with the money the US owes us) and getting these jets is our best bet right now.

 

[Rodeo]

The source of the news is TurkishFacts4U. Considering how unreliable that twitter account is, we may as well discard it.

 

[Nutuk]

how about that these are just Bazar tactics? did this come to your mind? don't know how you do your bazar alış veriş, but if i go to the bazar, i ask the buyer what the thing i don't want costs and what the rest cost, including the thing i want....we are our own enemies? i don't want to get political but keep your bs to your self as if anybody is trying to give the things we want for free and even if we pay more than enybody else, we still don't get these, and you are partially right , there are enemies within us....the famous 25% betonkafa

You simply don't do bazaar tactics from government to government, this is not a bazaar!

Who is politicizing it, you talk about it!

Pure technically, it is utmost stupid to go for 30 year old ships and we also do not need eurofighters with all the European snub that will come along. There will be some who will say but we are buying from the British, yeah as if that is different. How many times did Britain not give us the ships we paid for, a little bit history may open some eyes.

This interim talk is also very lose, if we want deterrence, the question is against whom? Against Russia? Russia has broken her teeth on Ukraine. Against Greece? Don't make me laugh!

 

[Heartbang]

Against Greece? Don't make me laugh!

It doesn't make sense when you first look at it at face value, but the Greek state is a suicidal one. They're highly fanatical and receive near constant stream of means to do evil stuff towards the Turks. Highly zealous bunch of lads can make a lotta difference in the field. If you have doubts, ask the Mujahideen! Or ISIS!

 

[uçuyorum]

There are a few aspects to consider with eurofighter deal.

1. MMU has still a good while to start making deliveries. If first deliveries are made about 2030 it will still take a couple years to deliver initial batch. Then I imagine there would be some time before the next block starts serial production and ends deliveries. I think at this point we are talking 2035-2040 for 100+ TFX, if we take the 24 planes a year calculation from Temel Kotil. Even if we modernise all F16s that we have, without new ones delivered, and F4s retired, some of our F16s will be stretched thin and age even faster. If our fighter fleet drops below 200s that wouldn’t be nice. So one way or another, even if its costly, injection of new platforms that excel in air to air capabilities is very important. Since drones help with A2G capabilities significantly, we should’t worry much about that. But don’t forget eurofighters and f16s will still have to last into 2040s because we won’t have 300 TFX to replace entire fleet before then with even the most optimistic estimates.

2. We still want to be part of international projects and have alternatives, as well as keep good relations with other states and give them incentive to keep their relations positive with us. This is also important for keeping up with technology and methods used by other countries.

3. However, we still don’t know if other members of eurofighter consortium will not present us with embargoes about munitions and spare parts if they authorise the initial sale at all.

4. Eurofighters and F16 use different aerial refueling methods. Will we also have to buy new refueling planes? Will we even be sold any?

5. As far as money is concerned, I think we are willing to buy any acceptable plane even if it is very costly, because it is very critical for us, even if sacrifices must be made. So much is wasted on things we don’t need, I’m sure we can come up with the money for such a vital issue.

 

[Nutuk]

It doesn't make sense when you first look at it at face value, but the Greek state is a suicidal one. They're highly fanatical and receive near constant stream of means to do evil stuff towards the Turks. Highly zealous bunch of lads can make a lotta difference in the field. If you have doubts, ask the Mujahideen! Or ISIS!

Even if we consider all that true (a bit harsh) than again, Greece has no land forces nor a reliable navy to prevent big losses against Turkiye.

They just invest in the air force to have a bit deterrence against us (not the other way around)

 

[Nutuk]

There are a few aspects to consider with eurofighter deal.

1. MMU has still a good while to start making deliveries. If first deliveries are made about 2030 it will still take a couple years to deliver initial batch. Then I imagine there would be some time before the next block starts serial production and ends deliveries. I think at this point we are talking 2035-2040 for 100+ TFX, if we take the 24 planes a year calculation from Temel Kotil. Even if we modernise all F16s that we have, without new ones delivered, and F4s retired, some of our F16s will be stretched thin and age even faster. If our fighter fleet drops below 200s that wouldn’t be nice. So one way or another, even if its costly, injection of new platforms that excel in air to air capabilities is very important. Since drones help with A2G capabilities significantly, we should’t worry much about that. But don’t forget eurofighters and f16s will still have to last into 2040s because we won’t have 300 TFX to replace entire fleet before then with even the most optimistic estimates.

2. We still want to be part of international projects and have alternatives, as well as keep good relations with other states and give them incentive to keep their relations positive with us. This is also important for keeping up with technology and methods used by other countries.

3. However, we still don’t know if other members of eurofighter consortium will not present us with embargoes about munitions and spare parts if they authorise the initial sale at all.

4. Eurofighters and F16 use different aerial refueling methods. Will we also have to buy new refueling planes? Will we even be sold any?

5. As far as money is concerned, I think we are willing to buy any acceptable plane even if it is very costly, because it is very critical for us, even if sacrifices must be made. So much is wasted on things we don’t need, I’m sure we can come up with the money for such a vital issue.

1) Yes, but we do not have only MMU, we have also Hurjet, Kizilelma, TISU. Getting Eurofighter is not the solution, it's a burden (not only technically but also politically as we know our European friends and their love for sanctions. Don't give them the means!)

Suppose we buy today, than it will still take at least 2 years (in most positive case) to get them in inventory, and a considerable time (say also 2 years) to have our pilots, infrastructure etc. completely adapted to have them in effective use (we talk about 2027 at earliest).

Modernizing F16's is the only one that makes sense, no extra burden to the infrastructure and logistics or pilot trainings.

Air to ground roles will completely go to drones in the near future (Kizilelma and TISU), this is controversially the area we are the most safe with our own bombs and missiles developed, in special cases the F16's will be enough.

2) projects yes! But not straight purchase of Eurofighter, or 30 year old ships.

3) Refer to point 1

4) Refer to point 1

5) Replacing the US whims for European whims, I don't know what to say. It's like crying out lout: come slap us!

 

[TheInsider]

It is interesting that according to rumors we are buying T3A, not T4.
IMHO it is a good decision. We should buy 40-48 EF-2000 T3A and second-hand T1s from the UK and upgrade T1s. We should buy ECRS radar rather than Captor-E AESA. We should be able to integrate our own weapons into Turkish Typhoons.
EF-2000 with AESA radar is superior to any 4th/4.5th gen aircraft for air-to-air missions including Rafale, F-16, and F-15.

 

[Zafer]

Many of our woes will disappear once our TF6000 engine takes flight on one of our UCAVs. Even the Akınıcı is a relief but is no match to a jet UCAV. I wouldn't think our MoD would be quick to look for alternatives before we fly our UCAVs. I hope it takes a long time to do the evaluations and we can see the picture clearer before be make a choice.

 

[Nutuk]

It is interesting that according to rumors we are buying T3A, not T4.
IMHO it is a good decision. We should buy 40-48 EF-2000 T3A and second-hand T1s from the UK and upgrade T1s. We should buy ECRS radar rather than Captor-E AESA. We should be able to integrate our own weapons into Turkish Typhoons.
EF-2000 with AESA radar is superior to any 4th/4.5th gen aircraft for air-to-air missions including Rafale, F-16, and F-15.

And put a bullet into the MMU project

We cannot even upgrade the F16's and dreams are there to upgrade EF2000. Allah may save us

 

[Isbara]

And put a bullet into the MMU project

We cannot even upgrade the F16's and dreams are there to upgrade EF2000. Allah may save us

Okay I see your opinion and I admire that.
But what if an unexpected conflict occurs between Tr and Gr ?
What we're gonna do then ? Ask Greece to wait for our national fighers to come ? Our airforce officers are the ones to evaluate the threat and seek for solutuions.

I say let's trust and our air force authorities. And their desicions. They might have seen a possible threat incoming years and they're preparing some measures for it.

No one's willing to jeopardise TFX project. Especially air force.