TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Spitfire9]

I think what our Turkish friends are angry about is the double standard of nato allies who justify their restrictions on military sales to turkey for 50 on issues of democracy and human rights but in the same breath sell stuff to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar or any other Middle Eastern/north African countries.

I take your point. Better not to sell to any regime that oppresses its people IMO.

 

[Zoth]

Democracy and freedom stuff is important to the people of Europe. Some of us and some of our governments will continue to parrot it to countries wanting to buy our kit. We don't support despots.

If the Turkish government wants to buy Eurofighter, there is an easy way to do that - stop behaving in an autocratic, dictatorial manner. Start behaving as your constitution demands - respect democracy. Europe does not want a de facto dictatorship on its doorstep.

Who is "we" in this matter, that "don't supports despots"? Italy who is collaborating with multiple Turkish companies, same with Spain who also does the same or the UK who is trying to sell us Eurofighters? Do you think that you are the only available alternative?

About your second paragraph, you finally showed your true colors, the same old hypocritical european, the same old song again, you guys care about democracy until some right wing party suddenly rises in popularity.

 

[Strong AI]

I'm sorry, locking up the politician most likely to defeat Erdogan in a free election was what prompted this as far as I can see. Before that and all the demonstrations that followed, Germany was agreeable to Eurofighter supply. What you say about German dislike/hatred for Turkiye being the cause does not make sense to me. If that were the reason, how come Germany ever agreed to selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

I woud say because Germany was cornered by the rest of the EF consortium. It took many month for them to change Germany's decision. But now Germany has found another excuse.
Is there another consortium member who talks about Ekrem?
But we need to wait for the new german government for a final decision.

 

[Spitfire9]

Who is "we" in this matter, that "don't supports despots"? Italy who is collaborating with multiple Turkish companies, same with Spain who also does the same or the UK who is trying to sell us Eurofighters? Do you think that you are the only available alternative?

About your second paragraph, you finally showed your true colors, the same old hypocritical european, the same old song again, you guys care about democracy until some right wing party suddenly rises in popularity.

 

[Spitfire9]

To me Eurofighter does appear to be the only alternative unless you call Gripen E an alternative and there is no guarantee that would be deliverable in numbers in a suitable timeframe. Same problem with KF-21, I think. Even if Turkiye would buy from France, what I read from India is that it may want to order 40 Rafale for the IAF but delivery would be expected post 2030.

 

[Azeri441]

Handelsblatt

www.handelsblatt.com

Alman hükümeti Türkiye'ye Eurofighter satışını veto etti – DW – 18.04.2025

Handelsblatt gazetesi, İmamoğlu'nun tutuklanması nedeniyle Alman hükümetinin Türkiye'ye Eurofighter tipi savaş uçaklarının satışını engellediğini yazdı.

www.dw.com

Alman basını: Hükûmet, İmamoğlu'nun tutuklanması gerekçesiyle Türkiye'ye Eurofighter satışını engelledi

Alman basını: Hükûmet, İmamoğlu'nun tutuklanması gerekçesiyle Türkiye'ye Eurofighter satışını engelledi

t24.com.tr

Germany vetoed Turkiye's Eurofighter acquisition amidst arrest of Ekrem Imamoglu

German government is changing in May 6 so they might change their policy again. I don't know

Brain dead German government destroying their own defense industry further, specially when they are trying to revamp their industry due to Russian threats.

Absolute morons.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

How would we know that Eko is really a corrupt thief?
When Germany sides with and supports him.

 

[TR_123456]

To me Eurofighter does appear to be the only alternative unless you call Gripen E an alternative and there is no guarantee that would be deliverable in numbers in a suitable timeframe. Same problem with KF-21, I think. Even if Turkiye would buy from France, what I read from India is that it may want to order 40 Rafale for the IAF but delivery would be expected post 2030.

Just use logic,if it is about democracy then why sell to KSA,Qatar,Egypt,UAE etc.
This means,it is not about democracy,its about Türkiye specificly.
Remember the weapons embargos by our NATO allies.
So,it is a fact.
What is also a fact is that Germany has no choice but to agree to the deal made.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

There you have it.... Several people say that Imamoglu is a puppet who will protect Western interests at the expense of Turkey.
You have received so many signals and this is the clearest one.

But most here know better..... Turkey is moving out of the spheres of powers like USA & Europe, and wants to cooperate with all globally economically, militarily, to be as independent as possible.

Did you think that would have no consequences and would cause great reluctance economically, politically and strategically against Turkey?
They want to stop with all their might the rise of Turkey as an independent power, which will be neutral, it is a key state, both as a transit for Goods, Energy Hub and as a country it is geographically like an aircraft carrier that has access to the Caucasus, Middle and Far East, Europe and Africa.
But hey, Erdoğan is a dictator and Imamoglu is what Turkey needs....

 

[boredaf]

There you have it.... Several people say that Imamoglu is a puppet who will protect Western interests at the expense of Turkey.
You have received so many signals and this is the clearest one.

But most here know better..... Turkey is moving out of the spheres of powers like USA & Europe, and wants to cooperate with all globally economically, militarily, to be as independent as possible.

Did you think that would have no consequences and would cause great reluctance economically, politically and strategically against Turkey?
They want to stop with all their might the rise of Turkey as an independent power, which will be neutral, it is a key state, both as a transit for Goods, Energy Hub and as a country it is geographically like an aircraft carrier that has access to the Caucasus, Middle and Far East, Europe and Africa.
But hey, Erdoğan is a dictator and Imamoglu is what Turkey needs....

They were looking for an excuse and Erdogan gave them one, because he is a bloody dictator ffs. If you truly believe that they suddenly found this stuff just as he was gaining ground as the presidential candidate AND almost all of the polls were showing Erdogan was going to lose, then you're brainwashed. If the roles were reversed and someone who has been in charge for over 20 fucking years had Erdogan arrested just as his popularity rose they would've been one as well.

We're not moving out of anyone's sphere of power, your own messiah has been banging on more cooperation with Europe, including more talks of joining the EU. Cut off our ties to those Westerners you hate so much and we'd be fucking North Korea. Those Turkic countries people love jerking off about just recognised us as an invader on Cyprus and those Islamic countries people want Turkey to become more like has been working more and more with Israel and the West.

Dream all you want, but the reality is we do not have the economical, industrial or even manpower to become a completely independent superpower that support itself completely. Cooperation is still a necessity whether you like it or not. Best thing to do is NOT to give more ammunition in pursuit of personal power and enrichment. A change is what Turkey desperately needs 20 years of Erdogan "stability" has given us nothing but embarrassment overseas and economical downfall in our country.

 

[RMZN]

If they don't, as you put it, 'give a fuck about this stuff' then why is it that they don't all want to take the profit to be made from selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

Because Israel and Saudi Arabia are not potential geopolitical rivals but Turkey is. Saudis can chop up as many journalists as they like, it doesnt have any impact on Europe, meanwhile Turkey very much is in the competition for energy resources in the Med which the EU now needs more than ever with the access to cheap Russian gas gone. Which is completely hypocritical and destroys any notion of europe caring about human rights but instead completely logical from a realpolitik perspective. The talk about europe standing for "democracy" and "human rights" is nothing more than the updated version of europe seeing itself as "racially superior" used to justify imperialism. Sure europeans have bought into said propaganda and may truly believe that they are somehow morally "superior", but at the end of the day they pursue the same goals as those whom they deem "dictators".

 

[what]

I can speak for the SPD and the right-ish oriented ones in the Seeheimer Kreis because of my personal relationship with some people. I know that they value Turkey as a country and partner. One thing people dont understand is and this will be my first and only post on this topic is that:

a) Israel can do whatever the fuck they want, it doesnt matter. Germany will support it.
b) Saudi is seen as a country that can be exploited and milked, not a threat so deliveries, support, updates can be stopped whenever
c) Turkey is held to a higher standard than both countries, not because they want to see a weaker Turkey but because they want a strong Turkey that is democratic and a real partner to Germany and the EU.

Now feel free to speculate all you want, but I know for a fact that many from the Seeheimer Kreis wanted this deal to happen but there was no way to approve it after Imamoglu was arrested and the last bit of hope for a better future for the time being killed.

Maybe the CDU led government will try again, but its no longer in the hands of the SPD and the current coalition.


Here's Imamoglu tweeting out of prison, that the jets should be delivered regardless of his faith:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1914394469383758112

 

[Spitfire9]

Not sure where to post this but since it involves the air force, I'm posting it here.

Is Turkiye interested in a 25 tonne class airlifter in the near future? The C-390 offers more speed than A400M. It has demonstrated operational availability of around 80% and 99% mission completion rate in Brazilian air force service, according to Embraer.

As reported by Poder Aéreo on April 4, 2025, at the LAAD 2025 conference held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazilian Minister of Defense José Múcio announced that Brazil is currently engaged in negotiations with Poland, Finland, and Türkiye regarding the potential acquisition of the C-390 Millennium tactical transport aircraft produced by Embraer.

Brazil confirms that three more countries are close to buying the C-390 transport aircraft

Brazil confirms that three more countries are close to buying the C-390 transport aircraft

armyrecognition.com

 

[mTT]

Is Turkiye interested in a 25 tonne class airlifter in the near future?

Yes, there is news for different airplanes, there is no new news.

Different news,
- Sale for C-390, in exchange for KAAN. ( Brazilian Press )
- For 6 A400s, sale in exchange for 24 HÜRJETs. ( Spanish Press )

"Turkey and the UK are in talks to supply 12 C-130 Military Transport Aircraft to the Turkish Air Force."
12/1/2024

Türkiye ve İngiltere'den C-130 uçağı teması | SavunmaSanayiST

Türkiye ile İngiltere, 12 adet C-130 Askeri Nakliye Uçağı'nın Türk Hava Kuvvetleri'ne tedarikine yönelik temasları ilerletiyor.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[Spitfire9]

Yes, there is news for different airplanes, there is no new news.

Different news,
- Sale for C-390, in exchange for KAAN. ( Brazilian Press )
- For 6 A400s, sale in exchange for 24 HÜRJETs. ( Spanish Press )

"Turkey and the UK are in talks to supply 12 C-130 Military Transport Aircraft to the Turkish Air Force."
12/1/2024

Türkiye ve İngiltere'den C-130 uçağı teması | SavunmaSanayiST

Türkiye ile İngiltere, 12 adet C-130 Askeri Nakliye Uçağı'nın Türk Hava Kuvvetleri'ne tedarikine yönelik temasları ilerletiyor.

www.savunmasanayist.com

I think KAAN would be overkill for Brazil. It is not under threat. Additionally it should see its first F-39 (Gripen E) aircraft rollout of its assembly line this year. The FAB halted Gripen E deliveries from Sweden for budgetary reasons, I think, a year ago to explore lower cost options (used F-16). Committing to buying KAAN would be difficult financially.

If Turkiye is interested in buying A400M from Spain as part of a Hurjet deal and C-130 (ex-RAF?), I guess that C-390 would be a hard sell for Embraer unless C-390 filled some operational requirement that A400M or C-130 could not fill.

 

[Strong AI]

Sources from the Ministry of National Defense have responded to claims in the German press that the German government vetoed the sale of Eurofighter warplanes to Turkey due to an investigation targeting Ekrem İmamoğlu.

The sources stated, "The process is ongoing."

Responding to questions from NTV, ministry sources emphasized that no official statement has been made by German authorities, saying, "We have not received any information regarding these allegations."

The sources noted that the Eurofighter procurement process is being conducted with the UK Ministry of Defence and the company that manufactures the aircraft.

WORK UNDERWAY FOR RESPONSE TO OFFICIAL PRICE OFFER

According to ministry sources, the official price offer for the sale was delivered to Turkey on March 13. Turkey is still in the process of preparing a response to this offer.

A new phase in the Eurofighter procurement process will begin once Turkey sends its counteroffer to the relevant parties.

MSB kaynakları: Eurofighter uçaklarının alım süreci devam ediyor

Ekrem İmamoğlu'na dönük soruşturma nedeniyle Türkiye'nin Eurofighter savaş uçağı alım süreci Almanya tarafından veto edildi. Bu iddiayı Alman basını kaleme aldı. NTV'ye bilgi veren Milli Savunma Bakanlığı kaynakları ise Eurofighter tedarik sürecinin İngiltere ve üretici firma ile yürütüldüğünü...

www.ntv.com.tr

 

[Strong AI]

Maybe the CDU led government will try again, but its no longer in the hands of the SPD and the current coalition.


Here's Imamoglu tweeting out of prison, that the jets should be delivered regardless of his faith:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1914394469383758112

Criticism also from CDU circles

However, the imprisoned individual is now sharply criticizing Berlin's decision. The Turkish Air Force urgently needs the Eurofighter jet, he wrote in a post on the platform X from his prison cell in the high-security prison in Silivri near Istanbul. He wants to appeal to the future federal government.

"Turkey is not just Erdogan — Turkey is more than Erdogan. Governments come and go," Imamoglu continues. "National interests are above Erdogan and Imamoglu. I earnestly ask you to revoke the decision."

Within the CDU, the decision of the acting federal government is also facing criticism. "Turkey is a NATO partner. It should be self-evident that one enables arms deliveries to a NATO partner," said Torsten Frei, Parliamentary Secretary of the CDU/CSU parliamentary group in the Bundestag. "I don't understand why the stoppage happened. The usual criterion is the planned use of the weapons."

When asked whether the next federal government would reverse the decision, Frei said: "Apparently, there were domestic political considerations. I would consider that to be wrong in this case."

Within the Union, it is also argued that Germany should no longer hinder European joint projects in the defense sector with its restrictive export policy. The Eurofighter is not a solely German production, but is manufactured by a consortium of companies from Germany, Spain, Italy, and the United Kingdom.

While the SPD is somewhat less skeptical of arms exports to Turkey than the Greens, outgoing Chancellor Olaf Scholz had personally advocated for the arms deal. However, the authoritarian policies of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan are causing increasing concern among the Social Democrats. Imamoglu's arrest is seen as an anti-democratic act that calls the basis for arms deals into question.

Handelsblatt

www.handelsblatt.com

 

[TR_123456]

Handelsblatt

www.handelsblatt.com

Germany is shooting itsself in the foot again.

 

[Saithan]

There is so much cr.ap to talk about.

Yes we need new jets, but as long as we don't have to fight strong armies, we can manage with cannon fodder and chocking our enemy with troops, that's the mindset I see.

I do not see us getting new jets from procurement, so our own engine projects need to yield hardcore tangible results, we need TS1400 powered helicopters in 100s and we need to produce hurkus 2 en mass. expecting to see a fully blown jet in the next 5 years doesn't seem realistic at all.

@Spitfire9 is not wrong in what he says, and whilst many prefer counter attacking with arguments remember that in a rule of law you follow the laws and you are innocent until proven otherwise.

Marine Le Pen was found guilty, and that's when the verdict was given, but she was free to move around until then.

Özdag and Imamoglu are not convicted, so they are in fact innocent and being held incarcerated unjustly. Not to mention Melih Gökce was not even investigated despite case being raised against him.

 

[No Name]

There is so much cr.ap to talk about.

Yes we need new jets, but as long as we don't have to fight strong armies, we can manage with cannon fodder and chocking our enemy with troops, that's the mindset I see.

I do not see us getting new jets from procurement, so our own engine projects need to yield hardcore tangible results, we need TS1400 powered helicopters in 100s and we need to produce hurkus 2 en mass. expecting to see a fully blown jet in the next 5 years doesn't seem realistic at all.

@Spitfire9 is not wrong in what he says, and whilst many prefer counter attacking with arguments remember that in a rule of law you follow the laws and you are innocent until proven otherwise.

Marine Le Pen was found guilty, and that's when the verdict was given, but she was free to move around until then.

Özdag and Imamoglu are not convicted, so they are in fact innocent and being held incarcerated unjustly. Not to mention Melih Gökce was not even investigated despite case being raised against him.

Can Turkey turn the Hurjet into a Alenia Aermacchi M-346 Master copy and use jet powered drones to make up for it's short comings?