TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Pokemonte13]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970072315779280904

maybe a couple for us as well. Depending on the price

 

[Cenkcnk]

We keep making agreements with USA and EU but we never receive any s*it while GR has +60 AESA fighters

 

[Numberone]

We keep making agreements with USA and EU but we never receive any s*it while GR has +60 AESA fighters

Hard reality

 

[BalkanTurk90]

We keep making agreements with USA and EU but we never receive any s*it while GR has +60 AESA fighters

İts not others foult , we have since 2012 with ÖZGÜR project and nothing until now . Now all major projects have been come together to produce from Land projevts like Altay , İFV apc to Navy ones İstanbul class , Tf 2000 , milden and air forve with steath drones , Kaan Özgür . Now with all this projects we will delay alot of them or we gonna crash , economically its impossible , We are not USA or China .
We fucked up with managmemt and production of defence projects we should accept

 

[Tonyukuk]

İts not others foult , we have since 2012 with ÖZGÜR project and nothing until now . Now all major projects have been come together to produce from Land projevts like Altay , İFV apc to Navy ones İstanbul class , Tf 2000 , milden and air forve with steath drones , Kaan Özgür . Now with all this projects we will delay alot of them or we gonna crash , economically its impossible , We are not USA or China .
We fucked up with managmemt and production of defence projects we should accept

Also a lot of engineers are leaving for countries that will pay them more. Erdoğan is also really pissing off youth for a variety of reasons, so not only is there financial issues but there also may be lack of staff to run all projects at full speed as a lot of quality people are leaving. Not helping at all that in this heated neighborhood, instead if calling for unity Erdoğan has pointed the barrel at the opposition, arrested two major figures and countless others whilst he continues to allow a stream of CIA/MOSSAD assets to leak through the border.

If you think Iran is bad, oh boy. Türkiye is probably infested with countless Afghans and Syrians ready to attack and gather intel for a quick buck from their grandmasters.

Truly a retarded situation, you can thank MOSSAD/CIA backed political Islam for this.

I don't think the Turkish air force has ever been this weak in comparison to its neighbors. It doesn't matter that Türkiye has many benefits in other areas of its military, the failure to maintain supremacy in this period in an immensely dangerous mistake. All of this is due to Erdoğans "mistakes". Miscalculation or treason, you decide.

I'm hoping Kızılelma can be pumped out as soon as possible. Even 20 in the inventory will bring some relief.

 

[mehmed beg]

I think that people who into defence matters should have some realism.
Turkiye was supposed to have by now 50 to 60 F 35s. USA lied and stole 1,5 bn , no?
France wasn't ever going to sell Rafals to TAF, Sweden also never wanted to sell Gripens, Germans never wanted till recently to sell Typhoons and even now with lots of condensations. Russian and Chinese planes were out of the question. I don't think that Biden was will even to sell F16s to Turkiye.
The only thing that Turkiye could have done is to buy Jf/17 Thunder.
What else is out there???

 

[Pokemonte13]

I think that people who into defence matters should have some realism.
Turkiye was supposed to have by now 50 to 60 F 35s. USA lied and stole 1,5 bn , no?
France wasn't ever going to sell Rafals to TAF, Sweden also never wanted to sell Gripens, Germans never wanted till recently to sell Typhoons and even now with lots of condensations. Russian and Chinese planes were out of the question. I don't think that Biden was will even to sell F16s to Turkiye.
The only thing that Turkiye could have done is to buy Jf/17 Thunder.
What else is out there???

well jf 17 is a pakistani jet as much as it is a chinese jet engines avionics ect are sourced from china not that we would even consider it.
Technically the status of our airforce is our fault as it is the fault of our (allies). Even if the true reason why we didn't get the f35s was israeli pressure the nail in the coffin was the s400 we basically gave them the bullets to shoot us in the leg and the government knew that the americans made it pretty clear.
I don't blame the french we also wouldn't want to sell equipment to our geopolitical adversary.
The germans are bit different they claim human rights etc but sell stuff to gulf states and israel basic german hypocracy.
And the f16 i don't know if that was on us or the americans after sweden joined nato.

 

[Sanchez]

USA lied and stole 1,5 bn , no?

US didn't lie. They clearly told us what would happen. Erdogan government thought they were bluffing so they called the bluff and we were met with CAATSA and being booted from F-35.

France wasn't ever going to sell Rafals to TAF

We never asked for Rafales.

Sweden also never wanted to sell Gripens

We never asked for Gripens either. But they did help get TF-X start off in 2013.

Germans never wanted till recently to sell Typhoons

This is true.

I don't think that Biden was will even to sell F16s to Turkiye

Biden government spent more than a year to move the congress to okay the F-16 sale, and congress did okay it. F-16 sale is done, turns out it is the Turkish side that is moving the goal posts with other demands.

Per what's being reported for the last week; US have been pushing Turkey to move forward with the F-16 sale for the last year. Per the same people, Turkey wants a resolution to F-35s before moving forward with the F-16 sale. Americans say that the F-16 sale with its big price tag would be a "confidence building" step to move forward to bigger stuff. Recent claims now say that Turkey will foregoe any new aircraft purchase and will ask for local engine production for F404 and F110; and Americans will again insist on the F-16 sale before moving to any other topics.

Tomorrow will be interesting. But we've finally learned what the hold up re new F-16s was.

We want to be free from America, but to do so we require American engines For Kaan and Hürjet and American knowhow and acceptance to modify our later block F-16s. It's a fucking gordion knot.

We are in a bind. We lack the funds to spend billions on foreign aircraft and fund our own aircraft programs simultaneously. But we need stopgap aircraft yesterday and our own projects won't become real things in this decade.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970819632312586551

 

[Pokemonte13]

US didn't lie. They clearly told us what would happen. Erdogan government thought they were bluffing so they called the bluff and we were met with CAATSA and being booted from F-35.


We never asked for Rafales.


We never asked for Gripens either. But they did help get TF-X start off in 2013.


This is true.


Biden government spent more than a year to move the congress to okay the F-16 sale, and congress did okay it. F-16 sale is done, turns out it is the Turkish side that is moving the goal posts with other demands.

Per what's being reported for the last week; US have been pushing Turkey to move forward with the F-16 sale for the last year. Per the same people, Turkey wants a resolution to F-35s before moving forward with the F-16 sale. Americans say that the F-16 sale with its big price tag would be a "confidence building" step to move forward to bigger stuff. Recent claims now say that Turkey will foregoe any new aircraft purchase and will ask for local engine production for F404 and F110; and Americans will again insist on the F-16 sale before moving to any other topics.

Tomorrow will be interesting. But we've finally learned what the hold up re new F-16s was.

We want to be free from America, but to do so we require American engines For Kaan and Hürjet and American knowhow and acceptance to modify our later block F-16s. It's a fucking gordion knot.

We are in a bind. We lack the funds to spend billions on foreign aircraft and fund our own aircraft programs simultaneously. But we need stopgap aircraft yesterday and our own projects won't become real things in this decade.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970819632312586551

Kinda sad for the airforce no new fighter jets in 17 years (2011-2028) at least coming decade looks very promising

 

[Sanchez]

Kinda sad for the airforce no new fighter jets in 17 years (2011-2028) at least coming decade looks very promising

If it can come, that is.

 

[Lool]

For those who are confused, this is the simplification of the matter:

>>>Trump wants to make Turkey a cash machine for the US industrial complex in order to finance their already-late 6th generation fighter jet; as China already flew three different 6th gen prototypes

>>>Erdogan's govt is split into 2 different groups: the first wants to buy US fighter jets as a stop-gap measure for the TAF. The second group wants to give priority to domestic manufacturers and just buy US engines for KAAN pronto.

The problem with the first group's idea is that the US's F16 and F35 production lines are already reserved for at least the next 3 years; thus, any planes to Turkey will be given after 3 years minimum. Moreover, the initial deal is estimated at a massive 50 billion dollars for the F16s alone (not to mention the F35s). Moreover, the US doesnt want to allow Turkey to use its domestic munitions on its F16 Viper jets and abandon american amunitions. Finally, many Turkish officials are worried that the US take the initial money for the F16s and after a couple of years, they will come up with an excuse from their a** to sanction Turkey and prevent them from not only obtaining American jets but also prevent the domestic jet from being properly financed

The problem with the second group is that the US doesnt want to sell Turkey its engines without securing the massive initial F16 deal. Such a deal will deplete Turkish govt's reserves and make them unable to appropriately find KAAN for some years. Moreover, many expect the KAAN program to face many delays and probably only be incorporated into TAF in 2030 (just like how South Korea jet program got delayed a lot)

I also want to mention that Turkey will continue to please Trump since rumors do indicate that Turkey plans a Military Operation in SDF-controlled Syria next year if the SDF refuse to implement the March 10 agreement (ofcourse if the rumors are true that is)

No path will be easy for Turkey

 

[boredaf]

>>>Trump wants to make Turkey a cash machine for the US industrial complex in order to finance their already-late 6th generation fighter jet; as China already flew three different 6th gen prototypes

That is just nonsense. Even if we purchased everything in that 20 billion agreement it is nothing but a drop in the bucket for the US. And that is just their public budget.

Moreover, the initial deal is estimated at a massive 50 billion dollars for the F16s alone (not to mention the F35s).

Where on earth are you getting that number from??? We already know the exact deal submitted and approved by the US Congress and even with 40 planes, 80 upgrade kits, fuck ton of spare parts and munitions it was 20 something billion.

Finally, many Turkish officials are worried that the US take the initial money for the F16s and after a couple of years, they will come up with an excuse from their a** to sanction Turkey and prevent them from not only obtaining American jets but also prevent the domestic jet from being properly financed

They didn't come up with a reason to stop the F-35, our government gave them a proper reason and had plenty of warning beforehand.

Moreover, many expect the KAAN program to face many delays and probably only be incorporated into TAF in 2030

It *is* going to get into our inventory in 2030s, we already know this. Just this summer there have been multiple mentions of 2032 with domestic engine at earliest iirc.

 

[Lool]

That is just nonsense. Even if we purchased everything in that 20 billion agreement it is nothing but a drop in the bucket for the US. And that is just their public budget.

Where on earth are you getting that number from??? We already know the exact deal submitted and approved by the US Congress and even with 40 planes, 80 upgrade kits, fuck ton of spare parts and munitions it was 20 something billion.

The initial deal was around 40 F16s and 79 modernisation kits from the US for its already existing F16s valued at nearly ~50 billion dollars (if i remember right). Turkey then reduced it to around 40 jets to concentrate on its Ozgur program. Now, Turkey wants to reduce it even more

And Yes, Trump needs money from Turkey especially in a potential sale of F16s and F35s that could provide the US with billions of dollars

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971105339224526994

They didn't come up with a reason to stop the F-35, our government gave them a proper reason and had plenty of warning beforehand.

The main OFFICIAL reason for the CAATSA sancyion imposed on Turkey was that the S400 is detrimental to the US since the S400 can steal valuable data from the F35

This has been refuted by Lindsay Graham who stated that the obly reason that Turkey was placed in the CAATSA sanction list is to make an example out of Turkey to all US-allied nations to not buy weapons from anyone other than the US

Why on Earth is Turkey getting a warning while India which has numerous batteries of S400s are being offered not only US-made engines but also F35s in return for co-operation and more anti-China policy?

It *is* going to get into our inventory in 2030s, we already know this. Just this summer there have been multiple mentions of 2032 with domestic engine at earliest iirc.

Some TAI officials did state that the first 4.5 KAAN will be made available to the TAF by the end of 2028/early 2029. I just posted that a portion of the officials in the govt dont believe that it is feasible

 

[boredaf]

The initial deal was around 40 F16s and 79 modernisation kits from the US for its already existing F16s valued at nearly ~50 billion dollars (if i remember right). Turkey then reduced it to around 40 jets to concentrate on its Ozgur program. Now, Turkey wants to reduce it even more

And Yes, Trump needs money from Turkey especially in a potential sale of F16s and F35s that could provide the US with billions of dollars

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971105339224526994

The main OFFICIAL reason for the CAATSA sancyion imposed on Turkey was that the S400 is detrimental to the US since the S400 can steal valuable data from the F35

This has been refuted by Lindsay Graham who stated that the obly reason that Turkey was placed in the CAATSA sanction list is to make an example out of Turkey to all US-allied nations to not buy weapons from anyone other than the US

Why on Earth is Turkey getting a warning while India which has numerous batteries of S400s are being offered not only US-made engines but also F35s in return for co-operation and more anti-China policy?

Some TAI officials did state that the first 4.5 KAAN will be made available to the TAF by the end of 2028/early 2029. I just posted that a portion of the officials in the govt dont believe that it is feasible

I'm sorry but, lmfao. You are taking what Trump says seriously? That is absolutely hilarious. His brain is melting at this point and he has no idea what he is talking about, at all. And Lindsay Graham is an arse licker who would say anything to look tough, or, make Trump look tough. F-35 to India was nothing but Trump bullshitting, again, since nothing even remotely official happened there. Seriously, Trump's brain is mush, stop taking him seriously.

And YOU ARE remembering it wrong it was NEVER 50 billion, ever. 20 or 23 billion was the number for the whole deal. The fact that you are still saying that number even though I told you we have the actual deal already written down and it was around 20 is fucking weird.

And some TAI officials were talking out of their arses that is why right now all the talk shifted to 2030s already.

 

[Zafer]

Passenger plane order to Boeing can be in the hundreds if the US plays well.

 

[Sanchez]

Passenger plane order to Boeing can be in the hundreds if the US plays well.

I don't think this is as big of a leverage as it's made out to be. TK for decades have run a dual fleet of European and American aircraft. It's a doubling of the fleet to get better deals from manufacturers and to make sure in the event of a crisis, portion of the fleet can run regardless, be it systematic issues, maintenance issues etc.

TK already ordered about 250 Airbus units in 2023. Airbus orderbook is nearly full, with airlines outbidding each other to get a slot, lots of delays in production due to supply chain issues in both sides of the atlantic as well. TK has to order Boeings to hit their previously stated goals and to keep the fleet young. Maybe the order gets delayed 2-3 more years, but it will happen.

 

[Zafer]

I don't think this is as big of a leverage as it's made out to be. TK for decades have run a dual fleet of European and American aircraft. It's a doubling of the fleet to get better deals from manufacturers and to make sure in the event of a crisis, portion of the fleet can run regardless, be it systematic issues, maintenance issues etc.

TK already ordered about 250 Airbus units in 2023. Airbus orderbook is nearly full, with airlines outbidding each other to get a slot, lots of delays in production due to supply chain issues in both sides of the atlantic as well. TK has to order Boeings to hit their previously stated goals and to keep the fleet young. Maybe the order gets delayed 2-3 more years, but it will happen.

Who knows maybe China catches up or maybe Airbus grow bigger. Boeing losing deals left and right puts them in a tight spot. Delays of several years is pressure enough to make them compromise.