TR Aircraft Carrier and Amphibious Ship Programs

[cr33pt3d]

TCG Anadolu should have this combo instead, feels like the ship is under protected !

 

[Yasar_TR]

View attachment 60621

TCG Anadolu should have this combo instead, feels like the ship is under protected !

I fully agree with you. This ship is naked when it comes to self protection. Couple of Phalanx will never cut it. It needs on board protection at a level that is commensurate with a vessel of this stature.
Goksur is a good close-in-weapons system. Its designers are very confident that they can hit targets with a single missile shot. But missiles developed from Bozdogan mean, they are expensive. Roketsan’s Levent System, however, use an upgraded version of Sungur missile. They should be a lot cheaper. Sungur missiles use titanium rods that are welded at alternate points and when missile explodes, these rods form a large circular wall that hits the incoming threat. Sungur is built as a true economical CIWS missile with an expected effective range of 11km thanks to its dual thrust engine. In addition to the 2 Phalanx there should be 2 Levent/Goksur on board.
Also, if we can not attach basket designed VLSs at the sides of this ship like Cavour has, then at least, we should place some oblique launchers with Hisar-RF missiles on to the deck of this ship.

 

[UkroTurk]

View attachment 60621

TCG Anadolu should have this combo instead, feels like the ship is under protected !

For sure TCG ANADOLU needs Gökdemir.

Phalanx is very dangerous system. Once The system accidentally attacked neighbor ship.

Old system, old radar, old software.

That's why I don't like autonomous CIWS. All weapons should be integrated with each other.


Also Such an expensive ship should have anti USV weapons( UMTAS) especially compact AESA Plates.

Kaç para uleeen 4 tane küçük AESA paneli!! Shut up and take my money.
We have great RETİNARs.

 

[Quasar]

People are saying: The air defense frigate will protect TCG ANADOLU. But how much does AD Frigate cost comparing MİDLAS loaded with missiles? I think 4 x compact AESA radar+16 cell MİDLAS with missiles,plus 2 x Gökdemir would be max 100 million USD. With such solution you would get LHD destroyer which everyone dreams.

Qatar has an order for an Italian LPD and as weapons, there are sixteen Aster-30s, one 76 mm cannon, and two 25 mm cannons. instead of a LPD it looks more like a destroyer with a strangly placed flight deck. I can understand your point, me myself belive that eventually ANADOLU will have upgraded CIWSs and similar future platforms could have VLS

Yet another major threat for such platforms are submarines should we place lightweight torpedoes or anti submarine rokects and a dedicted anti submarine warfare helicopter on ANADOLU dont get me wrong bro guess all I am trying to say is we should find the balance between self defence and the wisdom of layered defence and appointing and acting together with a flotilla for this goal we should not see it as a weakness on the contrary it shows strenght

 

[UkroTurk]

Qatar has an order for an Italian LPD and as weapons, there are sixteen Aster-30s, one 76 mm cannon, and two 25 mm cannons. instead of a LPD it looks more like a destroyer with a strangly placed flight deck. I can understand your point, me myself belive that eventually ANADOLU will have upgraded CIWSs and similar future platforms could have VLS

Yet another major threat for such platforms are submarines should we place lightweight torpedoes or anti submarine rokects and a dedicted anti submarine warfare helicopter on ANADOLU dont get me wrong bro guess all I am trying to say is we should find the balance between self defence and the wisdom of layered defence and appointing and acting together with a flotilla for this goal we should not see it as a weakness on the contrary it shows strenght

Does TCG ANADOLU have Yakamoz sonar?

 

[Quasar]

Does TCG ANADOLU have Yakamoz sonar?

Anmdt​

dont know but I am almost certain that it has Aseslan TORK torpedo countermeasure system

 

[Anmdt]

Anmdt​

dont know but I am almost certain that it has Aseslan TORK torpedo countermeasure system

It has HIZIR TKAS and TAS. Just speculating that later they may add HIZIR LFAS as well.

Unlike in the VLS ones, ESSMs on Mk 29s that are used on US amphibs and carriers are not quadpacked. Mk29 only carries 8 ESSMs. Tho it being a neater packaging, nothing below the deck, is a good selling point. US doesn't like VLS on its carriers.

It was rumored that Goksur may launch Gokdogan YH (possibly will be referred as DH in naval application) in addition to Bozdogan DH. So if it is capable of handling 8 Gokdogan DH it may come very handy.
However there is only one ready spot for PDMS. For another one to launch Bozdogan DH they would need a new study.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yet another major threat for such platforms are submarines should we place lightweight torpedoes or anti submarine rokects and a dedicted anti submarine warfare helicopter on ANADOLU dont get me wrong bro guess all I am trying to say is we should find the balance between self defence and the wisdom of layered defence and appointing and acting together with a flotilla for this goal we should not see it as a weakness on the contrary it shows strenght

ASW is an important subject when it comes to protecting assets like TCG Anadolu. For that, at least one Reis Class will have to be assigned to the ship at all times. But also good sensors and sonars are needed on board. When it comes to actual ASW, you can not beat the power of a Helicopter like Seahawk, which TCG Anadolu already has..
quote:
Main missions of the MH-60R Seahawk are Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW). This helicopter can detect and track submarines and surface ships and attack with torpedoes and missiles.

The Seahawk has advanced mission systems and sensors. It carries advanced airborne active sonar, multi-mode search radar and nose-mounted forward-looking infrared (FLIR) turret. Its multi-mode search radar has an automatic periscope detection and discrimination capability. Also it carries air-launched sonobuoys. Data is transferred via advanced airborne fleet data link.
Unquote.

 

[BaburKhan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742547509531041816

 

[dBSPL]

Fatih Mehmet Küçük said in today's broadcast that there are rumors of revision in the TF-2000s after Ukraine hit the Moskva cruiser.


Correction: They will increase the tonnage to 9 thousand tons. 96 VLS is coming.

Concept: We are looking for something compact and cheap to operate.
Design/Platform choice: Requirements that move the platform to another point.
Production: At the end of the day, we start with the LPD and end up with the LHA, or the missile boat and end up with the corvette, or the corvette and end up with the frigate. Or, for example, if a tank landing ship is requested, we end up with a command and control ship almost the size of an LPD.

And finally, it seems that we are after a full-fledged 280-meter aircraft carrier instead of a sister to TCG Anadolu, and a submarine with vertical launchers.

Not to mention 9,000 tons (I am sure it will reach 10,000 tons of combat displacement by the time the design is finished) destroyers...

I have no objection to any of it. The upscaling of the navy is one of the biggest dreams of our lifetime. But I'd like to say that this way of keeping a low profile is no longer working. At the end of the day, it was already clear from the aviation projects that we would be heading towards an 'actual' aircraft carrier. Or that naval geopolitics, in its quest to bring back from the Gulf of Guinea to the Basrah Gulf into its hinterland, is really imposing a blue navy transformation...

 

[Afif]

TN needs to evolve into (or adopt the doctrines of) a blue-water navy in order to become a navy beyond the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean.

About that, India and China despite having multiple AC and nuclear submarine fleet are not considered blue water navy. Because it is assumed that they don't have the doctrinal and logistical set up for that (yet). Do you think a blue water set up like French or Royal navy would be the best naval posture for Turkey from a strategic stand point? I am only saying this, because pretty much the only reason UK and France's blue water force posture make sense is because if they were to fight a peer adversary, it is always going to be alongside USN in a multi national task group. However, if it wasn't the case and UK and France were left on their own, I think they would have gone for a different force design to make the most efficient use of limited resources.

 

[Baklava Consumer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742547509531041816

This is a waste of money, there is no fighter jet available to use on this aircraft carrier.

Using KE, TB-3, Hurjet or other light aircraft/UAV is not worth it on a platform like this. They would be spending $8B-$10B on a massive two island aircraft carrier, when we already can operate KE and TB-3 from TCG Anadolu.

Remember that an aircraft carrier's primary defence is the fighter jets on it; this thing would become a massive sitting duck in the ocean. Even more dangerous considering how proliferated and cheap missiles/drones have become.

 

[B_A]

This is a waste of money, there is no fighter jet available to use on this aircraft carrier.

Using KE, TB-3, Hurjet or other light aircraft/UAV is not worth it on a platform like this. They would be spending $8B-$10B on a massive two island aircraft carrier, when we already can operate KE and TB-3 from TCG Anadolu.

Remember that an aircraft carrier's primary defence is the fighter jets on it; this thing would become a massive sitting duck in the ocean. Even more dangerous considering how proliferated and cheap missiles/drones have become.

I guess they are like the Russian,just talk about the aircraft carrier again and again.

But If we get electromagnetic catapult tech we can fly Kaan.

 

[Baklava Consumer]

I guess they are like the Russian,just talk about the aircraft carrier again and again.

But If we get electromagnetic catapult tech we can fly Kaan.

This is very ambitious; you would need a nuclear-powered reactor to power the electromagnetic CATOBAR system.
There are lots of technologies that we don't have.
Electromagnetic catapults, nuclear reactors, and a CATOBAR-capable naval version of Kaan.

Alternatively, you could go for steam-powered catapults, which uses conventional power systems. But this is old tech.

 

[Baklava Consumer]

This is very ambitious; you would need a nuclear-powered reactor to power the CATOBAR system.
There are lots of technologies that we don't have.
CATOBAR, electromagnetic catapults, nuclear reactors, and a CATOBAR capable naval version of Kaan.

We can't convert Kaan to STOVL like F-35B/Harrier, that design phase of the project is long gone.
And I don't think Kaan has the thrust-to-weight ratio to do STOBAR either; even if it did, you would have to limit the payload and fuel on the aircraft...
At that point you might as well use KE, and TB-3 on smaller platforms on the TCG Anadolu. It's not worth it unless we go for a CATOBAR system in my opinion.

 

[uçuyorum]

This is a waste of money, there is no fighter jet available to use on this aircraft carrier.

Using KE, TB-3, Hurjet or other light aircraft/UAV is not worth it on a platform like this. They would be spending $8B-$10B on a massive two island aircraft carrier, when we already can operate KE and TB-3 from TCG Anadolu.

Remember that an aircraft carrier's primary defence is the fighter jets on it; this thing would become a massive sitting duck in the ocean. Even more dangerous considering how proliferated and cheap missiles/drones have become.

That number is massively inflated.
TCG Anadolu costs around 500m €, even HMS Queen Elizabeth costs 3 billion $. I'd imagine the ship we will make is around 1-2 billion $ .

In addition, no we can't use KE from current Anadolu without serious modification. A larger carrier flying KE and also Anka 3 ( TUSAS mentioned this as well for Anadolu), this would give us deep strike capability against weaker countries, these planes have sufficient stealth and range not to compromise the carrier, it would be less useful against a peer adversary but that's not the point we are at right now anyways. But the carrier will take more than a decade from now on, we might start development of new aircraft for carrier by then.

 

[boredaf]

The most logical option for us would be to build Trakya, but change its design enough to make it primarily a drone carrier, for TB3, KE and Anka-3. We don't need an aircraft carrier that we can't protect, hell, we can't even properly protect Anadolu right now. Only after building all of our projected warships, we can protect it. Not to mention, our options for getting a carrier into any ocean is controlled by other countries, what happens if things change and we aren't allowed to pass? Then we end up with a carrier we can't use on 2 of our 3 seas and we don't really need it for the third. And even if we tried to use it there, we would need to relocate most of our Navy to just protect it.

It isn't an "ambitious" project, it is just vain. We would be much better served if we focused the resources it would require to our submarine and destroyer project and establish ourselves as *the* regional power when it comes to naval power.

TCG Anadolu costs around 500m €

That was the first estimate, then it was revised to a billion but its true cost was never revealed.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

TCG Trakya, NGAC (New gen aircraft carrier) program and Carrier capable multi-role combat aircraft is on agenda of TN

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[BalkanTurk90]

TCG Trakya, NGAC (New gen aircraft carrier) program and Carrier capable multi-role combat aircraft is on agenda of TN

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We dont need AC for now because we dont have aircrafts , money and we just need to protect Mavi vatan which is closse to Turkiye.
Even Russia dont have AC .
Those AC are needed by USA which mess with countries around the world .

Turkish navy power in
2030 should be:
(24 frigates + 14 OPV / corvertes)

12 - I class frigates
6 - Tf 4500
4 Barbaros MLU
4 Perry class
4 milgem
10 class hisar Opv

(SUBMARINES) - 24
8 Preveze/gur class submarine
6 Reis class
8 Stm 500
2 Milden (8 on order)

 

[Sanchez]

TCG Trakya, NGAC (New gen aircraft carrier) program and Carrier capable multi-role combat aircraft is on agenda of TN

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I feel the need the add as many will not read the fine print, this is not new per Sünnetçi and is from 2021. It is not yet clear if plans changed and if the NGAC is Trakya or a third ship.