TR Aircraft Carrier and Amphibious Ship Programs

Cabatli_TR

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I feel the need the add as many will not read the fine print, this is not new per Sünnetçi and is from 2021. It is not yet clear if plans changed and if the NGAC is Trakya or a third ship.

It was mentioned several times by officials that second LHD will be produced. Even President Erdoğan stated that there will be another LHD to be produced After Anadolu. In fact, in the LHD describtion text published by Turkish Naval Forces, it is the first time TN officially stated that A second LHD called "TCG Trakya" will be produced as well. As a result of these, NGAC that was given its length as 260-280m a while ago and second (enhanced) LHD named "TCG Trakya" completely different projects.
 

Anmdt

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It was mentioned several times by officials that second LHD will be produced. Even President Erdoğan stated that there will be another LHD to be produced After Anadolu. In fact, in the LHD describtion text published by Turkish Naval Forces, it is the first time TN officially stated that A second LHD called "TCG Trakya" will be produced as well. As a result of these, NGAC that was given its length as 260-280m a while ago and second (enhanced) LHD named "TCG Trakya" completely different projects.
In my opinion, to make these assets useful, the amphibious force should evolve dramatically. It is not practical to have an M48 with a simple 4x4 for amphibious operations. Amphibious forces need to be as capable as land forces if the intention is to use these platforms as it is intended. Frankly I am waiting for a few more solid steps on this as currently the amphibious forces seem to remain untouched and not equipped to the point these carriers indicate.

I think we need a light tank, wheeled APC design suitable for the Navy with optional turret designs, mobile EW systems, mobile air defence, tracked IFV-APCs etc. These are all missing at the moment.
 

uçuyorum

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In my opinion, to make these assets useful, the amphibious force should evolve dramatically. It is not practical to have an M48 with a simple 4x4 for amphibious operations. Amphibious forces need to be as capable as land forces if the intention is to use these platforms as it is intended. Frankly I am waiting for a few more solid steps on this as currently the amphibious forces seem to remain untouched and not equipped to the point these carriers indicate.

I think we need a light tank, wheeled APC design suitable for the Navy with optional turret designs, mobile EW systems, mobile air defence, tracked IFV-APCs etc. These are all missing at the moment
We also more ZAHA(Not Wilfried).

W.r.t carrier need, again, we don't need this carrier for defending our borders, but the geopolitical situation in the next 10 years or so will make this even more necessary I think, asia pacific and africa in general will change drastically. And the carrier itself will take longer than a decade, I fully expect new aircraft to be there to accompany it, my thinking is Anka 3 as well as Anka 4 ( the one that we have seen before, like larger fighter version of the Kratos XQ 58 Valkyrie) are being considered besides TB3 and KE. And as manned fighter I previously suggested a single engine fighter like a knock off F35C using the TF35000 when its done could be possible, but not before 2045. If we want actual manned fighter we should make the ship 300 meter though, not a small drone carrier.

If we have this capability, we will be more important to keep as an ally and this might make our outlook more favorable and help us with matters closer to our borders, though.
 

mehmed beg

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I don't understand this subject much but without carrierborn fighter jet, Hawkeye, catapult and a logistic plane, what is the point of designing an aircraft carrier. Yes, I forgot, no nuclear reactor.
Besides that , what interest does Turkey have in let's say South Asia, Atlantic and many other places?
Maybe, just maybe something like Italian Trieste would be more than enough.
 

B_A

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I don't understand this subject much but without carrierborn fighter jet, Hawkeye, catapult and a logistic plane, what is the point of designing an aircraft carrier. Yes, I forgot, no nuclear reactor.
Besides that , what interest does Turkey have in let's say South Asia, Atlantic and many other places?
Maybe, just maybe something like Italian Trieste would be more than enough.
I think it's just political propaganda now like the Russia.

The countries which actually build aircraft carrier.(for example China and Japan) are just keep on building the ships.

Russian keeping write statement that they will have a new ship but never take action.





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uçuyorum

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Spain have also an Word to say, Gibraltar is an Oversea Terretory of Britain and Morocco will become strategic important for us to connect the sub-Sahara Muslim Countries to international Sea Lanes. Also the Role as an Link for Trade Routes to western Africa, Morocco will Play an important Role.

A future turkish CSG will show presence in the whole Mediterran, Horn of Africa and arabian Sea. There can be different Actors in that Regions from strong States like India, middle-Power like France, Regional Power like Spain, Iran and different non- state Actors. Beside weak States and Non-State Actors all other can pose a serious Threat for the future turkish CSG.
Let's clarify one thing, US is basically the only nation that has a carrier fleet that's basically designed to fight near peer adversaries, and maybe China will get there. Otherwise the force projection other countries use are against much weaker countries with little to no air power or defenses etc. We might engage proxies of larger nations but I doubt we would risk fighting themselves directly. We aren't planning on making something similar to american CSG. Like we won't have 90 F18 on a carrier, Maybe like 30 UCAV airborne at once would be tremendous and even that is very challenging
 

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I don't understand this subject much but without carrierborn fighter jet, Hawkeye, catapult and a logistic plane, what is the point of designing an aircraft carrier. Yes, I forgot, no nuclear reactor.
Besides that , what interest does Turkey have in let's say South Asia, Atlantic and many other places?
Maybe, just maybe something like Italian Trieste would be more than enough.
may be just may be 260 - 280 meters no catapult, no nuclear reactor mainly KE, Anka 3, TB3 complemented with Hürjet and possibily we will play with the idea of unmaned AEW&C and air refueling crafts.( Not all at once but step by step)

İn short, Experimental, paradigm and tradition building light aircraft operating from north west Africa to Red sea, escorted by less than a perfect battle group... This is more or less what we gonna have I guess.

Experience, innovation and ambition these are what we will gain
 
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B_A

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may be just may be

260 - 280 meters no catapult, no nuclear reactor mainly KE, Anka 3, TB3 complemented with Hürjet and unmaned AEW&C and air refueling crafts.

İn short, Experimental paradigm and tradition building light aircraft operating from north west Africa to Red sea
That will be like a Kiev class or Admiral Kuznetsov Class.
 

Oublious

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may be just may be

260 - 280 meters no catapult, no nuclear reactor mainly KE, Anka 3, TB3 complemented with Hürjet and possibily unmaned AEW&C and air refueling crafts.

İn short, Experimental, paradigm and tradition building light aircraft operating from north west Africa to Red sea, escorted by less than a perfect battle group... This is more or less what we gonna have I guess


Thats the best what we can make, after 2040 next step will be nuclear AC.
 

B_A

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I think some ideas of Soviet Navy in cold war is useful for us,because they were in a blocked ocean like us.

We should invest much on submarines and missiles(and the drones) to destroy any enemy witin 1500km.

TCG Anadolu and other carriers can be used like the Kiev class,just use drones replace the YAK38.
 

Zafer

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By the time the carrier ship comes online we will probably have more plane options available.
 

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Building an aircraft carrier is obscenely expensive, because you're not just building 1 aircraft carrier, you have to build an entire group around it just so it can operate safely. For that, we would need multiple destroyers for air defence, multiple destroyers for anti-submarine and anti-surface role, and, logistical support ships. US CSGs use cruisers and destroyers, I think a total of 6-8 warships and at least 1 logistical ship.

We have just began to replace our aging frigates and the numbers we have now are not even adequate to protect TCG Anadolu. Even if we later on added 4 more İstif class or heavier frigates, that puts us at 12. We have 3 seas to protect just in our own backyard, that is just enough for that. We have a design for our destroyer but we don't have all the necessary tech for it yet and it seems like the construction will only being in 2030s. How many can we build at the same time and how fast I don't know, but even frigates are taking us about 3 years from start to finish so I doubt destroyers would be faster. But even if we manage to build 10 in 10 years and have them ready by 2040, we are going to need them in our own waters for air defence. Even UK can't escort its aircraft carriers by itself without pretty much putting all of their naval eggs in one basket, that's why they made a deal with the Dutch to get their ships to accompany theirs.

From design to finish, we would have to dedicate enormous amounts of capital, material, manpower and funds to an aircraft carrier, along with all of the tech that is necessary for one that we don't have yet. This isn't an "ambitious" project, this is vain and borderline suicidal. We have far too many ships and submarines that need replacing, and our navy isn't alone in that. Both army and the air force have existential projects and later purchases that has to be funded, we can't afford to chase a phantom glory like this. We have to be careful and very logical with how we use our funds, resources and industrial capacities.
 

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No need to exagarate, American type aircraft carrier or carrier group is not happening any time soon or ever...

even only cheching operational services of carriers in comparable sizes and roles gives us a better undertanding of the content and size of a group, 4 even most of the time 2 frigates (even sometimes corvettes) ,a replenishment ship and a single submarine is offen what you will encounter.

Most potential uses for such a Turkish group can be

- part of a Nato mission ( I know most of the people may hate this idea)

- part of a mission with friendly states and international missions

-or Most importatnly cases or operations like Libya (would activly take part in action or works as a show of force .... deterrent

 
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Nutuk

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Best defense is offense!

If you do not have the means to strike your defenses are incomplete. I support the aircraft carrier, we need to be able to have a foothold in Africa.
 

dBSPL

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We dont need AC for now because we dont have aircrafts , money and we just need to protect Mavi vatan which is closse to Turkiye.
Even Russia dont have AC .
Those AC are needed by USA which mess with countries around the world .

Turkish navy power in
2030 should be:
(24 frigates + 14 OPV / corvertes)

12 - I class frigates
6 - Tf 4500
4 Barbaros MLU
4 Perry class
4 milgem
10 class hisar Opv

(SUBMARINES) - 24
8 Preveze/gur class submarine
6 Reis class
8 Stm 500
2 Milden (8 on order)
In my humble opinion, I would like to remind that platform planning is not created by a few people writing on paper. Once you extend your scope beyond coastal defenses, It is a complex equation shaped by the geopolitical balances and dynamic conditions we are in. What matters is doctrines and organization which we develope against all these conditions, so platform planning can shape accordingly. Yes all these inventories with whole of their their service life will be carried by the country's economy, but just as the navy will carry the country's economic stability, interests and security on its shoulders.

If you allow, I would like to underline a few details that we always talk about between the lines, but which came to the fore with the last SSIK meeting.

The planned 3rd and 4th modern LSTs are coming. 2 LHD platforms are coming. This group of 6 ships, together with fast landing craft and support elements, can land almost a division-sized military unit in any place of 7 seas 'in one go'!

In short, there is a contrast between the current amphibious force organization and the platform planning for the next 10 years. What I am trying to say is that we are likely to see very important changes in the organizational structure of the Naval Forces Command in the near future, the main one of which could be an amphibious naval command with its own armoured brigades.

The other thing, which is no longer a secret, is the acquisition of a fixed-wing combat air force within the Navy. The third pillar is strategic deterrence, will come from under the seas.

The fact that the navy has begun to spread its wings is indicative of many things, and it sends a very clear message about the next 50 years of Turkish geopolitics.

From today's perspective, perhaps the AC acquisition seems meaningless. Our attempt to make sense of it is often based on what we know and how we assess the current conjuncture. This expansion may also be a matter of necessity, otherwise such a globally impactful move would not have been made in the first place. Also, our NATO relationship has turned into a forced alliance to protect ourselves from it. I am not saying that we will leave NATO, but it is not too far in the future for us to become NATO's second largest naval power. We can discuss at length the next 50 years of the Gulf of Guinea, Somalia and East Africa, or the line from Basra to the East Indian Seas, but there are things right under our noses that we cannot make sense of. We have found gas in the Eastern Mediterranean but we cannot announce it.

The Turkish navy's planning for the next 50 years is clearly evolving in two layers. The first is to start the defense of the homeland from the high seas. The second is to reach the strategic capability to carry the tension to the areas of interest and influence of those who want to bring tension to our doorstep. If this transformation is completed, the Turkish politics will be capable of effective dominance in all geographies that are within the Turkish hinterland or feel historical and cultural affinity.
 
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Huelague

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Best defense is offense!

If you do not have the means to strike your defenses are incomplete. I support the aircraft carrier, we need to be able to have a foothold in Africa.
Africa, South America and maybe South-east Asia. This is what Erdogan told me on our last calling.
 

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