TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Yasar_TR]

Wouldn’t any modern tank be outfitted with some drone for surveillance Ahead or possible ambush spots.

Given the latest battlefields and results. We’d need an ucav above the area where personelle is moving around to spot and strike. I was thinking the tank could have a radar signal booster to relay and increase operationsl range.

Having read your post again I realised that I misunderstood. You are talking about attacking enemy positions with the help of small drones. Like it is in Korhan’s introductory video After 45th sec. and 1min.

 

[Spook]

Aselsan Leopard 2 NG (2010)

BMC Leopard Modernization (2018-2019)

Leo Modernization add-on armor displayed by Kayseri 2nd Military Maintance Factory (2019)

BMC Leotay (2021)

Roketsan Leopard 2A4 T1 Modernization (2021)

FNSS Leo Modernization? (2021)

When the modernization end?? It's not stopping. We created a monster.

 

[BordoEnes]

Aselsan Leopard 2 NG (2010)
View attachment 22372

BMC Leopard Modernization (2018-2019)
View attachment 22369

Leo Modernization add-on armor displayed by Kayseri 2nd Military Maintance Factory (2019)

View attachment 22374

BMC Leotay (2021)

View attachment 22371

Roketsan Leopard 2A4 T1 Modernization (2021)

View attachment 22373

FNSS Leo Modernization (2021)

View attachment 22375


When the modernization end?? It's not stopping. Stop it. Get some help.

The funniest part about this is that the first ever upgrade package, the Leopard2NG was objectively the best one. The rest are comparatively redundant in terms of capabilities and overall protection. Notice how the NG package has fundamentally necessary and basic systems such as:
- Laser Warning Receiver System
- New and bigger sights
- New Generation Thermal sights
- Better Fire Control System
- Electrical gun and turret drive
- Remote weapon station

 

[Spook]

The funniest part about this is that the first ever upgrade package, the Leopard2NG was objectively the best one. The rest are comparatively redundant in terms of capabilities and overall protection. Notice how the NG package has fundamentally necessary and basic systems such as:
- Laser Warning Receiver System
- New and bigger sights
- New Generation Thermal sights
- Better Fire Control System
- Electrical gun and turret drive
- Remote weapon station

It's a Turkish Leo 2 modernization rabbit hole. This is just the stuff that comes to my mind.

Aselsan offered Leopard NG modernization in 2010-11. Was never selected because of financial issues and Altay was in development. It was an impressive of Aselsan to come with modernization like this considering Turkey's armored vehicle industry capabilities was not at this magnitude at that time. Fast forward. Altay program stalls first with contract politics in 2016 and then again with engine embargo in 2018. Syria operations start. Leopard performs bad as it is not modernized against current threats. Need for Leo modernization appears again. First more focus on Sabra modernization. Then starting from 2018-19, news on Leo 2 modernization program. We learn at 2018 that Leo modernization is done under BMC. Not sure BMC would do it with the company "RBSS" they formed with Rheinmetall and Malaysian Company in 2016 or with Aselsan. With the 2018 German embargo, possibility of Rheinmetall is ruled out, later officially confirmed in 2019. BMC's Leo modernization continues until like 2020 then it disappears. In 2021, we see Leotay modernization. Complete rehaul of Leo 2 with overarmored Altay turret. Very cost effective solution. Mmmmmm. Nothing comes out that too. Complete fiasco considering the amount of time and resources provided by political backing and Qatari funding. Then Roketsan who had experience in armor, designs a add-on armor modernization for Leo in like a year. It's a nice cost-effective solution. Now we finally know after a year that Roketsan doing the modernization.

 

[TheInsider]

It seems like Roketsan-Aselsan-FNSS will be upgrading LEO2A4s. Roketsan will provide T1 armor kit, Aselsan will provide electronics systems, FNSS will provide utility systems, and will be the main integrator.

 

[Kartal1]

It seems like Roketsan-Aselsan-FNSS will be upgrading LEO2A4s. Roketsan will provide T1 armor kit, Aselsan will provide electronics systems, FNSS will provide utility systems, and will be the main integrator.

You can't even imagine how much I hope you are right.

 

[Masesebe]

The leo ng upgrade was really costy and also their main focus was developing the altay tank , also the leopard tank reputation got destroyed during syria operation , also now with the new mentality of ssb , they want domestic products , i think the insider got it on point , the same thing happened to sabra tank , first they did some changing and new armor plates , new actice protection system pulat , aselsan electronics with remote weapon station and also lately new volkan firing system .
The same thing will happen to leo , they developed armor kit in a short time which is incredible , aselsan will do its job as always i hope they will add actice protection system , at least pulat system , also fnss is the right place .
Take in mind that this upgrade can be used in other countries .
The altay leo is really not necessary , the tank is heavy and we will waste leo turrets for nothing , and its also very expensive , so we should use that on the real altay which is soon will be produced .
And also in 2024 we can upgrade these leo with new powerpacks from bmc andbelive these leo's will be the best in the world .
Turkey soon will be among the big players in arms dealers around the world , and soon turkey will have access to more geographic area since they will be free from foreign parts , this is the main goal , when we talk domestic products that means everything , without it you are nothing .
Lets hope the best for turkish army and turkish people they came to really close point and a lot of westerns look at turkey as enemy and they will try there best to obstacle them

 

[TheInsider]

Ok, I brought some news regarding the Leo-2A4 modernization. Two companies got the tender papers FNSS and BMC. In the scope of the modernization project, Roketsan and Aselsan are mandatory subcontractors enforced by SSB which is also expressed in the tender papers. BMC or FNSS has to work with Aselsan and Roketsan. BMC is still in the game and they came up with 2 offers. Modernization of existing Leo2A4 as is and/or Leotay (Leopard with Altay turret). Upgrading Leo2 with Altay turret has its own benefits like commonality with Altay ease of maintenance etc. The real question revolves around whether the BMC can deliver it. SSB is taking the Leo2 modernization project slow to earn time for BMC. In the meantime, they are lightly upgrading 40 Leo2s with Roketsan armor kits for immediate needs. Leo2 modernization won't happen this year. It is planned for the next year.

Leo2A4 modernization is a huge upgrade nearly all of the subsystems will be replaced. I will try to write a change list I hope I won't miss some of the subsystems.

Next-generation net-centric Command and control system (Batur)
Electric turret and gun drive
TLUS laser warning system
Yamgöz/DAS 360 degree situational awareness system
Next-generation FCS
RCWS
APS ( Akkor)
New sights, thermals, electro-optic systems, and periscopes
Utility systems like APU, Fire suppression system, Air conditioner, power delivery system
Roketsan T1 add-on armor kit.
Some tanks might get TEPES(telescopic mast)
New GPS/INS navigation system
Aselsan Radios

 

[Saithan]

FNSS would be the right choice imo. They have better grasp of tracked vehicles.

 

[Spook]

Leo2A4 will modernized with ROKETSAN T1 armor kit. Thank God.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401484151279210497

36.753351,38.958747

Addon armor station is at Operation Peace Spring area. Tell Abyad/Akcakale. They probably will also build another station at Ceylanpinar. Get the tanks back inside Turkey, upgrade them. Take them back to operation area. Add-on armor is smart decision. No hassle of putting them to trains. Taking them to a factory. Cost-effective.

 

[Spook]

Ok, I brought some news regarding the Leo-2A4 modernization. Two companies got the tender papers FNSS and BMC. In the scope of the modernization project, Roketsan and Aselsan are mandatory subcontractors enforced by SSB which is also expressed in the tender papers. BMC or FNSS has to work with Aselsan and Roketsan. BMC is still in the game and they came up with 2 offers. Modernization of existing Leo2A4 as is and/or Leotay (Leopard with Altay turret). Upgrading Leo2 with Altay turret has its own benefits like commonality with Altay ease of maintenance etc. The real question revolves around whether the BMC can deliver it. SSB is taking the Leo2 modernization project slow to earn time for BMC. In the meantime, they are lightly upgrading 40 Leo2s with Roketsan armor kits for immediate needs. Leo2 modernization won't happen this year. It is planned for the next year.

Leo2A4 modernization is a huge upgrade nearly all of the subsystems will be replaced. I will try to write a change list I hope I won't miss some of the subsystems.

Next-generation net-centric Command and control system (Batur)
Electric turret and gun drive
TLUS laser warning system
Yamgöz/DAS 360 degree situational awareness system
Next-generation FCS
RCWS
APS ( Akkor)
New sights, thermals, electro-optic systems, and periscopes
Utility systems like APU, Fire suppression system, Air conditioner, power delivery system
Roketsan T1 add-on armor kit.
Some tanks might get TEPES(telescopic mast)
New GPS/INS navigation system
Aselsan Radios

I think Leo tanks in the operation areas will get Roketsan add-on armor upgrade as there is a urgent need. Rest available Leos will get more wide coverage upgrade with new systems.

 

[Turko]

I think instead of loading all LEOs with expensive AKKOR APS we should create new SHORAD platforms.

We have Korkut CIWS which is huge and expensive.

Fixed compact AESA radars with Stingers and gutling gun could be effective against low flying slowUAVs mortars as well as dropping ammunitions like MAM-l.

 

[Spook]

I think instead of loading all LEOs with expensive AKKOR APS we should create new SHORAD platforms.

We have Korkut CIWS which is huge and expensive.

Fixed compact AESA radars with Stingers and gutling gun could be effective against low flying slowUAVs mortars as well as dropping ammunitions like MAM-l.


View attachment 22453

View attachment 22451
View attachment 22454 View attachment 22455

View attachment 22452
View attachment 22456

Portable AESA and C-RAM/UAS Radar is in development

Gatling gun is not ideal for mass adoption. Way too many costs.

Compact 30mm with airburst capability is not as affordable for us either. Korkut turret was designed with cost-effectiveness in mind. It uses already available systems. One of its biggest downsides is its size, obviously. But still more affordable for us than a tailored solution like an compact 30mm air defense turret.

Concept illustrations, bit dated

Aside from Korkut, probably Korhan turret on a wheeled or tracked IFV for V-SHORAD roles.

Leos going to probably get Pulat not Akkor APS.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr. Erdogan: Altay will be delivered at the beginning of 2023

 

[Nutuk]

I wonder where all the BMC supporters are.

 

[TheInsider]

Today, it is useless to produce Altay. It is too late. We should produce like 50 units and move to a new tank with autoloader, unmanned compact turret, decreased crew number, and more autonomy. This new tank should be around 50 tonnes and carry a 1250hp engine(25hp/tonne). We should also extensively upgrade Leo2s and M-60Ts as an interim solution. That will give us around 500 modern tanks which are enough. If not enough, we can even upgrade some older M60s with the new 1000hp BMC powerpack, Aselsan electric driven turret, Aselsan electronics, Pulat APS, and Roketsan armor package. I don't think burying 3-4 billion to an outdated tank is a wise choice.

 

[Ryder]

Waiting for the Altay tank. I know memes dont belong here but this is how most of us feel right now.

 

[Masesebe]

I wonder where all the BMC supporters ar

It will be delivered in 2023 whats the problem with that ?!
There are still no engines available from s.korea , and still the tank should do a lot of tests again since the whole powerplant will be changed .
People should wake up and stop this whining bull shit about the turkish defense industry .
We all saw how a lot of countries pretending that they are friends and in the end they made turkey suffer , like the altay tank for an example .
Lets say the project will be given to another company what is the difference .
The tank will be still without engines .
And now some people will be like oh we have 40 spare engines , well if there are still brain cells in their brain they should save these spare parts for the upgraded fleet of leopard tank .
I am really started to feel disgust of most of the members in this forum .
All what they can do is whine and talk shit about turkey and the current goverment , and we all know that turkey is strong because of the current government and its president erdogan .
In 2023 you can vote against it and bring liars and traitors instead of him and maybe then germany will give some company the approve to use their powerplant because these tanks will be used against turks and only turks .
Look at israel when its about military projects , all of its people stand with the army and the projectsay take a long time but in the end they come with the best quality in the world , the same thing is happening with turkey but all what i see is people whining .

 

[Zafer]

I wonder where all the BMC supporters are.

You don't get it, we don't want tanks, we want and industry that can make tanks whenever we want in every configuration we want. Like hybrids and autoloaders and all. Are we getting there, yes we are.

 

[Masesebe]

Today, it is useless to produce Altay. It is too late. We should produce like 50 units and move to a new tank with autoloader, unmanned compact turret, decreased crew number, and more autonomy. This new tank should be around 50 tonnes and carry a 1250hp engine(25hp/tonne). We should also extensively upgrade Leo2s and M-60Ts as an interim solution. That will give us around 500 modern tanks which are enough. If not enough, we can even upgrade some older M60s with the new 1000hp BMC powerpack, Aselsan electric driven turret, Aselsan electronics, Pulat APS, and Roketsan armor package. I don't think burying 3-4 billion to an outdated tank is a wise choice.

Are you joking ?!
Deciding that the altay tank is useless .
Tanks will be always the backbone of ground forces .