TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Tornadoss]

You don't get it, we don't want tanks, we want and industry that can make tanks whenever we want in every configuration we want. Like hybrids and autoloaders and all. Are we getting there, yes we are.

It was not the aim, was it? If this was the aim , the engine and transmission project also would have started in parallel with the tank project.

 

[Masesebe]

View attachment 24789

Waiting for the Altay tank. I know memes dont belong here but this is how most of us feel rig

It was not the aim, was it? If this was the aim , the engine and transmission project also would have started in parallel with the tank project.

Turkey learned a lot , that it cant be a free state with the right to make a decisions in this world without manufacturing everysingle thing and building a great domestic defense industry .
Thats hard but not impossible , and turkey is going on the right path and it will be a superpower soon if its not getting stop .
Coutries like turkey cant be stopped from the outside , because its out of controlled , the only solution to stop it is from the inside , big countries and even small rich countries are pouring money in turkey to spread chaos , and i think the plan is going well , but we cant decide , everything will be clear after 2023 election , there are two ways for turkey and only two .
The only turks can make that decision and only them will face the consiquinses

 

[Ryder]

It was not the aim, was it? If this was the aim , the engine and transmission project also would have started in parallel with the tank project.

That was a dumb miscalculation on everbodys part. I guess when the Altay was made that such embargoes wont happen because money is too great to lose for these companies.

Germans easily slapped an embargo and the altay stalled.

Life is cruel.

 

[Philips]

Who thought Germany would be so foolish to embargo an ally that was planning to buy 1000 tank powerpacks? The Germans shot themselves in the foot. Not only did they lose their biggest tank customer they had since the end of the cold war, they gained a competitor.

Remember, they can only delay Turkey, not stop it.

 

[TheInsider]

Oh, BTW the problem is not about the powerpack. We have around 20 powerpacks lying around there are also Leo2 engines that are compatible with Altay. BMC supposed to be delivering low production Altays this year with those engines. ~20 Altays would have been enough to set up a training unit. BMC is figuring out how to produce and upgrade ( LEO2 upgrade case) a tank that is the problem. This whole process is a grand example of a shit show.

BMC bid and won a production tender while BMC has no ability to produce a main battle tank. BMC has neither designed nor developed or produced any tracked vehicles up to this day and only produced and upgraded wheeled armored vehicles(BMC has no unique wheeled armored vehicle designs).
BMC knew BMC would get the Tank Palet factory for free before the tender so BMC gave the price accordingly. The Turkish state is still paying and will pay the salaries of the factory personnel.

BMC offer doesn't have utility packages like urban protection tank recovery vehicles etc based on Altay chassis.
BMC promise to set up a separate tank factory(it is one of the obligations of the tender specifications) it is moving at a snail's pace. The main building is still not completed let alone the production line. Initially, Rheinmetall was given the job of setting up the BMC tank factory(a new company called RBSS-Rheinmetall BMC Savunma Sanayi A.Ş) is created but the deal fell through. Otokar and FNSS promised to set up production themselves with little foreign assistance.

BMC thought getting Tank Palet factory will solve the production issues but guess what although there are similarities between producing an SPH(Fırtına) and a main battle tank the process is not exactly the same.

BMC also got rights to producing Fırtına-2 when they got the Tank Palet factory for free. Now BMC is selling T-155 Fırtına-2 to the state, of course, with a good profit(one of the reasons why BMC got the Tank Palet factory) while up to this day the state has been buying Fırtınas for the production cost from its own factory.

The only thing going on for BMC is BMCPower is doing fine because the company is founded by a different group of people who know what they are doing. They have operational autonomy and BMCPower is a separate company from BMC.

 

[BordoEnes]

Mr. Erdogan: Altay will be delivered at the beginning of 2023

Surprising absolutely no one. A braindead monkey could see this coming from hundreds of miles away, yet the BMC cucks lack even those basic brain capacity and functions to recognize this. Seriously why do you do this to yourself? Who do you think you are fooling?

 

[TheInsider]

Tulpar and Altay at Victory Parade on 30 August 2015. By 2016 Altay was ready for production. The tender process was delayed to help BMC come up with an offer.

 

[Ryder]

Tulpar and Altay at Victory Parade on 30 August 2015. By 2016 Altay was ready for production. The tender process was delayed to help BMC come up with an offer.

Werent they prototype models?

Or demo models to show they are ready for production?

 

[TheInsider]

They are production-level prototypes. They are at the BMC facilities now. The first production tanks(T1) will be exactly the same as them.

 

[Ryder]

They are production-level prototypes. They are at the BMC facilities now. The first production tanks(T1) will be exactly the same as them.

Man thats disappointing. Bro how do you know this stuff.

Every time you post I look forward to it.

 

[CAN_TR]

Corruption at it's finest.

Everyone recognizes the famous 4/5 "best and final offers" until BMC made it finally. 2 years and further 18 month later nothing.... over a year passed since the 18 months and? correct nothing! Suddenly out of nowhere 2023.

 

[Khagan1923]

Said last year they will push the date again. BMC has no intention to build this tank. The factory they have been building since 2018 is not even 10% done. Like @TheInsider said.

This whole project is the ideal study for government corruption.

I don’t expect any Altay to be build by BMC. Not getting to political but after the next election this project will be investigated and handed over back either to Otokar or FNSS. Both are fine. One of the main reason someone close to Erdogan sold his shares.

BMC can’t even produce a half decent Leopard 2A4 modernization package (which ended in total disaster, such a one that for the first time ever BMC was excluded for a project) but people think this company will serial produce a top of the line cutting edge MBT for our Land Forces.


Give it to FNSS. Rename BMCPower if it really is independent as @TheInsider said and banish BMC to producing Kirpi and Vuran for the rest of its existence, which I doubt will be very long, as punishment.

 

[Masesebe]

Tulpar and Altay at Victory Parade on 30 August 2015. By 2016 Altay was ready for production. The tender process was delayed to help BMC come up with an offer.

You know , naming you're self the insider doesnt mean you are right all thr time and that you have the accessibility to every project .
When the president erdogan says that the tank will be produced by bmc then thats it .
All the time we see you and other praising otokar company while otokar it self doesnt care about ssb or anyone else , because if it cars about the turkish army they eill fulfill their requirments , but all what they do is bringing foreign and building stuff .
Now you will act like also bmc doing the same by purchasing the design from israel like vuran and kirpi first gen .
Well bmc listened to the army and they did what they asked for and jirpi two was the answer .
Also we should thank fnss , agreat company which is doing the same building great vehicles with a high rate of dometic parts .
While otokar is focusing on exports market .
Dont get me wrong i am not against otokar all yhe way , in the end they can sit and think , they got everything but they dont want to waste money for the sake of turkey .
But people like you making it worse.
In the end you can talk what ever you want and as much as you can until 2023 .
Until 2023 tank project will be bmc project until the people in charge say something else .

 

[Ryder]

You know , naming you're self the insider doesnt mean you are right all thr time and that you have the accessibility to every project .
When the president erdogan says that the tank will be produced by bmc then thats it .
All the time we see you and other praising otokar company while otokar it self doesnt care about ssb or anyone else , because if it cars about the turkish army they eill fulfill their requirments , but all what they do is bringing foreign and building stuff .
Now you will act like also bmc doing the same by purchasing the design from israel like vuran and kirpi first gen .
Well bmc listened to the army and they did what they asked for and jirpi two was the answer .
Also we should thank fnss , agreat company which is doing the same building great vehicles with a high rate of dometic parts .
While otokar is focusing on exports market .
Dont get me wrong i am not against otokar all yhe way , in the end they can sit and think , they got everything but they dont want to waste money for the sake of turkey .
But people like you making it worse.
In the end you can talk what ever you want and as much as you can until 2023 .
Until 2023 tank project will be bmc project until the people in charge say something else .

FNSS is underrated right now they are surpassing both BMC and Otokar.

The future is bright for them.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Mr. Erdogan: Altay will be delivered at the beginning of 2023

I doubt it will be, if it is still in the hands of BMC clowns.
They couldn’t even modernise leo4 tanks.

 

[Masesebe]

FNSS is underrated right now they are surpassing both BMC and Otokar.

The future is bright for them.

I cnat talk shit about fnss , they are a well respected company that produce top quality products and they are not underrated , they made most of the armored tracked vehicle for the turkish army and they are now putting all of their work into the battlefield , most of their vehicles are entering the turkish forces inventory , 12 pars 6x6 are entering the inventory this year , in the coming years 100 pars scout 6x6 and 8x8 will enter the inventory of turksih army , and this vehicle is the highest domestic rate vehicle in turkish .
With the powerplant from tumosan .
And also dont forget the anti tank vehicle project with its number of vehicle is increasing day by day , so a bright day was for them and a brighter future is awaiting for them so dont say they are underrated

 

[Glass🚬]

Said last year they will push the date again. BMC has no intention to build this tank. The factory they have been building since 2018 is not even 10% done. Like @TheInsider said.

This whole project is the ideal study for government corruption.

I don’t expect any Altay to be build by BMC. Not getting to political but after the next election this project will be investigated and handed over back either to Otokar or FNSS. Both are fine. One of the main reason someone close to Erdogan sold his shares.

BMC can’t even produce a half decent Leopard 2A4 modernization package (which ended in total disaster, such a one that for the first time ever BMC was excluded for a project) but people think this company will serial produce a top of the line cutting edge MBT for our Land Forces.


Give it to FNSS. Rename BMCPower if it really is independent as @TheInsider said and banish BMC to producing Kirpi and Vuran for the rest of its existence, which I doubt will be very long, as punishment.

BMC knows whats coming to them post 2023, there is a reason why the leadership is leaving that company.

 

[Anmdt]

So far 6 years and Tank palet is wasted so that BMC can learn to build a tank, it will extend up to 8 years,
What could have been done in those 8 years?:
-Altay T1 could have been perfected and eventually exported by reducing costs,
-Altay T2 could have been matured with the feedback from operations,
-Certain number of units would have been produced and certain number of engines would have been in stocks even embargoes wouldn't affect the very first batch
-Akkor,armor and E/O development would have been faster as it will be needed both for T1 and T2.
-Altay-L/N , light variant could have been prepared for Navy.

 

[TheInsider]

Said last year they will push the date again. BMC has no intention to build this tank. The factory they have been building since 2018 is not even 10% done. Like @TheInsider said.

This whole project is the ideal study for government corruption.

I don’t expect any Altay to be build by BMC. Not getting to political but after the next election this project will be investigated and handed over back either to Otokar or FNSS. Both are fine. One of the main reason someone close to Erdogan sold his shares.

BMC can’t even produce a half decent Leopard 2A4 modernization package (which ended in total disaster, such a one that for the first time ever BMC was excluded for a project) but people think this company will serial produce a top of the line cutting edge MBT for our Land Forces.


Give it to FNSS. Rename BMCPower if it really is independent as @TheInsider said and banish BMC to producing Kirpi and Vuran for the rest of its existence, which I doubt will be very long, as punishment.

The first serial production Altay probably will be delivered in 2023 with the existing powerpacks in small numbers. If everything goes well we might see the first Altay with the national powerpack in 2024. Hopefully, BMC manages to learn how to produce a main battle tank in 5 years (2018-2023). Altay will have similar/comparable performance to upgraded Leo-2A4s(the main difference is the gun L-44 vs L55) and slightly more performance than M-60TM Sabra (Akkor APS vs Pulat APS, L44vsL55)

 

[BordoEnes]

So far 6 years and Tank palet is wasted so that BMC can learn to build a tank, it will extend up to 8 years,
What could have been done in those 8 years?:
-Altay T1 could have been perfected and eventually exported by reducing costs,
-Altay T2 could have been matured with the feedback from operations,
-Certain number of units would have been produced and certain number of engines would have been in stocks even embargoes wouldn't affect the very first batch
-Akkor,armor and E/O development would have been faster as it will be needed both for T1 and T2.
-Altay-L/N , light variant could have been prepared for Navy.

The thing is that all of this would have been completely acceptable had they used all this times to actually improve upon the Altay platform and make it a much better tank that is up to newer and modern standards. The fact that there is simply NOTHING happening to improving the overall capabilities of the tank during this period shows how truly subpar BMC is as an innovative and creative company. I get the feeling either FNSS or Otokar would actually be smart enough to do this. I mean Otokar even developed the Tulpar out of their own pocket because they are actually savy about the desires and needs for armed forces globally. IFV's would be used alongside tanks.

No wonder why so much of their products have been designed and bought from external third party sources who were willing to give up on their intellectual property rights. BMC lacks the creative minds and innovation desire, rather it starting to resemble an entity who's pure desire is to make money, not through competitions and drive force but blatant corruption and favoritism.