TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

Umigami

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Biiiiiiiiig neeeews! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷

BMC Power did it and the national Batu Powerpack; i-e, the engine and the transmission have been started
So happy with BMC Power as it didnt disappoint and congrats for the Turkish nation for its first ever domestic tank engine and domestic transmission


Translation
@bmcpowerresmi is about to complete the integration of the BATU power pack, including the transmission, into the ALTAY main battle tank. On-platform testing is expected to begin soon.

(Note: Both engine and transmission have been

Is this using Korean engine?
 

Osman

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I am sure Aselsan will add smart helmet for tank staff providing 360 degre view. They are working on this. I saw a video of it but could not find
 

Windchime

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Transmission is more critical than the engine, but still big!
S&T Dynamics’ automatic transmission failed in the durability tests six times for the K2 Tank.
A tank transmission must run for 320 hours without defects.
I'm more conservative, but lets see..
Of the 6 failed tests, The first 3 (main pump drive bearing fracture caused by faulty assembly, main housing fracture caused by manufacturing defect, damage to planetary gear caused by faulty heat treatment) were clear-cut technical failures induced by reasons imputable to S&T. The reason for the 4th failure is hard to attribute. 5th test failed due to the testing equipment, which is not a transmission related problem. Reason for the 6th failure has not been determined at the time due to disputes between S&T and DAPA. There's a chance it's clarified now but it hasn't been published yet regardless.

Moreover, ever since the testing campaign was suspended, S&T introduced new core components to the transmission, including those replacing parts from German suppliers. Testing would need to be done again regardless.

This issue was discussed here and the situation of Korean transmission was explained by @Baljak in detail. Just do an “Altay Transmission- Baljak” search and you will see the explanation.
According to @Baljak this was most probably a defective part that needed to be redesigned and remanufactured. And that this is now done. So the new transmission should work.
Apparently according to @Baljak , the MTU engine is a short stroke engine and the Doosan engine is a long stroke engine and has higher torque at lower revs. This introduces unforeseen stresses on the transmission. That may have been the underlying problem in the transmission coupled to a part‘s design defect.
Yes, it is true that MT883 is a short stroke engine whereas DV27K is long stroke. More to be specific, MT883 has a bore width of 144mm to the stroke length of 140mm and is slightly more short stroke than a square engine. DV27K on the other hand is you typical long stroke diesel engine with a bore width of 138mm to stroke length of 150mm. This in part is due to their history of license producing as Daewoo MAN, as well as their past portfolio of developing heavy duty engines based on those MAN engine designs.

DV27K with its long stroke cylinder design has a very comparable/slightly better torque curve compared to the 501K variant of MT883

2015111222105734175.png
2015111222121896284.jpg

These are torque and power curve comparison created by Boltzman a forum member of Korean forum Bemil, based on the officialy published torque and power curves. As you can see, the difference in acceleration speed between the two isn't simply because one's better than the other. It is true though, that the short stroke MT883 will have better throttle response than the DV27K. For that reason the DV27K is already in service with the Korean Army for years. They are also planning to develop a variant of it for the amphibious assault vehicle, similar to the cancelled EFV, under development.

Anyways, we'll know how the S&T EST15K transmission will do in Altay trials. What's concerning though is that I've heard from one of the forum members that Türkiye isn't testing the newest variant with new components, but the older variant. I'm not sure how credible such claim is though. There's also the possibility that the HSWL 295 will be used for the 4th batch of K2 for the Korean Army. That possibility is currently being assessed by DAPA and others involved with the program.
 
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Chocopie

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One use Korean products, another Turkish, basically about anything, armor(which Turkey is very strong with bor carbon), cameras, hard kill system, lazer warning amd so on.
Basic differences out of my head …

Altay: 7 wheels, 65t, 4 men crew because no autoloader, RCWS, higher ballistic protection with modified composite armor based on Korean tech by Roketsan, many Turkish sub-components like Fire Control System, Akkor APS maybe installed.

K2 Black Panther: 6 wheels, 55t, autoloader with 3 men crew, Korean subsystems with laser/radar sensors and FCS, soft kill APS (hard kill KAPS not installed due to tank battle doctrine with nearby infantry), no RCWS (ROK Army generals are stingy)
 

Radonsider

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Basic differences out of my head …

Altay: 7 wheels, 65t, 4 men crew because no autoloader, RCWS, higher ballistic protection with modified composite armor based on Korean tech by Roketsan, many Turkish sub-components like Fire Control System, Akkor APS maybe installed.

K2 Black Panther: 6 wheels, 55t, autoloader with 3 men crew, Korean subsystems with laser/radar sensors and FCS, soft kill APS (hard kill KAPS not installed due to tank battle doctrine with nearby infantry), no RCWS (ROK Army generals are stingy)
One thing to fix, Altay T2 is heavier.

Also uses better Roketsan armour, not similar to T1 which uses Korean tech
 

Saithan

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Perhaps the reason for testing an older tried engine is due to the reliability. I would probably prefer the first 250 Altay to have same engine even if it means an older one as long as it's reliable. The next 250 could be based on a newer tech.
 

Chocopie

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One thing to fix, Altay T2 is heavier.

Also uses better Roketsan armour, not similar to T1 which uses Korean tech
True, I compared the basic versions of both tanks. Composite armor is highly classified, Koreans work continuously on improvements as well.

After Russia‘s flying turret disaster in Ukraine all MBT manufacturers are working like hell to come up with answers against latest ATGM like Javelin and NLAW. Separated ammo compartments, unmanned turrets and modified hard kill APS. Trophy, KAPS, Akkor can‘t protect against top attack missiles until now.
 

Radonsider

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True, I compared the basic versions of both tanks. Composite armor is highly classified, Koreans work on improvements as well.

After Russia‘s flying turret disaster in Ukraine all MBT manufacturers are working like hell to come up with answers against latest ATGM like Javelin and NLAW. Separated ammo compartments, unmanned turrets and modified hard kill APS. Trophy, KAPS, Akkor can‘t protect against top attack missiles until now.
We don't know about Akkor yet, but Trophy's problem is operating angles.

And yes I agree with you
 

Umigami

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Why Turkiye choose to put loader crew instead of Auto loader?
 

Agha Sher

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True, I compared the basic versions of both tanks. Composite armor is highly classified, Koreans work continuously on improvements as well.

After Russia‘s flying turret disaster in Ukraine all MBT manufacturers are working like hell to come up with answers against latest ATGM like Javelin and NLAW. Separated ammo compartments, unmanned turrets and modified hard kill APS. Trophy, KAPS, Akkor can‘t protect against top attack missiles until now.

I believe Akkor is effective against top attack munitions
 

Merzifonlu

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I think Altay will also enter mass production with an unmanned tower. Power pack change and the lessons learned from the Ukraine war dictate this to everyone.

Increased countermeasures against top attack munitions, increased situational awareness with drone integration, separated ammunition compartments, reserved shell for personnel, increased camouflage capabilities, etc.

Tanks of the 21st century will not look like old tanks in many respects.
 

Saithan

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I think Altay will also enter mass production with an unmanned tower. Power pack change and the lessons learned from the Ukraine war dictate this to everyone.

Increased countermeasures against top attack munitions, increased situational awareness with drone integration, separated ammunition compartments, reserved shell for personnel, increased camouflage capabilities, etc.

Tanks of the 21st century will not look like old tanks in many respects.
Perhaps the 2nd generation will be with unmanned turret, but I imagine that 100+ will be with manned turrets to give us time to work on unmanned turrets.

I also think the manned tanks will be out on the field with UAV/drone above to scan for possible threats with ATGM and such. Either to warn the tank or give the tank to position itself better. (akkor, pulat, countermeasure systems).
 

Siper>MMU

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It looks like Altay will enter service in high numbers in 2025~. Beginning production with 100 Korean powerpack plans probably will change after transmissions failure. We would see a lower number of DV27K equipped Altay's. BATU project is running so smoothly.
 

Chocopie

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It looks like Altay will enter service in high numbers in 2025~. Beginning production with 100 Korean powerpack plans probably will change after transmissions failure. We would see a lower number of DV27K equipped Altay's. BATU project is running so smoothly.
The hardest and toughest nut to crack is the transmission gear. German Renk is a class of its own.
 

CAN_TR

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If we gear up for the future then Altay's T1/T2 configuration are already outdated, therefore T3 with unmanned turret and autoloader should be the way to go.
What current conflict are telling us is that you want !!! stuff like active protection systems (APS), advanced optics, laser warning receivers (LWR) and drones for reconnaissance and loitering munition like STM Alpagu.

My 2 cents and wishlist for Santa, 130 mm main gun, 20-30mm RCWS and hybrid-electric engine, please.
 

Combat-Master

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If we gear up for the future then Altay's T1/T2 configuration are already outdated, therefore T3 with unmanned turret and autoloader should be the way to go.
What current conflict are telling us is that you want !!! stuff like active protection systems (APS), advanced optics, laser warning receivers (LWR) and drones for reconnaissance and loitering munition like STM Alpagu.

My 2 cents and wishlist for Santa, 130 mm main gun, 20-30mm RCWS and hybrid-electric engine, please.

Nah, you've been a naughty boy - so you just get S.Korean engine and Tranmission.
 
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