TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[TR_123456]

Any idea why Russian/Sowjet tanks are much lighter than western counterparts?

Quantity over quality,smaller tank faster build.
The Armata is overhyped.

 

[Chocopie]

I think it is too late for Ukraine.

This is possible as long as Japan and Korea continue to go after the US. Already, Japan has a secret embargo on us.

I’m curious, what does Japan secretly embargo towards Turkey? They opened up just recently for weapon exports, quite inept in doing so. No flexibility for customizations and totally unwilling for ToT. And very expensive as well.

But Japanese are fast learners and can adapt well. With high quality products they could become a serious competitor in the global arms market.

 

[Ravenman]

If even Egypt and Pakistan have 5k tanks, we need at least 5000 brand new Altays.

 

[Baryshx]

I’m curious, what does Japan secretly embargo towards Turkey? They opened up just recently for weapon exports, quite inept in doing so. No flexibility for customizations and totally unwilling for ToT. And very expensive as well.

But Japanese are fast learners and can adapt well. With high quality products they could become a serious competitor in the global arms market.

You have to look from Turkiye, you can't see it from there. By the way, they are very keen on military cooperation with countries like India, Vietnam, Australia, for example, is it only because of China? Their policies are also very compatible with the US

Perhaps the problem is that the Japanese foreign policy bureaucracy has very limited experience in building alliances over arms sales, technology transfer and general cost issues.

 

[Huelague]

Quantity over quality,smaller tank faster build.
The Armata is overhyped.

Yes, another point was the “weak” bridges Russian has, which couldn’t handle heavy tanks.

 

[Bmx98]

Quantity over quality,smaller tank faster build.
The Armata is overhyped.

Armata is not overhyped, it's just that the Russians can't mass produce it alone. They are going to need at least a couple other high tech countries assistance to mass produce it. If they had it in large numbers today it would kick any other tank's ass that is currently available.

 

[Tornadoss]

The reason I'm obsessed is correct and this is not wrong. We need to know about the concept of K2 Black Panther. K2 is not a Western MBT over 60 tons with a thick armour as we commonly know it.

K2 is less than 60 tons, hydropneumatic suspension with variable dampers, turrets designed to be extremely flat to reduce the chance of being hit, and maneuver tactics that retreat quickly after deploying the soft-kill active defense multi-spectral granade smoke, all of which were demanded by the South Korean Army.

Unlike the previous K1, most of the major components in the K2 were designed to be extremely lightweight, and the purpose of all of these components was to provide mobility to operate in the rugged mountainous terrain of the Korean Peninsula.

It is clearly different from K2's design idea that the K2 uses the same 1500 horsepower engine as the Leopard, but is slower to accelerate than the Leopard, which is over 60 tons. This is also related to the obsolescence of Korea's current military engine technology. In addition to the Leopard 2 (6 second), M1A2 (7.2 Second) and Challenger you mentioned, Merkava also has a 32 km acceleration performance of 10 seconds. Because these tanks are not designed for maneuverability tactics like K2.

Post-attack defense and rapid retreat are the most important in the design concept pursued by the K2, and this is still at the heart of the Korean Army's mechanized maneuver tactics. The K2 is slower to accelerate than the M1 and Leopard, which weigh more than 65 tons, even though it was developed as a mobility tank. To this day, the K2 power pack, which many military experts in Korea point out, is still below the standard of the South Korean army's ROC. Really still does this look normal to you? Or am I abnormal?

It seems to me that you don't understand why the K2 should have a better engine and transmission than it does now. I think you need to read the post below seriously.

1500마력 전차의 가속력은 <6초>가 정상적

Is K2 and K2PL are different in terms of weight armor etc?

 

[Baljak]

Is K2 and K2PL are different in terms of weight armor etc?

This is my personal guess, but K2PL expects armor to be thicked by stacking more composite ceramic plates in a similar way to Altay. Surely the K2PL will have a better armor than the K2, but this will weigh more than 60 tons. I also think that slat armors will be added to respond more effectively to tandem warheads such as RPGs. And i believe that the ultra-high hardness armor steel developed by the Agency for Defense Development in 2021 will be part of K2PL's Armor package.

Sooner or later, I will write to the forum about the question of armor of the K2 raised recently by the Polish.

 

[Windchime]

Since the mods moved several posts regarding the Korean powerpack to the Korean Forum, I'd like to note that my response to Baljak's misleading/misinformed posts in page 105 have also been moved to the Korean MBT thread as well. If you're interested, take a visit. https://defencehub.live/threads/main-battle-tank-programs.270/page-4#post-245422

 

[NitricAcid]

After the 1500 hp BATU Engine developed by BMC POWER for the ALTAY Tank with national resources, the transmission was successfully operated yesterday. Within 2 months, BATU Engine and Transmission will be brought together and tested as a 'power group'.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620791355562930176

The tests of the 1000 hp UTKU Engine developed by BMC POWER for the FIRTINA Howitzer continue. The UTKU Engine and Transmission, of which 10 prototypes have been produced so far, is aimed to be put into use in 2025.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620791395706605568

 

[Afif]

Good news, if we can finally start the production.

But seems a bit expensive, the initial contract of 200m € comes down to 2m € per tank only for the transmission. The latter option would bring the costs significantly down, but still the initial contract is pretty steep pricing wise.

If that's the case, that's of course a better deal.
Edit: Yeah you're right, I just checked the article, it clearly says power pack including transmission.

I read the actual contract worth around $70 million to supply power packs until 2027.
$130 million is optional in case BMC fails to develop its own power packs by that time.

 

[Enderun]

Turk Loydu has 600 hp AZRA engine for MARLIN SIDA.
Marine version is being developed in accordance with the requirements.
By the end of the year, the adaptation and production will be finished and MARLIN SIDA
It is aimed to make the first trials on it.
Domestic contribution in AZRA engine is over 75%.


750kw UTKU power group will be used in FIRTINA-2. Agreement signed with SSB.
Pre-orders for production have been placed to subcontractors.
UTKU engines will be installed on FIRTINA-2s from 2025
10 UTKU engine prototypes have already been produced.


UTKU Transmission was started in October 2022
UTKU has not been run as a power group yet. It will be run as a power group for the first time in 2 months.
CDR phase completed.
UTKU power group YNHZA and FIRTINA-2 will also be used. It was adapted for FIRTINA and the production order was received.


A ceremony is planned to introduce ALTAY MBT and BATU Power group to the public in the coming months.
6 engine prototypes were produced for BATU Power Group.
The engine in the BATU power group was 1.5 years ago, and the transmission was started last Friday.


The process of combining the engine, transmission and cooling package in the BATU power group continues.
This year, the first operation of the BATU Power Group will be carried out.
BATU engine was run for 1000 hours in the test environment.
According to the BATU power group development specification, 75% of domestic contribution is requested.


BATU mock-up power pack was successfully integrated into ALTAY tank hull chassis mock-up,
It is ensured whether the power group fits in the tank or not.
When the real BATU Power Group is attached to the ALTAY prototype, it will be subjected to a mobility test of 10 thousand kilometers.


In the M60A3 modernization, BMC plans to develop a power pack with a capacity of 1300BG.
The aim is to reduce the BATU power group and to develop the desired 1300 HP power group.
BMC Power is also expected to take part in the integration process of the Korean Power Group's Altay tanks.


BMC - In the Aerospace and Aviation Specialization industrial zone in Ankara (18 thousand square meters of Factory and Office campus for BMC Power)
A new factory will be established on an area of 70 thousand square meters for BMC. There will also be facilities for the production of the ALTAY tank.
Details of the facility, test environment and engine projects will be in our special news soon
@BRAHMSNNNETC1


He started to develop hybrid propulsion systems within BMC Power.
Development studies for land and sea platforms for generators from TTZA, AZRA, UTKU and BATU engines have started.

I would like to thank Mr. Ibrahim Sünnetci for this excellent news.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Turk Loydu has 600 hp AZRA engine for MARLIN SIDA.
Marine version is being developed in accordance with the requirements.
By the end of the year, the adaptation and production will be finished and MARLIN SIDA
It is aimed to make the first trials on it.
Domestic contribution in AZRA engine is over 75%.


750kw UTKU power group will be used in FIRTINA-2. Agreement signed with SSB.
Pre-orders for production have been placed to subcontractors.
UTKU engines will be installed on FIRTINA-2s from 2025
10 UTKU engine prototypes have already been produced.


UTKU Transmission was started in October 2022
UTKU has not been run as a power group yet. It will be run as a power group for the first time in 2 months.
CDR phase completed.
UTKU power group YNHZA and FIRTINA-2 will also be used. It was adapted for FIRTINA and the production order was received.


A ceremony is planned to introduce ALTAY MBT and BATU Power group to the public in the coming months.
6 engine prototypes were produced for BATU Power Group.
The engine in the BATU power group was 1.5 years ago, and the transmission was started last Friday.


The process of combining the engine, transmission and cooling package in the BATU power group continues.
This year, the first operation of the BATU Power Group will be carried out.
BATU engine was run for 1000 hours in the test environment.
According to the BATU power group development specification, 75% of domestic contribution is requested.


BATU mock-up power pack was successfully integrated into ALTAY tank hull chassis mock-up,
It is ensured whether the power group fits in the tank or not.
When the real BATU Power Group is attached to the ALTAY prototype, it will be subjected to a mobility test of 10 thousand kilometers.


In the M60A3 modernization, BMC plans to develop a power pack with a capacity of 1300BG.
The aim is to reduce the BATU power group and to develop the desired 1300 HP power group.
BMC Power is also expected to take part in the integration process of the Korean Power Group's Altay tanks.


BMC - In the Aerospace and Aviation Specialization industrial zone in Ankara (18 thousand square meters of Factory and Office campus for BMC Power)
A new factory will be established on an area of 70 thousand square meters for BMC. There will also be facilities for the production of the ALTAY tank.
Details of the facility, test environment and engine projects will be in our special news soon
@BRAHMSNNNETC1


He started to develop hybrid propulsion systems within BMC Power.
Development studies for land and sea platforms for generators from TTZA, AZRA, UTKU and BATU engines have started.

I would like to thank Mr. Ibrahim Sünnetci for this excellent news.

One step after another we get that annoying ass engine problem in control. Good progress.

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

So TSK will have:

• M60T3 (MZK)
• M60T2 (upgraded Sabra)
• Leopard T1
• Altay

Pretty interesting. The upgraded M60s are perfect for northern Syria ops , meanwhile the upgraded Leopards are a boost to our conventional forces in the West and in TRNC. We just need our marines to replace those awful M48s with Kaplans or something.

I think the initial order of only 100 Altay tanks along with the simultaneous Leo and M60 upgrades is an indication that there are already major changes expected for the next batch of Altay tanks. I personally think we could see a bigger gun, although I'd prefer the incorporation of ETC technology in the cannon. It would be a silver bullet for TSKs tank force.

 

[Ryder]

If even Egypt and Pakistan have 5k tanks, we need at least 5000 brand new Altays.

How many of them are in fighting condition and how many of them are in storage that needs to be asked.

Having 5000 is literally overkill.

Being a bloated military does no good.

I understand why many armed forces do storage incase a total war scenario ensures where ypu have to mobilise both new and old systems.

But also getting rid of storage by selling the weapons is also useful too many armies cant afford a modern professional army even willing to buy second hand stuff.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

Any idea why Russian/Sowjet tanks are much lighter than western counterparts?

In theory , a smaller (and lighter) tank will require less material to produce and provide the same (or same-ish) level of protection. This could help in mass production.

 

[Nutuk]

Having 5000 crap tanks is worthless, Armenians could not use their tanks (they served as target practice for TB2)

 

[Baris]

So TSK will have:

• M60T3 (MZK)
• M60T2 (upgraded Sabra)
• Leopard T1
• Altay

Pretty interesting. The upgraded M60s are perfect for northern Syria ops , meanwhile the upgraded Leopards are a boost to our conventional forces in the West and in TRNC. We just need our marines to replace those awful M48s with Kaplans or something.

I think the initial order of only 100 Altay tanks along with the simultaneous Leo and M60 upgrades is an indication that there are already major changes expected for the next batch of Altay tanks. I personally think we could see a bigger gun, although I'd prefer the incorporation of ETC technology in the cannon. It would be a silver bullet for TSKs tank force.

Leo T1 isn't final, they will be upgraded thoroughly not just armor.

 

[Heartbang]

Having 5000 is literally overkill.

Having 5000 is juuust enough.

we need to be ready to fight in both east AND west SIMULTANEOUSLY. An arc of evil stands around us from Igneada to Hakkari. And when it will push, it will push in unison. We need to be able the hold the line.

 

[Huelague]

Having 5000 is juuust enough.

we need to be ready to fight in both east AND west SIMULTANEOUSLY. An arc of evil stands around us from Igneada to Hakkari. And when it will push, it will push in unison. We need to be able the hold the line.

Thats why we are capable of Hyperwar.