India AMCA Program

Spitfire9

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A second source said that EOI states that all key managerial positions including but not limited to CEO, CFO, COO and the entire Board of Directors shall be held by individuals who are resident Indian citizens. This means, the source added, that no private company can actually hire a foreign talent at the top to spearhead the venture.

The sources also pointed out that annual turn-over of the single/lead company shall have minimum Rs 2,000 crore in the last three financial years (FYs). Also, the non-lead partner should have a minimum annual turnover of Rs 200 crore for the last three FYs.

The only company which fits this criteria is HAL, they said.


I would say that the current Tejas programmes are in the state they are in partly because of less than dynamic leadership from the government down. Excluding talent is not a good idea. Carrying on with the same company that performed so badly with Tejas is not a good idea. The brief seems to be written to ensure that the people institutionalised to accept failure with no sanction will be the people who will be running the show.
 

Nilgiri

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Hmm but would that not be unfair to all the private giants that worked on this project?
After all they could use this as marketing to manufacture stuff for other large defence industries as well.

Common worldwide.

I mean no matter what Boeing, Northrop, Raytheon, L3, Pratt etc provide to F-35........ its still the LM F-35 as LM is the final assembler, past the design and development they did.
 

sup_lol

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Common worldwide.

I mean no matter what Boeing, Northrop, Raytheon, L3, Pratt etc provide to F-35........ its still the LM F-35 as LM is the final assembler, past the design and development they did.
well the issue is that, India is trying to bring up its private defence industry while boeing, Northop, Raytheon etc are well established giants.

Eh idk tbh, we'll see.
 

sup_lol

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I would say that the current Tejas programmes are in the state they are in partly because of less than dynamic leadership from the government down. Excluding talent is not a good idea. Carrying on with the same company that performed so badly with Tejas is not a good idea. The brief seems to be written to ensure that the people institutionalised to accept failure with no sanction will be the people who will be running the show.
If the whole thing is yet again given to HAL i would give up and the thing is only gonna come out by 2040 at the earliest by which time the whole damn world would have moved on the 6th Gen. The only saving grace is that its gonna be designed to be close to 6th gen with MUMT and a lot of other stuff but DEWs or anything of that sort is out of the question because its a medium weight fighter with not even close to enough power.
 

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In a major shift in India’s defence aviation programme, HAL has been excluded from the AMCA project, opening the door for a private-sector-led approach to developing India’s 5th-generation fighter jet. What prompted this unprecedented move by the Indian Air Force? Is it a question of persistent delays, eroding trust, or HAL being stretched thin with existing commitments?

Former IAF fighter pilot Group Captain Ajay Ahlawat offers sharp insights into the thinking within the Air Force in a candid conversation with Consulting Editor Swasti Rao on Worldview with Swasti, unpacking the implications for India’s aerospace future.


 

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The JV engine requirement has been projected around 120-130 KN, probably bcoz some engines have been augmented, like F414 engine of F-18 SH Block-3 has been pushed up to EPE (Enhanced Performance Engine) version with 20% more wet thrust of 117.6 KN from 98 KN.

After tabulating engine parameters whatever i could find of some popular engines like F414-EPE, F119, F135, AL-41, AL-51, WS-15, M-88-TREX, as per some calculations the JV engine in same dimension of F414 has theoretical potential of -
- almost 130KN wet thrust 🥇🏆
- almost 84 KN dry thrust.

Ofcourse materials will matter, but as per alternate calculation, at least 120 KN wet thrust should be possible.
Matching engine parameters as per our desire is damn tricky.🥴
 

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Some details on the AMCA's retractable in-flight refueling (IFR) probe mechanism:

Screenshot_20260502_163606_Chrome.png


Screenshot_20260502_163546_Chrome.png


Screenshot_20260502_163529_Chrome.png


Sourced via another forum.
 

Low IQ Techie

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Others can keep their opinion based on jets with IFRP like F-35, Su-57, etc, but IM🧅 apart from EOTS, i would vouch for a clean shaved cheek like F-22 with spine receptacle, no ladder, one piece canopy w/o arc, TacIRST like multi-function sensor, all these would reduce RCS & improve pilot survival.

Documentaries, articles since decades have shown that surface discontinuities, gaps, bumps, etc need to be minimum even after RAS, RAM treatment bcoz as jets body become smoother, some AAMs & SAMs using wavelengths shorter than X-band & future missiles could be multi-band.

Receptacle system would need additional cost of boom refuelling system, but mixed tankers like KC-46A, A330 MRTT also there. Old gen fighters can refuel by drogue. UCAVs/UAVs depending upon shape, size can be designed to use either system.
Spine IFRP can also be done but AFAIK no X-jet or drone has demonstrated it yet.
 

Spitfire9

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There has long been criticism over India's refusal to invest in the tools needed to develop fighter aircraft - wind tunnels, high altitude test chambers, FTB etc meaning Kaveri and derivatives needed to be tested in Russia, Tejas Mk2 intakes in France. Will this lack of investment in 'the tools needed to do the job' finally come to an end with AMCA?

I have the impression that Turkiye has equipped itself adequately to develop fast jets. Surely India can do the same.

On the requirement that first flight is to be 30 months from signing a contract for prototype building - can that realistically be done? I don't see it but I hope to be proved wrong.
 
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Pokemonte13

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There has long been criticism over India's refusal to invest in the tools needed to develop fighter aircraft - wind tunnels, high altitude test chambers, FTB etc meaning Kaveri and derivatives needed to be tested in Russia, Tejas Mk2 intakes in France. Will this lack of investment in 'the tools needed to do the job' finally come to an end with AMCA?

I have the impression that Turkiye has equipped itself adequately to develop fast jets. Surely India can do the same.

On the requirement that first flight is to be 30 months from signing a contract for prototype building - can that realistically be done? I don't see it but I hope I am wrong.
Well if we take Turkey as a benchmark with similar or worse/better experience in aircraft development its possible but hard. The first part was produced in late November 2021 and made its first flight in February 2024 so roughly 25 months but this was actually a prototype for ground test it was never meant to fly. We also had some experience from the fuselage assembly of the F35 so its possible but unrealistic.
 

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AMCA model spotted at the ORANGE facility near Hyderabad, sourced via Twitter/X (Apple Maps image of May 2026):

AMCA at ORANGE.png


ORANGE is the Open-Range RCS Test Facility located just north of the Air Force Academy outside Hyderabad, southern India:

ORANGE, Dundigal, TG.jpg


It's outfitted somewhat similarly to Skunk Works' Helendale RCS test facility in California:

SnapInsta.to_628362980_18099461149913477_8146135477140357909_n.jpg


SnapInsta.to_629522521_18099461131913477_383073542295432304_n.jpg


There has long been criticism over India's refusal to invest in the tools needed to develop fighter aircraft - wind tunnels, high altitude test chambers, FTB etc meaning Kaveri and derivatives needed to be tested in Russia, Tejas Mk2 intakes in France. Will this lack of investment in 'the tools needed to do the job' finally come to an end with AMCA?

I have the impression that Turkiye has equipped itself adequately to develop fast jets. Surely India can do the same.

Sorry for late reply...

There are extensive trisonic wind tunnel facilities in India, specifically under CSIR-NAL where both Tejas & AMCA models were tested. Along with foreign aircraft models that were later modified to carry Indian stores/weapons:

Gixp-8bbkAE_ktB.jpeg


EbbaYxAX0AEkNt-.jpg


Screenshot 2026-06-10 133602.png


And then there are larger open-circuit facilities at places like IISc where certain configurations are also tested:

Open-circuit-wind-tunnel-1.jpg


What's probably lacking is perhaps a larger lower-speed facility, I'm not aware of what the plan is in that department - per what I've heard there are areas where they expect computation to nullify some of the needs. I have also heard of a new, larger Continuous-flow Trisonic Wind Tunnel (CTWT) under construction though. @Nilgiri is much more informed than me in these aerospace matters.

AMCA's avionics FTB aircraft (Airbus A319 platform) has already been procured and is probably being modified as we speak:

E64b9muUcAARakD.jpg


E65x1NbXEAMLOY4.jpg


As of the Tejas Mk2's inlets, the reason they had to be sent to France's ONERA was because of the new Close-Coupled Canard configuration. ONERA had extensive experience in solving the problems that emerge from CCC due to Rafale development...experience which India was lacking.

I'm not informed enough about what Turkiye has or hasn't done so far to make a comparison.

Engines are a separate program and will require their own infrastructure. I'm aware of a new 130 kN-class Twin Test Cell of the GTRE that's coming up though:

GTRE TTC.png


GiM2W8QbUAAHaVM.jpeg


The upcoming JV engine to be developed with SAFRAN will likely be tested here^^.

As of a flying test bed for the engine, I still haven't heard anything about a domestic platform for that. It's possible we might test it directly on an AMCA demonstrator (kinda like what France did for the M88 on Rafale-A demonstrator). For Kaveri, there are proposals to modify twin-engine aircraft like the MiG-29 to serve as an FTB (one Kaveri, one RD-33). We'll see how they do it.

Gromov option is still there anyway.

On the requirement that first flight is to be 30 months from signing a contract for prototype building - can that realistically be done? I don't see it but I hope to be proved wrong.

As the tweet says, only the project report submission, getting the jigs & fixtures ready, flight of the 4th prototype & finally completion of 1800 sorties are mandatory deadlines (failing to meet which will result in penalties). The rest of the deadlines (including the 30-month one for 1st prototype's flight) is indicative, meaning there's scope for it to shift around.

I expect the execution by Private-sector companies like TASL, L&T or BFL to be much better than HAL though. Most of HAL's programs get delayed due to funding approvals, which require Govt authorization beyond a certain level. That can be a bureaucratic nightmare.
 
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