TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

Zafer

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"G-IHA" is not merely R-IHA and Vestel was tasked with catapult launched UAV not R-IHA.

Kalkan, BAHA whatever in such shape and in such manner of "VTOL" is not navy compliant they won't be able to land or take off even at the slightest wind and gust at sea. Best use is when the weather is calm and to show-off at exercises. Many more has done it before Baykar and none has been mentioned this much.
Baykar's came with a Turkish made engine and the support of thousands employees behind it for a difference. I am not sure how Kalkan will perform but I have seen small drones performing perfectly in gale force winds.
 

Anmdt

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Baykar's came with a Turkish made engine and the support of thousands employees behind it for a difference. I am not sure how Kalkan will perform but I have seen small drones performing perfectly in gale force winds.
Definitely not a thousand, only a fraction of engineers work on Kalkan, like TAI sometimes spare a few. And working with a thousand engineers do not make a project magical thing to beat physics. It is about policy makers.
 

Zafer

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Definitely not a thousand, only a fraction of engineers work on Kalkan, like TAI sometimes spare a few. And working with a thousand engineers do not make a project magical thing to beat physics. It is about policy makers.
Those few engineers have the backing of thousands when they think they are lacking in their efforts. They also use the work of engineers that went into the subsystems they are using on that system. The resulting system would not be possible without the works of engineers that made the components that goes into their product.

Kalkan having those wings will not be as agile as smaller multicopter drones but many of ships' operations are interrupted in high sea conditions and not alone drones. For inoperable condition for Kalkan smaller multirotor drones made by Aselsan and others can be utilized. It is about having the capability to cover all the bases with different tools if not with one magic bullet.
 

Anmdt

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Those few engineers have the backing of thousands when they think they are lacking in their efforts. They also use the work of engineers that went into the subsystems they are using on that system. The resulting system would not be possible without the works of engineers that made the components that goes into their product.

Kalkan having those wings will not be as agile as smaller multicopter drones but many of ships' operations are interrupted in high sea conditions and not alone drones. For inoperable condition for Kalkan smaller multirotor drones made by Aselsan and others can be utilized. It is about having the capability to cover all the bases with different tools if not with one magic bullet.
In an ideal company and world, yes.
When it is bloated like TAI and recently Baykar, no.
What is high sea conditions to you? These kind of drones won't last sea state 2, a light breeze for most mariners.
I don't see Kalkan, Baha or any other that same old VTOLs matching this with electric lift rotors during take off or landing.
+ 25 knots at landing deck, higher than sea state 3.

All we need to do in 10 years;
A schiebel S100 like family of RIHA
A scaneagle like family of catapult launched UAV

I don't want to say that we can't or don't have resources for that, and this leaves only one last option.
 
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Zafer

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In an ideal company and world, yes.
When it is bloated like TAI and recently Baykar, no.
What is high sea conditions to you? These kind of drones won't last sea state 2, a light breeze for most mariners.
I don't see Kalkan, Baha or any other that same old VTOLs matching this with electric lift rotors during take off or landing.
+ 25 knots at landing deck, higher than sea state 3.

All we need to do in 10 years;
A schiebel S100 like family of RIHA
A scaneagle like family of catapult launched UAV

I don't want to say that we can't or don't have resources for that, and this leaves only one last option.
In the VTOL urban air mobility industry people were skeptic that multicopters wouldn't stand a chance in adverse weather conditions but their view changed after they saw the video where a sailor lets go of a small drone from his hand out the door of a sail boat where the drone flies high, takes video of the boat from above and comes back in where the sailor catches the drone at the door. It is a weather where you don't want to step out the door to the deck. I couldn't find the video on the net with a quick look.
 

boredaf

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In an ideal company and world, yes.
When it is bloated like TAI and recently Baykar, no.
What is high sea conditions to you? These kind of drones won't last sea state 2, a light breeze for most mariners.
I don't see Kalkan, Baha or any other that same old VTOLs matching this with electric lift rotors during take off or landing.
+ 25 knots at landing deck, higher than sea state 3.

All we need to do in 10 years;
A schiebel S100 like family of RIHA
A scaneagle like family of catapult launched UAV

I don't want to say that we can't or don't have resources for that, and this leaves only one last option.
Mate, you're cosplaying Sisyphus arguing with him, you'll never roll that boulder over that hill.
 

Zafer

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Larger shipbourne helicopter drones became useless before they even became useful for observation purposes.
 

Anmdt

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In the VTOL urban air mobility industry people were skeptic that multicopters wouldn't stand a chance in adverse weather conditions but their view changed after they saw the video where a sailor lets go of a small drone from his hand out the door of a sail boat where the drone flies high, takes video of the boat from above and comes back in where the sailor catches the drone at the door. It is a weather where you don't want to step out the door to the deck. I couldn't find the video on the net with a quick look.
Those quadcopters are "helicopter" in a sense, BAHA, KALKAN is not VTOL in the same way, they both have a huge wing area that would lead platform to tip over far greater than those VTOL blades can compensate, in case of a 25 kts cross wind.
Larger shipbourne helicopter drones became useless before they even became useful for observation purposes.
S100 is tiny I would say even more compact than Kalkan or BAHA.:
1714566196859.jpeg


Scaneagle, launched with catapult, retrieved with a simple setup:
1714566552378.jpeg


Our industry failed to provide something such particularly because some decision makers have not thought of time being right until certain actors free their hands of certain show-business. And those who can develop it have gone off the easy way, avoided cumbersome engineering processes and R&D.
 

Zafer

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Electric propulsion only recently became capable of supporting useful loads for justifiable duration.

You need to be able to put together best of everything to make a compelling product.
  • domestic fuel injected piston engine for long endurance
  • domestic high zoom camera for high quality visuals
are prerequisites for a high quality product

Looking at Bayraktar Kalkan DİHA specs one can find everything desirable with such a product. The only thing that needs to be proven on the field remains to be its weather resilience. If it proves to be usable in a wide range of use cases it will be a fantastic solution to VTOL needs of the navy and possibly other users worldwide. Also with the prospects of larger payload capacities in the future.

Nana19GESkrA2A9k5vEB5LUaR9pFCWHN.png


 

Anmdt

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If it proves to be usable in a wide range of use cases it will be a fantastic solution to VTOL needs of the navy and possibly other users worldwide. Also with the prospects of larger payload capacities in the future.
Yeah with 2 kg of payload with 50 MTOW and vs: 50kg payload to 200 MTOW.

scale it up to 50 kg and the platform itself becomes huge and not compact.

I don't even dare to compare it with scaneagle in terms of numbers or deploy-ability , my heart doesn't take it.

and we come to starting to point, we had better places to spend the money poured for Atak-II and we didnt for multiple not-so nice reasons.
 
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Zafer

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Yeah with 2 kg of payload with 50 MTOW and vs: 50kg payload to 200 MTOW.

scale it up to 50 kg and the platform itself becomes huge and not compact.

I don't even dare to compare it with scaneagle in terms of numbers or deploy-ability , my heart doesn't take it.

and we come to starting to point, we had better places to spend the money poured for Atak-II and we didnt for multiple not-so nice reasons.
Kalkan can already do 12 hours as it is while Schiebel does half as much. While Kalkan has larger wingspan it does not need a catapult or recovery net to operate like the Scaneagle. Kalkan is more practical than others in every way. Easier to handle with a smaller weight than Schiebel too.

kalkan.png
 

Anmdt

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Kalkan can already do 12 hours as it is while Schiebel does half as much. While Kalkan has larger wingspan it does not need a catapult or recovery net to operate like the Scaneagle. Kalkan is more practical than others in every way. Easier to handle with a smaller weight than Schiebel too.

View attachment 67713
Yeah whatever man, check out the operators list for both scaneagle and schiebel and what a proven concept succeeds in comparison to one that has been around for too long and not much interesting for navies.

Meanwhile also care to compare scaneagle's more than 2 kg far superior camera, longer deployment and ease of launch and retrieval even at the most adverse weather conditions, and schiebel's 50 kg of payload that can optionally extend duration to double fo what is given and accompanied with a camera again superior than what Kalkan is carrying.

We are taking easy short cuts and it won't cut the deal in the field, conceptually it does on the paper but practically, a big no. Both qualitive and quantatively it offers none but an easy solution for the company.
 

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Isn't the main gearbox of ATAK-II the same as T-925? I always saw the test flight last year as more of proof of concept for the mechanical portions of both, placed in a attack helicopter shell for... reasons. It isn't a big deal if ATAK-II is put on the back burner as long as progress is being made on T-925, which is far more important in my opinion. Whether that's the case remains to be seen, especially with Motor Sich being out of commission. That's what saddens me.
 

Sanchez

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Gendarme’s first batch of helicopters won’t use TS1400. Delays still apparent and now the revised delivery timeline is “this year”.
Quoting from April for my traditional T625 updates.

We’re nearing end of Q2 of 2024 and still no deliveries for T625. Hoping for Q3.
 

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Per Temel Kotil:

- T925's first flight is in 2025 and the delivery is in 2026.(at 48:20 in the video)

- Siemens PLM was used to design Gökbey helicopter.

 

boredaf

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Per Temel Kotil:

- T925's first flight is in 2025 and the delivery is in 2026.(at 48:20 in the video)

- Siemens PLM was used to design Gökbey helicopter.

He also said they would deliver T929 in 2025 before the project disappeared. And I'm not even mentioning Schrödinger's Gökbey, a helicopter that has been delivered and will be delivered at the same time.

Grain of salt and all that...
 

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He also said they would deliver T929 in 2025 before the project disappeared. And I'm not even mentioning Schrödinger's Gökbey, a helicopter that has been delivered and will be delivered at the same time.

Grain of salt and all that...
We have no engines for this project, I'm sorry but unless something drastic happened this and T-929 are pretty much on ice for the time being.
TAI should focus on delivering Gökbey and getting the serial production up and running.

And the Navy should go and order some AW101.
 

boredaf

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TAI should focus on delivering Gökbey and getting the serial production up and running.
I agree, while T925 is a necessity, spending time and resources on one more project without the engine for it is just... well, it is actually our speciality but it really shouldn't be.

Make T-70 and T-129 until their licenses are over, focus on production of T625 and if necessary make T629 (if TS1400 can power it), which is also another helicopter project disappeared silently.
 
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