TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Timur]

USA makes Abrams tank. With today’s money it comes to around 9.8 million dollars each. We make Altay with “cheap Turkish work force” . It comes to over 16 million dollars each. There are economies of scale here in play. But also a lot of middle men creaming the top. SOM and Atmaca missiles cost almost as much as the US counterparts. Atak129 helicopter costs 50 million dollars. For 3 Super cobra helicopters in 2011 we paid 111 million dollars. 37 million each. But with today’s money it will be over 40 million. So the real prices that Turkish MOD pays for these, are similar to US equivalents.

But most of the money does not leave the country and that's what is worth it even if we would pay a little more than us counterparts

 

[Yasar_TR]

But most of the money does not leave the country and that's what is worth it even if we would pay a little more than us counterparts

Exactly! Even if it costs more, local production is the key!

 

[Blank1]

USA makes Abrams tank. With today’s money it comes to around 9.8 million dollars each. We make Altay with “cheap Turkish work force” . It comes to over 16 million dollars each. There are economies of scale here in play. But also a lot of middle men creaming the top. SOM and Atmaca missiles cost almost as much as the US counterparts. Atak129 helicopter costs 50 million dollars. For 3 Super cobra helicopters in 2011 we paid 111 million dollars. 37 million each. But with today’s money it will be over 40 million. So the real prices that Turkish MOD pays for these, are similar to US equivalents.

I believe Atmaca missile is cheaper then that of harpoon, i read it some where.
Local weapon manufacturing is a must, you cant win a war with purchased weapons or India, Saudi and UAE would have crushed all of there opponents. Local made weapons gave Turkey a powerful punch which was witnessed in Syria, Libya and In Karabakh.

 

[Blank1]

Dose any one know when will we see Tamreen missile or what ever that thing is called now. Was it cancelled, renamed or shelved ? The penguin equivalent missile (heavy Umtas) for Atak II.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I believe Atmaca missile is cheaper then that of harpoon, i read it some where.
Local weapon manufacturing is a must, you cant win a war with purchased weapons or India, Saudi and UAE would have crushed all of there opponents. Local made weapons gave Turkey a powerful punch which was witnessed in Syria, Libya and In Karabakh.

Atmaca missile is expected to be around 1.2 millon dolars. But prices should come down with locally sourced englne - ktj3200 - .
Also as more orders are placed cheaper prices can be attained. Harpoon Block 2 which is very similar in performance is close to 1.4 million dollars. ( Our Harpoons on our current ships are block 1 and are much cheaper ; around 600 thousand dollars)
Latest test of Atmaca was a revelation. Without a radar lock and no GPS , it managed to hit target with a precision strike. Two way data- link course correction and IIR guidance at terminal phase proved to be very precise. In this mode it would be close to impossible to intercept, especially with it‘s terminal phase maneuvering to evade ship defences.
As I have said before I am all for locally produced equipment. Even if it is more costly.

 

[AzeriTank]

Atmaca missile is expected to be around 1.2 million dolars. But prices should come down with locally sourced englne - ktj3200 - .
Also as more orders are placed cheaper prices can be attained. Harpoon Block 2 which is very similar in performance is close to 1.4 million dollars. ( Our Harpoons on our current ships are block 1 and are much cheaper ; around 600 thousand dollars)
Latest test of Atmaca was a revelation. Without a radar lock and no GPS , it managed to hit target with a precision strike. Two way data- link course correction and IIR guidance at terminal phase proved to be very precise. In this mode it would be close to impossible to intercept, especially with it‘s terminal phase maneuvering to evade ship defences.
As I have said before I am all for locally produced equipment. Even if it is more costly.

you just jump to say price of missiles or tanks that totally wrong.. come on... show me a single place where officially were told about the price of Altay or American one? now you talk about Atmaca price? stop it..

 

[Yasar_TR]

Dose any one know when will we see Tamreen missile or what ever that thing is called now. Was it cancelled, renamed or shelved ? The penguin equivalent missile (heavy Umtas) for Atak II.

Temren missile has become a myth! Yes these were to be produced to replace the ageing Penguin anti ship missiles fired from S60 Seahawk helicopters. We have 24 Sea Hawks so this missile with a range of 35-50 km is important.
First trials were with a L-Umtas missile adapted for seahawks. But these missiles have range of 8km. So it was said to be produced as Temren with two different ranges of 18 and 32 km. But it has not materialised.
I believe now that we have Atmaca and a TJ300 engine produced by TEI; a 100-120 km range mini Atmaca; MRASM (Medium Range Anti Ship Missile) helicopter launched missile will be more appropriate and useful. It will be a stand off missile too!

 

[Anmdt]

Temren missile has become a myth! Yes these were to be produced to replace the ageing Penguin anti ship missiles fired from S60 Seahawk helicopters. We have 24 Sea Hawks so this missile with a range of 35-50 km is important.
First trials were with a L-Umtas missile adapted for seahawks. But these missiles have range of 8km. So it was said to be produced as Temren with two different ranges of 18 and 32 km. But it has not materialised.
I believe now that we have Atmaca and a TJ300 engine produced by TEI; a 100-120 km range mini Atmaca; MRASM (Medium Range Anti Ship Missile) helicopter launched missile will be more appropriate and useful. It will be a stand off missile too!

Medium range anti-ship missile project i presume? I doubt if it will be penguin equivalent, but if needed a smaller air launched missile can be squeezed after MRAShM.
I don't know what happened to TEMREN as well, it was a modified UMTAS, with different warhead and guidance algorithm, probably had longer range than UMTAS.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Medium range anti-ship missile project i presume? I doubt if it will be penguin equivalent, but if needed a smaller air launched missile can be squeezed after MRAShM.

YES. But I was contemplating that a Medium range anti ship missile with a range of approximately 100km range would be better than a Temren with a range of 32km.
Of course, penguin is a high subsonic solid propellant anti ship missile. A longer range L-Umtas is a closer equivalent (as Umtas is a hell fire replacement it’s speed should be supersonic). So cost wise a MRaShM would be dearer. It would not be an equivalent per se.

 

[Anmdt]

YES. But I was contemplating that a Medium range anti ship missile with a range of approximately 100km range would be better than a Temren with a range of 32km.
Of course, penguin is a high subsonic solid propellant anti ship missile. A longer range L-Umtas is a true equivalent. So cost wise a MRaShM would be dearer. It would not be an equivalent per se.

Atmaca AShM was solid-propellant in the first times as well, i wonder why the know-how wasn't used for Temren, or Navy doesn't want solid-propellants for these missiles anymore? Who knows.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Turkish institutes are following a similar roadway with MBDA in terms of naval missiles and Turkey is establishing capable rotorcraft naval aviation concept similar to French Navy. SeaTiger (NH90) vs TAI 12t naval utility; Lynx Mk2 (6t) vs T-625 Gökbey Naval (6t) (If required); and Tiger (6t) helicopter vs 12t Naval Atak-2 helicopter. A country that is investing on naval helicopters in this scale will need powerful helicopter-mounted anti-ship missiles that will be effective against enemy surface combatants. It is a must for these helicopter to stay out of effective range of enemy short/close range defensive missiles. “Temren” missile will meet this requirement of Turkish Navy in these helicopters.

 

[Blank1]

Turkish institutes are following a similar roadway with MBDA in terms of naval missiles and Turkey is establishing capable rotorcraft naval aviation concept similar to French Navy. SeaTiger (NH90) vs TAI 12t naval utility; Lynx Mk2 (6t) vs T-625 Gökbey Naval (6t) (If required); and Tiger (6t) helicopter vs 12t Naval Atak-2 helicopter. A country that is investing on naval helicopters in this scale will need powerful helicopter-mounted anti-ship missiles that will be effective against enemy surface combatants. It is a must for these helicopter to stay out of effective range of enemy short/close range defensive missiles. “Temren” missile will meet this requirement of Turkish Navy in these helicopters.

One member said that Temren missile is myth ? Its been a long time that we haven't heard about.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

One member said that Temren missile is myth ? Its been a long time that we haven't heard about.
And please some one invite the MMM-E guy here from PDF i am just a spectator there. Thanks

Each project has a level of secrecy and institutes/workers/people must comply with these rules. Violating the rules about strategic programs will have severe punishment. Navy is strict to secrecy rules in their missile programs. It is the reason public are being less informed about some programs. It doesn’t mean the project was cancelled.

 

[Reviewbrah]

Each project has a level of secrecy and institutes/workers/people must comply with these rules. Violating the rules about strategic programs will have severe punishment. Navy is strict to secrecy rules in their missile programs. It is the reason public are being less informed about some programs. It doesn’t mean the project was cancelled.

A good example is Gezgin

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341104101401255944

İbrahim Sünnetçi deleted all of his twitter floods and twitter account because he was sharing detailed info in general

We learned info about Gezgin's engine because of Ukrainians, they also posted documents of Baykar acquiring Ukro engines too. They mainly do it for internal consumption, hey look we are actually selling stuff!

Ukraine is a bad country to work with for opsec. Thats is one of the main reasons why manufacturing has to shift to Turkey asap.

 

[Yasar_TR]

It is very important that not everything is revealed to the public when it comes to strategic military matters.
Bora2, Gezgin, Temren, MRAShM, Atmaca, MIUS, Ramjet/Scramjet
These are just a few strategic weapons we have that are may be ready or still under development, really need to be kept under wraps as much as possible.
Some info may be released by SSB as it may have become too public to hide it or to show target countries the “stick”.

 

[Huelague]

A weak person show his full power and more. A strong person hide his real power.

 

[Test7]

I think the first photo from Gokbey's flight test

 

[Agha Sher]

I think the first photo from Gokbey's flight test

View attachment 9914

Is this a recent test flight?

 

[Test7]

Is this a recent test flight?

Most likely it is from this summer. We've never seen this test photo before.

 

[ANGMAR]

looks like the AW109