TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Chocopie]

It probably won’t happen.
They did some flirting with Roketsan for joint collaboration on MLRS and a signed a MOU, then they turned to Chunmoo-239 deal.

It always boils down to tech transfer, local production share and loan financed procurement. MOUs are often worthless pieces of paper.

Poland took out a $9 billion loan in Korea for the first batch of arms deals of K2, K9 and K239 in 2022.
Now they‘re requesting further $15.6 billion in loans from Korean banks for the second weapons batch …

At the end of the day, Poland is a reliable creditworthy partner, not like the other, ahem, red-white flagged debtor …

Poland asked South Korea for an arms loan

Poland requested $15.6 billion in financial support from Korea to fulfill its second defense contract.

mil.in.ua

 

[Isbara]

It always boils down to tech transfer, local production share and loan financed procurement. MOUs are often worthless pieces of paper.

Poland took out a $9 billion loan in Korea for the first batch of arms deals of K2, K9 and K239 in 2022.
Now they‘re requesting further $15.6 billion in loans from Korean banks for the second weapons batch …

At the end of the day, Poland is a reliable creditworthy partner, not like the other, ahem, red-white flagged debtor …

Poland asked South Korea for an arms loan

Poland requested $15.6 billion in financial support from Korea to fulfill its second defense contract.

mil.in.ua

I think this bolded part of your post is the main reason why we could not export major platforms to Poland or others.
Finansing and offering long term credidts also matters as much as the quality of the products you want to export. No matter how good your products are, will buy them unless they can afford them.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691715519575904568

 

[Chocopie]

I think this bolded part of your post is the main reason why we could not export major platforms to Poland or others.
Finansing and offering long term credidts also matters as much as the quality of the products you want to export. No matter how good your products are, will buy them unless they can afford them.

True, loans and long term credits provided by exim banks of the weapon exporting country is standard international practice. So as a top arms exporter you need a sound financial backbone and a healthy national economy to back up the defense sector.

There were obviously also other deciding factors in the Polish-Korean deals like MIC capacity of hot production lines and fast delivery time. The Poles were interested in Korean heavy armor years before the Russian invasion in Ukraine, that war speeded up sealing the deals.

 

[Afif]

Just leaving it here. Mod can move it if they think some other thread would be more suitable.

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ASELSAN announced its first half profit​

ASELSAN's financial results for the first half of 2023 have been announced. Having increased its profits by 42% in the first six months, ASELSAN's six-month turnover increased by 67% compared to the same period of the previous year and reached TL 18.1 billion.

While the gross profit of the company increased by 68% compared to the first half of last year; Earnings Before Interest, Depreciation and Taxes (EBITDA) increased by 62% compared to the same period of the previous year and reached TL 4.4 billion. The EBITDA margin was 24%. ASELSAN's net profit increased by 42% compared to the same period of the previous year and reached 5.4 billion TL. The company's equity to assets ratio was 51%.


ASELSAN General Manager Ahmet Akyol emphasized that the company continues its sustainable growth. Commenting on ASELSAN's first half financial results, Akyol said:

We Work for Value Added Exports​

“Our ASELSAN continued to write new success stories in the first six months of the year. According to the financial results, we left the first half of 2023 behind with a high profitability rate and success. In the first half of 2023, when we signed new contracts, ASELSAN's balance orders reached 8.4 billion USD.

In the first six months of 2023, we paid approximately 17.8 billion TL to our suppliers. In the first six months of 2023, we successfully completed the nationalization of 68 products. While leading Turkey in military technology, we have increased the number of products we have nationalized to 738 in the last five years. Thus, we ensured that a size of over 900 million dollars remained in our country.


At the same time, we signed important export contracts in the first six-month period. I believe that we will see the positive reflections of these contracts in the coming periods. In the coming period, we want to increase our exports, focus on high technology and reach a higher nationality rate.

​

Our Country's National Power in Sustainability​

While maintaining our steady growth, we continue to be Turkey's national power in terms of sustainability. For this reason, we adopt the vision of being a technology company that maintains its sustainable growth, is preferred with its competitive power, is trusted, sensitive to the environment and people. While we undertake important tasks in many different areas of life with the advanced technologies we produce, we also prioritize sustainability. With the highly competitive solutions we offer to our users at home and abroad, we will provide the highest inputs to our country's value-added export targets. With the strength we derive from our nation, we will continue to undertake groundbreaking national projects.”

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ASELSAN ilk yarı kârını açıkladı | SavunmaSanayiST

ASELSAN ilk altı aylık dönemde kârını artıran ASELSAN’ın altı aylık cirosu geçen yılın aynı dönemine göre büyüyerek 18,1 milyar TL’ye ulaştı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[R4duga]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691366024153620480

 

[Nilgiri]

As far as I'm aware, the deal is still on and continuing. Maybe some of our fellow Indian members can chime in? @Nilgiri

There is progress now (funds allotted) and likely with TR participation. More details will come with time this year hopefully.

(Convo chain here )

Indian Navy

Does Nilgiri class frigates feature VDS for ASW? The Atlas Elektronik ACTAS has variable-depth capability and has been fitted onto Talwar-class as well as Shivalik-class. In all likelihood the same model will go onboard Nilgiri as well. But it may or may not have it at the outset.

defencehub.live

TAIS member Anadolu Shipyard was seeking for a project manager-supervisor to be settled in India.They have got one, so it should be from Anadolu Shipyard.

 

[SavunmaSanayiST.com]

Türkiye recently held the “Keel Laying Ceremony” for the second MİLGEM Corvette that they have built for the Ukrainian Navy.

Under the main contract of STM, Türkiye continues to construct corvette-type naval warships for the Ukrainian Navy. Ukraine had placed a definite order with Türkiye for two MİLGEM Corvettes and two more is still an option. The first corvette was launched last year.

The construction of the second corvette has started in March of this year and recently, STM held a keel-laying ceremony for the second corvette with four blocks already on the slipway.

The Ukrainian Ministry of Defence delegation, consisting of representatives from Ministry of Defence of Ukraine, Navy of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the first ship’s crew , attended the ceremony. The Ukrainian Navy emphasized that the construction processes of both of the Ukrainian MILGEM corvettes continue in accordance with the schedule.

However, Ukraine is predicted to increase its MİLGEM ADA Class Corvette order to four. According to Vasyl Bodnar, the Ambassador of Ukraine to Ankara, who commented on the issue, “We have a memorandum of understanding signed earlier for 4 corvettes, and this is subject to the situation on the front line. We will observe how the construction proceeds and identify suitable locations for it.

Another consideration was to continue the construction at Ukrainian shipyards. However, due to ongoing military operations and risks, it is probable that the corvettes will be built in Türkiye.”

Account Suspended

 

[uçuyorum]

They do still need trained personnel and even if they get all 4 corvettes they will need a safe port and couple submarines and additional vessels to support these in proper operation. So probably these ships are going to be more relevant once the war is over for keeping the peace. Does Ukraine have any safe place for ports right now? I imagine they still would need to take most of Kherson oblast to secure Odessa

 

[SavunmaSanayiST.com]

They do still need trained personnel and even if they get all 4 corvettes they will need a safe port and couple submarines and additional vessels to support these in proper operation. So probably these ships are going to be more relevant once the war is over for keeping the peace. Does Ukraine have any safe place for ports right now? I imagine they still would need to take most of Kherson oblast to secure Odessa

They cannot enter the Black Sea when they are already at war.

They are hosted in allied countries for a while. During this time, necessary training activities are carried out.

 

[B_A]

ADA Class is selling like hotcakes.

And holy cow! Ukriane bought 2 ADA corvettes for $260 millions only.

that figure is still baffling to me, but it seems almost all defence news reported the same.

(Initial contract was $236 millions. But given the variation in the configuration and workshare it increased to $260 millions.)

Chief of Ukrainian navy stated first ship is costing around 150 millions only.

Ukrainian Ada will provide Air Defence Missions | TURDEF

Ukraine will acquire two Ada Class corvettes from Turkiye. Turkish Navy used them for ASW, but Ukrainian corvettes will serve for air defence missions.

www.turdef.com

Recently, Malaysian Ada is costing $177 millions per ship. (If the original budget of $530 millions for three ships did not increased)

However, on the other hand, the original and Pak Milgem program cost was $250 millions per ship.

I find Such wide variations in cost very interesting.

Didnt Pakistan use Chinese missiles on the ship and then change to UK one?I think that s the redesign price

 

[Agha Sher]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693517691217121776

Bangladesh will use Roketsan Cirit for their Falco UAVs

 

[Sanchez]

Apparently Dearsan built and exported a mid size hovercraft(s?) to Turkmen Navy??

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693523561116324009

 

[Afif]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693517691217121776

Bangladesh will use Roketsan Cirit for their Falco UAVs

It would be interesting if they can integrate Cirit with upcoming indeginous UAV. (Likely to be similar in size and weight to Falco)

While people do not take these small and cheap guided rockets seriously anymore, but i think they ought to make a comeback in public disscusion.

That's because new generation armoured vehicles are being equipped with APS. Which would likely to defeat current ATGM. (Spike, javelin, Akeron MP, Omtas, etc)

However with an optimized combination of Cirit and Umtas/Omtas or Cirit and MAM L, it is practically possible to defeat APS.

Here how it would work.
3/4 Cirits would be launched in volley.
While it won't penetrate the Tank's armour but will definitely overwhelm the active protection system and knock out the turret's electronic sensors. (Thermal sights, laser warning receivers and radar panels of APS)
Then it would be followed by ATGM or smart ammunition.

I think that is how TB-2 would adapt to new generation threats equipped with active protection systems.
Instead of 4 MAM-L, it will carry 2 in one wing and Cirit launcher in the other wing.

 

[Gessler]

There is progress now (funds allotted) and likely with TR participation. More details will come with time this year hopefully.

(Convo chain here )

Indian Navy

Does Nilgiri class frigates feature VDS for ASW? The Atlas Elektronik ACTAS has variable-depth capability and has been fitted onto Talwar-class as well as Shivalik-class. In all likelihood the same model will go onboard Nilgiri as well. But it may or may not have it at the outset.

defencehub.live

"India had earlier negotiated with TAIS over fleet support vessels, but in the end it decided to go with an indigenous design."

Fleet support vessels are approved for the Indian Navy | Shephard

India is set to proceed with the construction of five indigenously built replenishment vessels.

www.shephardmedia.com

So it's not the TAIS design.

 

[Anmdt]

"India had earlier negotiated with TAIS over fleet support vessels, but in the end it decided to go with an indigenous design."

Fleet support vessels are approved for the Indian Navy | Shephard

India is set to proceed with the construction of five indigenously built replenishment vessels.

www.shephardmedia.com

So it's not the TAIS design.

Can't read the full article but ingenuously built (mentioned at the headline) does not refer to an indigenous design, it was meant to be constructed in India all along.

 

[Gessler]

Can't read the full article but ingenuously built (mentioned at the headline) does not refer to an indigenous design, it was meant to be constructed in India all along.

I don't have a subscription either, will see if I can find other sources.

I was wondering because the article specifically mentioned indigenous design in the image title at the top.

 

[Sanchez]

HSL still looks to be the lead, which was TAIS' partner.

Navy's Rs 20000 cr Fleet Support Ship project cleared, 5 ships to be built by Hindustan Shipyard

Hindustan Shipyard Rs 20000 Crore Indian Navy: The five vessels, being built by the Visakhapatnam-based defence ministry's Hindustan Shipyard Limited, will help the Indian Navy in replenishing its warships with fuel, food and ammunition.

government.economictimes.indiatimes.com

Tho with this much delay, wouldn't be surprising if they decided to go in alone.

 

[Gessler]

"India had earlier negotiated with TAIS over fleet support vessels, but in the end it decided to go with an indigenous design."

Fleet support vessels are approved for the Indian Navy | Shephard

India is set to proceed with the construction of five indigenously built replenishment vessels.

www.shephardmedia.com

So it's not the TAIS design.

Okay so I created a free account (you can too, you get 1 free article per month I think).

I don't think it's okay to copy paste an otherwise paywalled article, so I'll just paraphrase (anyone interested can just create a free account & read)

Basically, it's saying that the TAIS deal was terminated due to political differences. But the Navy's requirement was still there so HSL (which is state-owned) cobbled together a consortium of local companies to take on the project by itself.

It's not mentioned if the WDB (Navy's own design bureau, previously known as DND, which designs most of India's locally-built warships including the Carrier) is involved or not, but judging by the language used (small & medium enterprises) it's likely that HSL instead went to smaller independent firms, possibly from Private sector (Vik Sandvik comes to mind).

But there are no details as to the companies actually involved.

Guess it's better to wait for more details...has there been any release from the TAIS side? If they won any contract for consultancy and/or design, would they announce it? @Anmdt

 

[Anmdt]

Basically, it's saying that the TAIS deal was terminated due to political differences. But the Navy's requirement was still there so HSL (which is state-owned) cobbled together a consortium of local companies to take on the project by itself.

If this was possible, why wouldn't they do it earlier? Even such a consortium would end up outsourcing a western design bureu for doing the design and leading the construction (assuming lack of the experience on such platforms was the prime cause for looking a foreign partner).

And if i am not mistaken there were other likely candidates and TAIS has given the best offer, so why not going for other candidates if the TAIS deal ceased due to the political differences.

Guess it's better to wait for more details...has there been any release from the TAIS side? If they won any contract for consultancy and/or design, would they announce it?

No they wouldn't, the companies here wouldn't care announcing such a thing unless they are listed in stock exchange or it does contribute for another deal. For this case they might have been (just assuming) advised to remain silent as possible.

But i remember they (Anadolu Shipyard, member of TAIS, who has done the deal with HSL) was looking for a project manager - supervisor to settle in India during project timeline and they have got a person (not like hired but agreed with someone). Need to ask some people if it is going through.