TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Anmdt]

People love to claim Karayel vestel/lentatek got screwed over by nepotism and make up this story that isnt real.

Lentatek belongs to Zorlu afaik. Which have deep ties with Erdo. This damat drone vs kemalist drone BS match is not real lol.

Karayel had every chance to prove itself and even a similar nepotistic tie like baykar and yet the military just doesnt like it. Lentatek is seemingly just incompetent.

It wasn't about this at all, Vestel was tasked with Catapult launched UAV, by SSB. They ended up making a Tactical MALE, which then had a competitor, TB-2.

Also there were rumors that they have used a manned craft as base design and built unmanned vehicle on top of that, far from focusing on a catapult launched UAV, they had one way that reached to Tactical MALE. This should be only valid for the first models though.

 

[wolveray1]

People love to claim Karayel vestel/lentatek got screwed over by nepotism and make up this story that isnt real.

Lentatek belongs to Zorlu afaik. Which have deep ties with Erdo. This damat drone vs kemalist drone BS match is not real lol.

Karayel had every chance to prove itself and even a similar nepotistic tie like baykar and yet the military just doesnt like it. Lentatek is seemingly just incompetent.

Actually it doesn't matter if Selcuk is SIL as long its product proven.
Bayraktar got orders 90% from export yet some of people here try to condemn him as some kind of nepotism.
Unless nobody buying it or very2 few and only locally bought by Turkey armed force then the claim of nepotism is valid.
In fact currently no companies in Turkey can rival him in making drones.
Even Tai drones doesn't make much headway in export.

 

[Huelague]

Actually it doesn't matter if Selcuk is SIL as long its product proven.
Bayraktar got orders 90% from export yet some of people here try to condemn him as some kind of nepotism.
Unless nobody buying it or very2 few and only locally bought by Turkey armed force then the claim of nepotism is valid.
In fact currently no companies in Turkey can rival him in making drones.
Even Tai drones doesn't make much headway in export.

Erdogan helped Baykar with massive order. This money flow helped Baykar to grow up. In the second stage, Erdogan threading the export deals with customer. No arms deal, without government permission.

A classical nepotism!

 

[godel44]

Erdogan helped Baykar with massive order. This money flow helped Baykar to grow up. In the second stage, Erdogan threading the export deals with customer. No arms deal, without government permission.

A classical nepotism!

I know somewhat off-topic but I am really tired of reading inane stuff like this. Nepotism would be favoring a company without regard to its merits. Ordering from successful companies and allowing them to export is not nepotism but exactly how it should be. Besides the difficulties Baykar faced in the beginning are well-known. They most certainly did not have it easy. It's a small miracle that they persisted until they produced a product.

One would think no reasonable person in this country would feel any hostility towards Baykar. They played a big part in eradicating terror within the country, in operations in Syria, in Azerbaijan taking back its occupied lands, in invigorating the enthusiasm for technology in Turkish youth to a massive degree with Teknofests. They are doing extremely valuable work in the space sector now and with novel technologies like Kizilelma which may define our air force in the future. And they did all this without grants from the government, probably not having even much of a profit margin in domestically sold products.

But all of these achievements are still not enough to save a person if he is seen as aligned with their political rivals in the eyes of a brainwashed and hate-filled section of the society. Ataturk said the one who loves his country the most is the one doing his job the best. Wonder what they have ever done for this country? Who do you think Ataturk would be proud of more?

 

[begturan]

Interesting news. Niger is reportedly planning to buy Karayel-SU. They also operate TB2. Per the claim they wanted more TB2s but didn't like Baykar's "overcharged" offer.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1844368448991920290

They probably directed to Vestel due to delivery date and cost, probably SBB may have directed to save Vestel's ass. I guess SSB sometimes plays such a key role in some exports.

 

[Sanchez]

Erdogan helped Baykar with massive order. This money flow helped Baykar to grow up. In the second stage, Erdogan threading the export deals with customer. No arms deal, without government permission.

A classical nepotism!

You don't have the data to back this claim I think.

Nepotism would be favoring a company without regard to its merits

Not necessarily, no. The claim from some that Turkish credit lines and/or military aid dollars were used to channel orders to Baykar over other companies should be investigated in time.

 

[godel44]

Not necessarily, no. The claim from some that Turkish credit lines and/or military aid dollars were used to channel orders to Baykar over other companies should be investigated in time.

Necessarily so I’m afraid as that is part of the dictionary definition. Regarding military aid, the countries that need aid are the most likely to get a TB-2 as it is cheaper than Anka. The United States does the practice of giving military aid to be used with American private military companies all the time. It is because there is a great positive externality for the government arising from such a sale and the government is willing to pay for it. It has to do with diplomacy, not financial gains for a company.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Erdogan helped Baykar with massive order. This money flow helped Baykar to grow up. In the second stage, Erdogan threading the export deals with customer. No arms deal, without government permission.

A classical nepotism!

in Germany also no export of weapons without permission from the government also in the USA. Vetternwirtschaft??

You have all seen how Trump has collected orders in the Arab world for the American arms industry. You have all seen how Macron stood up for Rafale. But if the Turkish side does that..... vetternwirtschaft???

Go ........ goooo.....just go to another door.....

 

[Sanchez]

The United States does the practice of giving military aid to be used with American private military companies all the time. It is because there is a great positive externality for the government arising from such a sale and the government is willing to pay for it.

Of course. Nothing wrong with that. But there is a clear conflict of interest there with the government and Baykar, and it needs to be investigated. Did government officials specifically push TB2s over other Turkish products in those talks? We don't know.

 

[OPTIMUS]

When BAYKAR or TAI sells a UAV, ASELSAN, TEI and ROKETSAN also take them on the boat. BAYKAR is a system manufacturer, ASELSAN, ROKETSAN or TEI are compotent manufacturers. When a TB2 is sold abroad, ROKETSAN and ASELSAN are also involved. Have you ever seen a Tb2 or ANKA with American or German missiles? BAYKAR offers more options for its business according to customer requirements, which is why it also offers some foreign compotents. For a long time, Baykar has been offering opticians preferably with ASELSAN product ASELFLIR 500.

If someone says for any Turkish product that has proven itself abroad, by whose name newborns abroad are called, has taken stock in some NATO armies and still says father and son-in-law.

Then he has no good intentions...

 

[Saithan]

Meh people have a hard time accepting that it's necessary to scrutinize this governments doing once it changes hands. Diverting, redirecting etc. If they've done nothing wrong then they should not be afraid.

No one is denying TB2 being good at what it does, and being battleproven has definitely helped. And of course being a damat.

It's not black and white. Remember there are two "damats" and one chose/had to leave the country after being minister of finance...

I personally believe there has been foul play, and the question is what they have to give up to stay alive.

 

[Anmdt]

Meh people have a hard time accepting that it's necessary to scrutinize this governments doing once it changes hands. Diverting, redirecting etc. If they've done nothing wrong then they should not be afraid.

No one is denying TB2 being good at what it does, and being battleproven has definitely helped. And of course being a damat.

It's not black and white. Remember there are two "damats" and one chose/had to leave the country after being minister of finance...

I personally believe there has been foul play, and the question is what they have to give up to stay alive.

I don't know fares of Vestel or TAI, but based on my information Baykar charges Turkish Armed Forces or Government affiliated agency orders at nearly zero profit (and definitely makes a good profit on export orders).

Ofcourse they weren't such in the initial batches, or during LRIP phase, they charged for a dearly profit which then even exceeded Anka's bid, let alone Vestel.

But since they had the expansion and serial production their pricing for TAF is at nearly zero profit even sometimes by compensating for maintenance.

I don't know in the cases which military aid is redirected by, since the aids are from TR, they should be charging as they did for domestic orders + the risks involved as per the customer's region.

 

[Huelague]

You don't have the data to back this claim I think.

Of course, I have.

 

[Huelague]

in Germany also no export of weapons without permission from the government also in the USA. Vetternwirtschaft??

You have all seen how Trump has collected orders in the Arab world for the American arms industry. You have all seen how Macron stood up for Rafale. But if the Turkish side does that..... vetternwirtschaft???

Go ........ goooo.....just go to another door.....

Is Olaf Scholz (chancellor) linked personally with German Defense industry? Or any others of that President?
This argument and the "Lemmings" mentality is not pleasant.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Is Olaf Scholz (chancellor) linked personally with German Defense industry? Or any others of that President?
This argument and the "Lemmings" mentality is not pleasant.

I've been waiting for this. So Olaf Scholz.

He narrowly escaped arrest because he was involved in the crooked and crooked business that he did with the private bank M.M. Warburg in order to cover up tax money from the tax office. After his term in office, he will have hard times. But he doesn't suddenly remember what happened.

Secondly, like every German chancellor, he has close relations with the civilian and arms industries. Here at the bottom of the picture he is currently advertising a SIEMENS turbine for sale, because this turbine is not allowed to be delivered to the destination country.

He tried with great skill to sell to Saudi Arabian Leopard 2 tanks, although German arms export restrictions were strictly prohibited.

He recently campaigned again for an East German arms manufacturer (HANAEL), which at that time produced AK 47 for the NVA. His rifles against H&K questionably lost, are now in the hands of Ukrainian Army. So HANEL is also saved.

I can give the hundreds of examples. you just have to know, German politics is controlled by the industry, no matter which industry.

 

[OPTIMUS]

And even I can obviously write now.

You were all surprised why Germany suddenly released weapons and parts deliveries amounting to 336 million and caved in to Eurofighter.

After Turkish threat because of SIEMENS turbine through certain Turkish channels, he has received new orders from the industry. he even wanted to send the turbine as well, but the Turkish side refused.
If you had seen how the corridors at the Foreign Office were full of people in full haste, you could cry.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

And even I can obviously write now.

You were all surprised why Germany suddenly released weapons and parts deliveries amounting to 336 million and caved in to Eurofighter.

After Turkish threat because of SIEMENS turbine through certain Turkish channels, he has received new orders from the industry. he even wanted to send the turbine as well, but the Turkish side refused.
If you had seen how the corridors at the Foreign Office were full of people in full haste, you could cry.

Do you know more about this matter? It seems interesting.

 

[Huelague]

And even I can obviously write now.

You were all surprised why Germany suddenly released weapons and parts deliveries amounting to 336 million and caved in to Eurofighter.

After Turkish threat because of SIEMENS turbine through certain Turkish channels, he has received new orders from the industry. he even wanted to send the turbine as well, but the Turkish side refused.
If you had seen how the corridors at the Foreign Office were full of people in full haste, you could cry.

Who ordered the turbine, Russia or we?

 

[what]

Please on topic posts only.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

And even I can obviously write now.

You were all surprised why Germany suddenly released weapons and parts deliveries amounting to 336 million and caved in to Eurofighter.

After Turkish threat because of SIEMENS turbine through certain Turkish channels, he has received new orders from the industry. he even wanted to send the turbine as well, but the Turkish side refused.
If you had seen how the corridors at the Foreign Office were full of people in full haste, you could cry.

This is pure speculation....The parts that have been approved for export by the German government are all naval parts and their ammunition, therefore not a factor for use in Syria, Iraq & Co, because torpedoes and missiles are everything the PKK/YPG does not have on a large scale for naval war targets and they are not fighting against Turkey at sea either.
So Germany and the USA & Co have no concerns from a strategic point of view.

Turkey would never reject these Siemens turbines, according to the motto "you don't want to deliver, we will contest the purchase contract with a claim for damages and other means".
They will delay this as long as they can until it comes to nothing.
Turkey needs these turbines and since Germany dances to the tune of the USA and Israel and is protected by them, nothing will happen.

All superpowers for example USA/Israel, China/Russia have one thing in common - they do not want another nuclear state that could potentially develop nuclear weapons.