TR Economy & Updates

Deliorman

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The much bigger problem for Turkish industry, agriculture and those in the service sector isn’t the fact that Turkish lira is so weak... The problem is that they have no security. Nobody knows what will happen next week, next month or in a year- the Government is absolutely unpredictable and does stuff that only bring uncertainty and chaos.

I know people who tell- Even if 1$ costs 10TL we don’t care but we want the exchange rate to be stable, to know that it will stay at that level for months, for a year, two or three. The Government to have clear policies and clear goals. This way we can do mid term and long term planning, we can set goals for our businesses in a predictable environment- savings and investments can be made.

Unfortunately tomorrow Erdogan will wake up and will fire someone he wants or do something stupid that will make the currency tank hard again. You just can’t do business in such environment.
 

Lool

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Honestly I believe everything will depend on the inflation rate on Thursday
If it started to drop as the TCMB said, then all what they have to do is promise to keep the interest rate at 19% and the lira will gradually recover as the real interest rate will gradually increase over time
Since they had a 7% growth in Q1, they can have an even greater growth with a stronger lira as imports prices will decrease. However, the chronic problem of turkey is its imports, they should decrease tbh either by nationalising products or switching to cheaper sources
 

Xenon54

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Honestly I believe everything will depend on the inflation rate on Thursday
If it started to drop as the TCMB said, then all what they have to do is promise to keep the interest rate at 19% and the lira will gradually recover as the real interest rate will gradually increase over time
Since they had a 7% growth in Q1, they can have an even greater growth with a stronger lira as imports prices will decrease. However, the chronic problem of turkey is its imports, they should decrease tbh either by nationalising products or switching to cheaper sources
Decreasing imports wont help you will only shrink your economy, neither would it be possible since the demand is obviously there, what needs to be done is to increase exports means attract investors who export goods and services.
But with current goverment thats nearly impossible, nobody wants to invest in such a risky market that dependent on one mans actions, its the common problem of authoritarian/dictatorial regimes.
 

Glass🚬

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The much bigger problem for Turkish industry, agriculture and those in the service sector isn’t the fact that Turkish lira is so weak... The problem is that they have no security. Nobody knows what will happen next week, next month or in a year- the Government is absolutely unpredictable and does stuff that only bring uncertainty and chaos.

I know people who tell- Even if 1$ costs 10TL we don’t care but we want the exchange rate to be stable, to know that it will stay at that level for months, for a year, two or three. The Government to have clear policies and clear goals. This way we can do mid term and long term planning, we can set goals for our businesses in a predictable environment- savings and investments can be made.

Unfortunately tomorrow Erdogan will wake up and will fire someone he wants or do something stupid that will make the currency tank hard again. You just can’t do business in such environment.

No, at least since 2016 I observe that Turks have collectively a problem with the lira and basically shit talk it, creating negative market sentiment against the lira, as a result it also continues to loose on value, in crypto we call it fud " FUD is an acronym for Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt and is commonly used in the cryptocurrency community as a short way to describe negative information about a blockchain based currency or asset."

here are some examples:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/5ncoad https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/7cvtm0 https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/b3r1sq https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/95u8lx https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/giajc9
and if Turks bet against the lira then u can have the most progressive financial policies but as long as Turks collectively believe that they have to exchange the lira for other currencies because they believe the turkish lira is trash regardless of its exchange rate then there is no easy cure.
 

Spook

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Decreasing imports wont help you will only shrink your economy, neither would it be possible since the demand is obviously there, what needs to be done is to increase exports means attract investors who export goods and services.
But with current goverment thats nearly impossible, nobody wants to invest in such a risky market that dependent on one mans actions, its the common problem of authoritarian/dictatorial regimes.

Devalue lira, lower living conditions, offer cheap labor to attract foreign investors. It worked out very well expect the foreign investor part.
 

Nilgiri

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The arguable apex parameter of any developing and/or middle income country these days (in being able to pool, absorb and disperse what it was and is behind in) is FDI. This sets the sustained delta change in larger capital formation and investment structure and leveraging. This matters a lot in 5, 10, 20 year time blocks.

This stuff is largely govt and corporate sector influenced (these are the only structures in economy with the requisite vertical level and reach). There needs to be firm understanding and communication between them to develop good strategy in competitive world. The laypeople (consumers and small businesses etc) pool in behind the buffer of success afforded by such apex and its basic immediate consequential domino chains.

If we look at Turkey, it has been very suboptimal in the 2010 - 2020 decade, especially from about 2015 onwards:

TURinv.jpg


Can also be seen here in more graph form: https://unctadstat.unctad.org/CountryProfile/GeneralProfile/en-GB/792/index.html

There was an accelerated bump from early era of AKP admin to about 2007 where it hit 22 billion USD (in those dollars back then too).

Then came 08 crisis globally and level withdrew to below 10 billion in 2009 - 2010, which is understandable.

There was a slower recovery to previous level (20 billion USD) to about 2015 and then major decline to today (probably initially driven by the 2016 coup) where it has now dropped to below 8 billion USD.

Portfolio investment (like FII) as you can see few rows below the highlighted one has taken a huge beating as well (flows now idling around 0 and there was just way too much reliance on debt instruments for it in previous years to kickstart it). This has affected Turkey Market Cap seriously in recent years (which sets lot of other confidence and borrowing potential patterns and yields needed).

There simply has not been commensurate attention paid by current Turkish admin/establishment to the innermost core of onion so to speak.

Without that core squared away as it should be (given Turkey inherited development level, location and institutional robustness at the time), arguing over outermost "laypeople" layers of onion (which are simply most visible and easier to criticize) is detrimental and disingenuous. They are folks responding to the whole mess with the resources and decisions at their disposal. This is global phenomenon, so I never blame the laypeople....at least before the litany of deeper issues done by elitists and power-freaks.

So it is not surprising multiple members (many of whom I respect in that they know what they are talking about) have brought up the corruption issues, level of nepotism and institutional degradation that act as major levers against the reform a govt (in general anywhere) needs to do to hold and build confidence for savings and investment in 10 year blocks.....that Turkey govt. has dropped ball on in the recent decade.

The damage will actually last a long while here from inertia (less than 8 billion FDI for 750 billion GDP is simply awful), even with a new administration taking over potentially. It will take a full term, maybe two.... of course correction in structural reform (not tinkering and face saving), institutional rebuilding, basic fair legal confidence restored and developed by best minds in Turkey (and Turkey has plenty, they need to be put in proper positions again).

It might not be till like 2027 or even 2030 onwards we see Turkish economy get structurally sound again with good trajectory commensurate to its inheritance and underlying fundamentals.

As I have mentioned before, I give credit to AKP w.r.t previous decade (2000 - 2010)....but the next decade has seen quite the reversal.

I feel blaming civilians/laypeople over the political parties/elitist is a copout. When you (set of elitists) get the power, you must wield it responsibly and rationally (on matters of most core concern to everyone). You will have whatever segment of population fanboying over whatever theatrics-polarisation you harness (par for the course globally) and of course the reverse....but there is serious stuff to deal with professionally behind it if you truly care about your nation. It gets out of hand, then you both lose power in worst way possible and also damage the nation fundamentals for long time....no matter what promise/new beginning you started out with.
 

what

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At some point, Turkiye was close to 900 billion$ GDP. Turkiye will continue to grow, it is recovering the losses of the last 5-7 years but this won't translate into income equality. Turkish growth=Turkish oligarchs getting richer while average people suffer.
That's there real issue. If Turkey grows 7% this year and your wage stays the same, you're getting fucked.
 

Ryder

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That's there real issue. If Turkey grows 7% this year and your wage stays the same, you're getting fucked.

Turkish economy seems to be stagnant all the time you get growth but it means nothing.

This seems to be a problem in the country for decades you get years of growth then it starts falling and after it recovers but instead of recovering health it just becomes stagnant again and withers away for years until real growth comes. Rinse and repeat.

Erdogan needs to put a long term plan even if he does not stay for long but leaving a country in a worst state basically means to the successor here your job is too big of a hole to fix. Tayyip can use it for his advantage you see I did not screw the economy up.
 

Saithan

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1622535714166.png



RTE and AKP are not capable of doing so. They're on the road to pleasing EU hoping to renegotiate tradeunion, but that won't happen overnight and EU wants AKP and RTE to disappear, so pushing it into the future is in their favor.

Someone chewed more than they could swallow. Whilst ruining the country's economy, and still in the process. It's survival for the people waiting for the elections.
 

Tornadoss

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^Many are naive and lack critical thinking and if that doesnt get fixed then it doesnt matter who runs the gov.
So is it now citizens wrong doing of the citizens and not the government? If you change the head of the central bank every 3 months and interfere its decision making. If you fuck up your Judiciary system, no sane investor would trust in TR and TL.
 

Xenon54

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Devalue lira, lower living conditions, offer cheap labor to attract foreign investors. It worked out very well expect the foreign investor part.
Would you invest in a market where the president is heavily manipulating it by assigning people to central bank, where he spreads conspiracy theories about interest rates, where the minister of economy is son in law? Turkey goverment has proven to be not a reliable partner for investors.
I would look for another developig country if i was to invest a couple billions to be honest.
 

Xenon54

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So is it now citizens wrong doing of the citizens and not the government? If you change the head of the central bank every 3 months and interfere its decision making. If you fuck up your Judiciary system, no sane investor would trust in TR and TL.
Thats pretty much the gist of it.
 

kimov

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That's there real issue. If Turkey grows 7% this year and your wage stays the same, you're getting fucked.
It is the same everywhere, that is why central banks have official inflation targets which results in citizens always get fucked.

Here in Sweden, the inflation target is 2% but house prices increased +20% this year alone. You may think this is unusual year due to corona but house prices have increased with 10-20% every year since more than 20 years while salaries have been near stagnant for the last 40 years with 0-1.5% annual increase, i.e. even under the official inflation and far under the real inflation.

Some examples, my first apartment costed me 350 000kr in 2001 and the exact same apartment now 20 year later cost >2 000 000kr. Pizza were 29kr in 2001 and 95kr in 2021 in the exact same pizzeria with 20 year older interior. Entry level salary were 18000kr back in 2001 and is now 23000kr.
 

Xenon54

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It is the same everywhere, that is why central banks have official inflation targets which results in citizens always get fucked.

Here in Sweden, the inflation target is 2% but house prices increased +20% this year alone. You may think this is unusual year due to corona but house prices have increased with 10-20% every year since more than 20 years while salaries have been near stagnant for the last 40 years with 0-1.5% annual increase, i.e. even under the official inflation and far under the real inflation.

Some examples, my first apartment costed me 350 000kr in 2001 and the exact same apartment now 20 year later cost >2 000 000kr. Pizza were 29kr in 2001 and 95kr in 2021 in the exact same pizzeria with 20 year older interior. Entry level salary were 18000kr back in 2001 and is now 23000kr.
Real estate prices increased globally in the last two decades.
 

Tornadoss

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Did apartments jumped from 350k to 2 millions lira for example in Turkey, i really doubt that it is.
Well, my parents bought a house in 2003 around 35K and then paid around 10k-15k for renovation for 100m2. Today It should be around 350-400K.
 

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