TR Economy & Updates

[Saithan]

The thing is, something like that good directly from the producers already exists with around 400 stores:

Türkiye Tarım Kredi Kooperatifleri

www.tarimkredi.org.tr

But apparently (i never seen them) the prices are even higher than at BIM and the sorts, because they of course pay a fairer price to the producers/farmers but have a smaller assortment of goods. Big chains have a big negotiation power and thus what you see at BIM for example with a low discounter margin of 2-3% is the best price you will get.

Except if the government subsidizes it.

İt recalls me "cheap sales points " which had opened before elections and which was abondened .
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You can't opress market where all expenditures are rising thanks to high inflation.

The government had better calm down inflation.

I believe the government is going to pull a "India" here, buy from the farmers etc for a fixed price. have the state/country swallow the loss when selling it in the market to consumers.

Their solution to the economic crises is to hollow out the state even more. When new government comes to power and fixes the issue the backlash is going to rape producer, consumer and everyone except the filthy rich who by then have moved their wealth abroad.

Down this road leads to Communism.

 

[mulj]

While I understand the reason, what I'm curious about is the prices. For supermarket chains their product prices should be reflected nation wide. If they lower the price of cabbage or tea to (let's say) 20 TL that price should be the same in Van and Istanbul. Allowing these supermarkets to differentiate prices from region to region would jeopardize competition.

You make a law forcing the chains to hold the prices throughout Turkey and ensure it's done, and follow up with introducing a competitor that goes for fair price. That would force the big chains to follow suit.

If those markets introduce new brands, private labels, different structured offer etc. it can influence on global prices, big chains are designed like that, that people buy lot of unnecessary things and that drain the money from citizens which is the reason why they then consider if the cabbage is 10 or 15 lira per kg for example.
one other thing which i noticed within my limited visits in Turkey that each market chain has 90% same brands offer in general consumption department. that is also big part of problem as you basically do not have healthy competition between retail chains instead of it, you have hidden oligopoly.

 

[Saithan]

If those markets introduce new brands, private labels, different structured offer etc. it can influence on global prices, big chains are designed like that, that people buy lot of unnecessary things and that drain the money from citizens which is the reason why they then consider if the cabbage is 10 or 15 lira per kg for example.
one other thing which i noticed within my limited visits in Turkey that each market chain has 90% same brands offer in general consumption department. that is also big part of problem as you basically do not have healthy competition between retail chains instead of it, you have hidden oligopoly.

No those markets just do what every other market in the world does. They have famous brands and then they have their own discount brands. Spontaneous shopping is a personal problem.

If there are no other options and 90% are the same brand. That just means there are no other competitors in the market. The problem of "import-slap-your-%-earning-and-sell-onwards" applies to pretty fucking much everything in Turkey. The mentality of creating something like an entrepreneur and marketing it is still in its infancy.

Show me one domestic breastmilk substitute in Turkey. There are none!

Pharmaceutical companies just buy from abroad, slap extra earnings on it and sell it onwards. But I do recall reading that one domestic Turkish pharmacy had started to produce more medicin etc. So it's at least going in the right direction, if the economy doesn't collapse because someone with the brain of a midget refuses to believe in market forces!

You need a stable economy, and solid financing for any entrepreneur to dare make something.

 

[mulj]

No those markets just do what every other market in the world does. They have famous brands and then they have their own discount brands. Spontaneous shopping is a personal problem.

If there are no other options and 90% are the same brand. That just means there are no other competitors in the market. The problem of "import-slap-your-%-earning-and-sell-onwards" applies to pretty fucking much everything in Turkey. The mentality of creating something like an entrepreneur and marketing it is still in its infancy.

Show me one domestic breastmilk substitute in Turkey. There are none!

Pharmaceutical companies just buy from abroad, slap extra earnings on it and sell it onwards. But I do recall reading that one domestic Turkish pharmacy had started to produce more medicin etc. So it's at least going in the right direction, if the economy doesn't collapse because someone with the brain of a midget refuses to believe in market forces!

You need a stable economy, and solid financing for any entrepreneur to dare make something.

Let me ask you, how much is market share pecentage of PLs in Turkey domestic trade trough market chains and comparation with EU, it would be interesting to compare those 2 data.
it is only viable frame for long term prices stability and pressure measure against brand dictating prices. I am pretty confidant that is big part of prices problem.

 

[Ravenman]

The prices of the goods are not only determined by the vendors, you cant just slap higher prices othervide customer will go somewhere else.
The problem lies in bad economy, devaluating currency and too high imports, opening 1000 more markets will do nothing to fix this, just waste of money but thats what you guys and AKP dont get.

If you as a customer buying directly from the farmer (and these 1000 new state groceries are directly from the farmer), the farmer gets a fair price and doesnt have to sell his goods for dump prices to the big superdupers.

Last week a farmer was protesting. He had produced almost 750 ton apples (i dont know the exact amount), and the superdupers offered him only 1 TL per kilogram (that couldnt even compensate the water and electricity), but they would sell those apples for 10 TL per kilogram in their stores.

That farmer went mad and rejected the deal and offered al his apples for free to the people and orphanages and hospitals. But other farmers quitted the job and moved away to Istanbul and other big cities to work in a textile fabric for a minimum wage.

What results in decresing agricultural production a d increased foreign imports. So tell me what can the government do?

It's a vicious circle.

- Farmers putting all efforts to produce.
- Superdupers dont give them shit.
- Farmer is broke and quits.
- Agricultural producers decreasing.
- Import of fruit and vegetables increase.
- Prices are increasing.

What can the government do. Opening state groceries in every city to crush the Superduper-Kartel. Let them go bankrupt, their managers fired and their workers be homeless.

 

[Saithan]

If you as a customer buying directly from the farmer (and these 1000 new state groceries are directly from the farmer), the farmer gets a fair price and doesnt have to sell his goods for dump prices to the big superdupers.

Last week a farmer was protesting. He had produced almost 750 ton apples (i dont know the exact amount), and the superdupers offered him only 1 TL per kilogram (that couldnt even compensate the water and electricity), but they would sell those apples for 10 TL per kilogram in their stores.

That farmer went mad and rejected the deal and offered al his apples for free to the people and orphanages and hospitals. But other farmers quitted the job and moved away to Istanbul and other big cities to work in a textile fabric for a minimum wage.

What results in decresing agricultural production a d increased foreign imports. So tell me what can the government do?

It's a vicious circle.

- Farmers putting all efforts to produce.
- Superdupers dont give them shit.
- Farmer is broke and quits.
- Agricultural producers decreasing.
- Import of fruit and vegetables increase.
- Prices are increasing.

What can the government do. Opening state groceries in every city to crush the Superduper-Kartel. Let them go bankrupt, their managers fired and their workers be homeless.

In Denmark the farmers have established a cooporative that runs supermarkets, and this chain actually buys from local farmers at favorable prices and sells it at favorable terms. The thing is you can't be shortsighted and Turks are!

Coop Danmark A/S

Coop Danmark A/S er én af Danmarks førende dagligvarevirksomheder. Coop er ejet af 2 mio. medlemmer og driver Kvickly, SuperBrugsen, Brugsen og 365discount

info.coop.dk

What AKP is doing is going to undermine the free market and go down the communism lane. Supermarkets owned by the government. Vote for RTE and get 15% discount!

The loss will be covered by The Republic of Turkey!

 

[mulj]

If you as a customer buying directly from the farmer (and these 1000 new state groceries are directly from the farmer), the farmer gets a fair price and doesnt have to sell his goods for dump prices to the big superdupers.

Last week a farmer was protesting. He had produced almost 750 ton apples (i dont know the exact amount), and the superdupers offered him only 1 TL per kilogram (that couldnt even compensate the water and electricity), but they would sell those apples for 10 TL per kilogram in their stores.

That farmer went mad and rejected the deal and offered al his apples for free to the people and orphanages and hospitals. But other farmers quitted the job and moved away to Istanbul and other big cities to work in a textile fabric for a minimum wage.

What results in decresing agricultural production a d increased foreign imports. So tell me what can the government do?

It's a vicious circle.

- Farmers putting all efforts to produce.
- Superdupers dont give them shit.
- Farmer is broke and quits.
- Agricultural producers decreasing.
- Import of fruit and vegetables increase.
- Prices are increasing.

What can the government do. Opening state groceries in every city to crush the Superduper-Kartel. Let them go bankrupt, their managers fired and their workers be homeless.

Astonished that the goverment did not come with that kind of measure earlier, by your words and my undestanding of those, Turkey economy is more liberal then usa and eu combined, which is rather insane.

 

[mulj]

In Denmark the farmers have established a cooporative that runs supermarkets, and this chain actually buys from local farmers at favorable prices and sells it at favorable terms. The thing is you can't be shortsighted and Turks are!

Coop Danmark A/S

Coop Danmark A/S er én af Danmarks førende dagligvarevirksomheder. Coop er ejet af 2 mio. medlemmer og driver Kvickly, SuperBrugsen, Brugsen og 365discount

info.coop.dk

What AKP is doing is going to undermine the free market and go down the communism lane. Supermarkets owned by the government. Vote for RTE and get 15% discount!

The loss will be covered by The Republic of Turkey!

Bro, eu is most communist instiution in regards of agriculture industry. It is most protected market in the world.

 

[Saithan]

Bro, eu is most communist instiution in regards of agriculture industry. It is most protected market in the world.

EU is a protectionist because they understand the importance of domestic agricultural production. In Turkey Politicians don't care as they're busy filling their pockets with bribery. There is a reason why Turkey can't freely export pasta to EU because that's the bread and butter for many Italian producers.

City planning is out the damn window, why else would they allow gigantic Malls being built at every damn corner!

The government allowed all those giant constructions not caring about the smaller local supermarkets. Afterwards Gülenist/RTE A101 came and whatever else there is, and started spreading living well off on that margin between minimum earning and what giant Malls are selling their goods for.

If you don't monitor and keep an eye on things and just leave it to the free market guess what? Oppotunistic humans will find a way to squeeze the lemon.

So now that the inflation is around 40% governments solution is to build government owned supermarkets to curb the market. They're not fighting the disease or symptoms they're applying bandaid to an infection hoping it will help.

 

[mulj]

EU is a protectionist because they understand the importance of domestic agricultural production. In Turkey Politicians don't care as they're busy filling their pockets with bribery. There is a reason why Turkey can't freely export pasta to EU because that's the bread and butter for many Italian producers.

City planning is out the damn window, why else would they allow gigantic Malls being built at every damn corner!

The government allowed all those giant constructions not caring about the smaller local supermarkets. Afterwards Gülenist/RTE A101 came and whatever else there is, and started spreading living well off on that margin between minimum earning and what giant Malls are selling their goods for.

If you don't monitor and keep an eye on things and just leave it to the free market guess what? Oppotunistic humans will find a way to squeeze the lemon.

So now that the inflation is around 40% governments solution is to build government owned supermarkets to curb the market. They're not fighting the disease or symptoms they're applying bandaid to an infection hoping it will help.

So you admit that some kind of protection for essencial producers like agriclotural ones is much needed, in that sense if those markets will buy local products by fair price, i do not see particular problem, on the contrary.
Area were i support your sceptism is how and under which mechanism that policy will be implemented.

 

[Saithan]

So you admit that some kind of protection for essencial producers like agriclotural ones is much needed, in that sense if those markets will buy local products by fair price, i do not see particular problem, on the contrary.
Area were i support your sceptism is how and under which mechanism that policy will be implemented.

You POV seems twisted. EU is protecting their own domestic producers with incentives and such for export purpose.

The problem in Turkey is not related to export so you can't compare.

The example Ravenman gave is one aspect 750 ton of apples and he doesn't have a "Engros/Grossist" to sell it to (the middle man) who in return would sell to Supermarket chains etc.

If you skip the middle man and sell directly to the Supermarkets you're pretty much saying "Screw you, I can earn more by not having you as the middle man", and the Supermarket chain says, "oh you want to sell to me, well I'll pay you 1 TL".

The farmer start whining and giving his apples away for free.

That's what you get when you put all your apples in one basket. If he had saved up and invested in diversifying maybe he would be producing ecological apple jam, or something else. But no, the money flowing from apple that grows in EVERY DAMN City was good, until inflation hit like a sledge hammer.

It's not really the farmers fault actually, it's the government that lost its sanity and allowed for everything to reach this point.

I wonder if there will be a point in time where people will look back and wish the coup had succeeded.

 

[Indos]

Big Retail chain grocery should be competed by small ones. Here in Indonesia we have many of them run by house holds.

In Indonesia we have Omnibus Law now, business license will be based on risk and whether it is SME/Medium/or Big ones. It is base on risk, and low risk business will have easy requirement to get license

Less regulation to open business means more businesses being created, and it also means more competition and it will in the end bring down prices

 

[mulj]

You POV seems twisted. EU is protecting their own domestic producers with incentives and such for export purpose.

The problem in Turkey is not related to export so you can't compare.

The example Ravenman gave is one aspect 750 ton of apples and he doesn't have a "Engros/Grossist" to sell it to (the middle man) who in return would sell to Supermarket chains etc.

If you skip the middle man and sell directly to the Supermarkets you're pretty much saying "Screw you, I can earn more by not having you as the middle man", and the Supermarket chain says, "oh you want to sell to me, well I'll pay you 1 TL".

The farmer start whining and giving his apples away for free.

That's what you get when you put all your apples in one basket. If he had saved up and invested in diversifying maybe he would be producing ecological apple jam, or something else. But no, the money flowing from apple that grows in EVERY DAMN City was good, until inflation hit like a sledge hammer.

It's not really the farmers fault actually, it's the government that lost its sanity and allowed for everything to reach this point.

I wonder if there will be a point in time where people will look back and wish the coup had succeeded.

No bro, i am not twisting anything, maybe you are . You justiify eu protecting measures due different reasons and when Turkey wants to implement its own version of protection you attack it with same examples from eu, for example range of cultures produced from farmers while farmers in eu are most subsied monocultured producers in the world, it does not add up.

 

[Indos]

So you admit that some kind of protection for essencial producers like agriclotural ones is much needed, in that sense if those markets will buy local products by fair price, i do not see particular problem, on the contrary.
Area were i support your sceptism is how and under which mechanism that policy will be implemented.

Protection on agriculture products is a must. In Indonesia some essential agriculture products like rice, meat, etc needs government permit to get import license. Since 2020, government hasnt made any import permit for rice, except for expensive rice like coming from Japan and needed by Japanese restaurant in Indonesia, this expensive rice will get tax as well since the consumers are rich people ( Japanese expats, Japanese restaurant consumers)

 

[Nilgiri]

The prices of products go up? Just open more markets. Great economy geniuses of AKP at work once again...

Anything can be a solution, when you set precedent of decreasing interest rates to "reduce" inflation.

 

[Nilgiri]

Last week a farmer was protesting. He had produced almost 750 ton apples (i dont know the exact amount), and the superdupers offered him only 1 TL per kilogram (that couldnt even compensate the water and electricity), but they would sell those apples for 10 TL per kilogram in their stores.

You have source for these numbers? You are implying a markup of 10x which seems too much.

One must also consider what supermarkets/grocery chains put in for warehousing, truck logistics, staff etc etc that the farmer does not (all things the govt stores will also have to do btw - just with ability to pass some or all of these costs to taxpayer to harness an indirect subsidy + tax burden that private markets cannot).

These things all have their own inflation rates going on now. It comes down to how much of the 9 TL in the buffer is justified and indexed to inflation itself (fuel transport prices, wage inflation etc etc)...since many more factors of production are involved.

If 1 TL/kg is what they offer him (and you imply they collectively do oligopoly/cartel rather than undercut each other competitively), the answer is for all farmers of his type to collectively bargain from their end (especially if situation is so dire he/they cannot even recoup basic input costs --- farmers anywhere would have organised and talked to each other a long time ago in the process IMO).

Or they can organise farmer market themselves and get price references for themselves when they have to input transport and logistics, selling+stocking time, and delivery to city folk etc.

If its undercut by import price (i.e that is what sets the 1 TL/kg)...then Turkey should look at a tarriff there....especially on reciprocal basis to what its exports receive.

None of this involves state run stores...which will inevitably become subsidy-run.

Those just add more overhead, time and infrastructure costs rather than optimally use what is already there....all so govt can get a brochure point on intervention/action it can then skew to try make look good.

Or TR govt can simply give farmers guaranteed income support money.........indexed to some basket of inputs (fertilizer, seed, fuel, pesticide, farm labour etc)....or introduce subsidies directly there.

Make more sense than creating a whole bunch of (govt) new stores to undercut (uncompetitively by subsidy that private stores wont get) existing ones.

Where you have subsidy reliance, you inevitably will get shortages at some point too (and floods at others) given you intervening in the demand and supply (creating a gap there over time by price ceiling or floor). You mess with the price signalling process....as bureaucrats insert themselves and entrench in the "market".

Look what happened in last decade or so in USSR state grocery stores....all to keep prices low and farmers happy at same time. It needs huge amount of tax revenue spent as all kinds of subsidy....making both this sector extremely inefficient and also taking away resources from other sectors (by the tax burden imposed).

What can the government do. Opening state groceries in every city to crush the Superduper-Kartel. Let them go bankrupt, their managers fired and their workers be homeless.

If the issue is as you say, farmers can open their farmer's market and see where the market price lies in more direct way when they have to input more time and logistics to bring produce to buyers.

 

[Ecderha]

Very good measure from the not so loved government.

Ultrabig Superduper Grocery Chains like A101, BIM, Migros and ŞoK are a living cancer on the body of the Turkish people. They are monopolising the market and cartelizing the prizes of basic needs and destroying the little stores and middle groceries with their agressive policy. You see them at every corner of the street, they are like dirty diapers smashing at your carwindow.

Let's hope that the governments war against inflation will succeed and that these juggernaut superdupers go bankrupt.

If you Ask for LOGIC I must Agree with you. But we living in REAL world. It is mean that you need to be AWARE and Adapt accordingly.Therefor I WOULD not AGREE WITH you about bankrupting Turkish OWN build companies providing mostly Turkish products.


Example:
in Bulgaria there were local stores,market,groceries etc.....
What happend is that German, France and Spain came.
Lidl, Kaufland, Technopolis, Technomarket, Praktier, Mr.Bricolage <- This foreigner "ARE WELL KNOWN DESTROYERS of LOCAL buildup stores etc."

The Tactic is usually this way
1. Build up buildings on the country
2. Make advertisement on TV,Radio,Internet for locals that "you store sell LOCAL PRODUCT, and say WE SUPPORT LOCAL" -> in realty they sell 10% local prodcuts.
3. Make local store to default-> They buy big numbers of local product from producers (the same prodcuers which supply LOCAL MARKETS). Idea is that LOCAL market does not have option to buy prodcut with is already sold. Then they don't have stock to sell-> less income -> short path to default/close
4.When local competitors gone/close/default.Then Lidl, Kaufland, Technopolis, Technomarket, Praktier, Mr.Bricolage START the BIG ""black mailing. They say directly to local producers "example : tomato producer" You wil provide tomato at this price if not then you can't sell it to my Stores in country. What is happen is that this tomato producers will accept or die.

The MAIN THING is local slavery of the producer controled by above foreigner companies (They are REALLy powrerful they contorl all EU markets) and get They bring all local money to OWN country. So locals are cheap slavery labours eating or using cheap prodcuts controled by monopoy and you CAN NOT counter.

We in bulgaria are in above STAGE.

But Turkiye already FOUGHT with them in since year 2000 and able to build OWN MAKETS and CHAIN to Counter above competitor and Succeed.
So you are in State that you Companies control local chain of supply and most of money is in Turkiye and used for step in in EU or other countries.
I am saying thay Turkiye local Chain of Companies APPLY the SAME Tactic against Already foreigners.

I can say that EVEN usa is lossing on above group of companies which sell specific prodcuts. They killing usa competors

So please stop with logical stuff . Market and prodcuts in present days are ONE gourp vs Other group. You should be happy that you OWN group own you county and try to sell own made products.

 

[Tornadoss]

Yeah, inflation is everyone's fault except the government.

 

[Saithan]

https://www.veryansintv.com/sanliurfada-sendikaya-uye-olan-tekstil-iscileri-isten-cikarildi'

200 workers who were members of workers union got fired.
______________________________

This is a direct result of AKP governance, after hollowing out Workers Union and rights.

 

[Turko]

Big Retail chain grocery should be competed by small ones. Here in Indonesia we have many of them run by house holds.

In Indonesia we have Omnibus Law now, business license will be based on risk and whether it is SME/Medium/or Big ones. It is base on risk, and low risk business will have easy requirement to get license

Less regulation to open business means more businesses being created, and it also means more competition and it will in the end bring down prices

The problem here is not competition.
This argument was fabricated by genius president to hide the real problem.

İf you opened ten thousands of new grossary, you wouldnt be able to decrease the prices. Because there are high expenditures of any production.
Expenditures are rising subject to inflation. How could you supply to farmers cheap fertilizer, seeds, fuel while USD rising in Türkiye.

How could you supply cheap milk to dairy industry?

I'm sure those new shops will Just bring burdens on tax players.