TR Economy & Updates

what

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Many analysts are saying this was a small interest rate hike, but I personally do not understand what they did today. The market was bonkers. Will have to do some more reading about the announcements.
 

Nilgiri

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If you stay at TL for 6 months you will get the regular interest rate plus %50 of the loss you suffer because of TL dollar ratio as compensation directly from the treasury. If you stay at the TL for a year you will be completely compensated for any loss you suffer from TL dollar ratio. This is a cheap parlor trick and markets won't buy this.

Yup, because markets simply ask where is the underlying compensation coming from....i.e who pays for it.

Turkish people (mid and long term wise especially)....that's who.

New kind of bond/instrument and subsidy policy (to TL relative to forex) to patch over things is largely election driven along with the minimum wage increase (who's extra inflation will kick in soon).

It all just adds to long term costs given this larger nonsense being done with I. rates and inflation on already bad banking structural issues.

Dressing up pie crust when the fillings all messed up good....and you still going to be baking it instead of changing the core pie making.

Baker(s) needs to know pie-craft to do relevant inside-out change of relevance.
 

HTurk

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Many analysts are saying this was a small interest rate hike, but I personally do not understand what they did today. The market was bonkers. Will have to do some more reading about the announcements.
Die Regierung hat eine Einlagengarantie abgegeben. Deine Einlage in TRY auf der Bank wird normalerweise verzinst. Die türkische Zentralbank senkt allerdings den Leitzins und der Wertverfalls zum Dollar hält weiterhin an; die Menschen flüchten verständlicherweise aus der Lira in den USD. Folge: das Finanzsystem kollabiert aufgrund einer Dollarisierung, die Lira verliert massiv an Wert.

Die Regierung hat nun die TRY-Einlagen an den Dollar faktisch indexiert. Wird der Dollar stärker und deine TRY-Einlage verliert an Wert, erstattet der Staat dir die Differenz, damit du deine Einlagen weiterhin in TRY hältst. Dies ist jedoch hochspekulativ im Gegensatz zu einer traditionellen Maßnahme, nämlich der Erhöhung der Leitzinsen.

Ob dies alles so aufgeht, steht in den Sternen, da die Inflation in TRY deine Zinsen und die Differenz auffrisst. Geht diese Maßnahme daneben, kann sie den Staat faktisch in den Staatsbankrott führen. Aufseiten der internationalen Investoren kann so kein Vertrauen wiederhergestellt werden längerfristig.
 

Nilgiri

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I hope that everybody here understands that Erdogan is clutching at any straw and this is definitily his last one. If things go down from here, our economy is going to be destroyed entirely or he will be forced to raise the interest rate by at least 10% + x.

This policy is wonderful if it works and for it to work properly and be a success, there are many requirements and preconditions that need to be fulfilled in the first place. I just don't see this right now.

There are couple more things he might do after new years. More extreme capital flight controls and such. Big sledgehammer stuff is always there, depends if you feel desperate enough to use them.

Depends how things go first...have to let some weeks play out....or at least a month.

Then it depends on predicted election horizon versus.....loss of face.

i.e how any loss of face (and pressure to do such things) can be disguised more (i.e interest rate hike vs capital control)....w.r.t attempted push liquidity back into capital account/savings.

I have a feeling he wants to continue pursue the interest rate drops as he has vocally commited/signalled this multiple times (and continues to do so)..... and removed enough TCB and finmin ppl that got in the way (so he is crossed river much more here in macbeth terms).

He has simply convinced himself of it and surrounded himself with yes-ppl echo chamber for it.

Capital controls may be more likely route to "proxy i-r hike" fix this (at least w.r.t raw USD demand vs TL demand from TR domestic economy)....as this recent assurance+subsidy action (to shore up TL and delay those costs to later) shows sample of.

Such controls are less direct (for most people to understand anyway)...thus loss of face is much less (directly compared to reversing something you said openly many times).

....it is sledgehammer use because you (as one that calls the executive shots) decidedly dont want to use direct scalpel finesse (because you are against scalpels)... along with having scalpel-surgeons around in the relevant preceding timeframe of many years (when they could have intervened far better to address the root problems) now.
 
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Economist PhD. M. Murat Kubilay:

It is desired to use instruments that are not foreign currency but provide foreign currency-like returns. Thus, instead of foreign currency banknotes with international counterparts, financial instruments that are accepted only in Turkey but that yield as much as real foreign currency are offered to investors. Currency-indexed bonds for corporations and foreign exchange-yielding deposits for individuals come to the fore.

Although it is not known exactly what kind of contract it will be; probably, the additional yield of foreign currency, if any, will be added on top of the TL deposit yield (if any, it will not be deducted). Of course, this situation will leave a serious burden on the banks if the exchange rate continues to rise. This part will be undertaken by the Treasury.”


The critical point of the system is trust; that is, the answer of the citizen to the question of whether it is a foreign currency or a foreign currency-indexed but TL-denominated instrument. If direct demand for foreign currency persists, then the interest burden that will have to be paid on these bonds and deposits increases greatly; First, the state budget deteriorates, and then inflation explodes due to the TL created to be paid.


If this demand stops, the exchange rate increase is stopped without burdening the Treasury; Only banks pay the ordinary TL deposit interest burden. In other words, the main thing is to be convinced that there will be no difference in return between real currency and foreign currency equivalents and ignore the fact that there is no international validity.”

For this reason, it is difficult to completely stop the exchange rate increase with such instruments, but it is possible to slow it down, but at the expense of the deterioration in the budget and the increase in inflation.



Thus, the possibility of the financial system to be shaken by excessive physical foreign exchange demand and as a result, the concern of capital control falls off the agenda. However, since the whole system is based on trust, Erdogan is likely to implement a populist policy in the upcoming period, and there is a general opinion in society about Erdogan's financial preferences, the results desired by the government will probably not be achieved. In summary, a dissolution in existing foreign currency deposits is difficult, but a slowdown in new demand for foreign currency is likely.”


Durmus Yilmaz, former Central Bank Governor:

The government said, “We will implement the Turkish Economy Model”. His goal was to increase exports over worthless Turkish lira. They deliberately lowered the value of the Turkish lira. The depreciation of the lira was the target, but at this point they saw that this was a dead end. A nail has been hammered into the coffin of the Turkish Economy Model.

They returned without saying we came back, they returned to orthodox policies. This is it. They left the main road and took a side road, but the road they entered is a dead end. This is an interest rate hike. It is a 'u-turn' from classical AKP policies. But this is a policy that brings with it some problems. An implied rate hike was made. They can make a political statement from here. Just because we lowered both the interest rate and the exchange rate. How they can sell it, if they sell it, we will see in time.

The market did not buy these statements of Erdogan, there is a definite intervention in the market right now. We will see the truth in the morning. I think we will continue where we left off. This is a buying opportunity. It is nothing else. I think this business will continue from where it left off.”


Alpaslan Çakar, President of the Banks Association of Turkey, explained the exchange rate difference system for TL deposits announced by President Erdoğan.
Çakar,'' Banks will open an account indexed to foreign currency. You will receive the interest-bearing balance at the end of the maturity date and the exchange rate level of that day, whichever is higher at the point where your money comes. The exchange rate difference to TL deposits is valid for real person customers, not legal entities,'' he said.
 
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Nilgiri

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I wonder what akpions will say when dollar hits the 18 again

Their reaction will be priceless

They first have to make up their mind if a low number or high number is good for TL vs USD/Euro.

Or what range is best....and how that range is to be decided (activities/decisions of many millions of people, or just a few that "know").

Just some pages back, all kind of people were saying depreciate to 20 TL per USD is good+stronk for exports + investment.

Now its back to celebrate TL gain to 13 (by promised subsidy injection/insurance).

You need to define compass bearings, N, S, E , W.... before we can even start to debate (in larger group of members here) if the direction is good or bad.

It is kind of waste of conversation (Cross-chamber) in end I feel....simply let time play out and see which chamber of discussion wins.
 

Nilgiri

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The critical point of the system is trust; that is, the answer of the citizen to the question of whether it is a foreign currency or a foreign currency-indexed but TL-denominated instrument. If direct demand for foreign currency persists, then the interest burden that will have to be paid on these bonds and deposits increases greatly; First, the state budget deteriorates, and then inflation explodes due to the TL created to be paid.


If this demand stops, the exchange rate increase is stopped without burdening the Treasury; Only banks pay the ordinary TL deposit interest burden. In other words, the main thing is to be convinced that there will be no difference in return between real currency and foreign currency equivalents and ignore the fact that there is no international validity.”

For this reason, it is difficult to completely stop the exchange rate increase with such instruments, but it is possible to slow it down, but at the expense of the deterioration in the budget and the increase in inflation.

Yah ticking time bomb effect like I described....you build up pressure for later by plugging a cpl things (to help with election tactic)....but keep continuing/adding to the pressure so those plugs eventually wear out too. You gamble it will happen later rather than sooner.

I guess in a way we see what is the final trust/seigneuriage the TR govt admin has in the end for 2022.
 

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The market confident is very important. Until Erdogan let the economic policy being managed by the expert (economist), market confident will be at the lowest bottom currently regarding to Turkish Lira.

Last night, I watched on CNN International, Becky Anderson program, talking about what happened in Turkey with one correspondent staying in Turkey. Erdogan said high interest is against Islam. I want to say that Erdogan needs to understand that in some extreme situation, Islam allows Muslim to even consume pig. Same analogy with how Islam forbid killing another human, but in the war to protect Islam and the nation, killing combatant opponent is allowed.

Shariah Law is not static, emergency situation can make Muslim do something that is in opposite of what Shariah Islam stated. We also can learn the story of this from famous story in Quran when prophet Musa met with prophet Kidr. Prophet Kidr made many action that is against Islamic law but what he did is right because of the special situation that become the base of the actions.
 

Indos

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1640062063861.png
 
T

Turko

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Erdogan said high interest is against Islam
Ha ha ha . Then why Turkish government bonds give high interest rates so far? He did give high interest rates government bonds..

The HARAM argument is just for trick and trap for conservative voters.

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Indos

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Ha ha ha . Then why Turkish government bonds give high interest rates so far? He did give high interest rates government bonds..

This HARAM argument is just for trap for conservative voters.

Government bond rate (yield) is based on trading, Erdogan doesnt have power to determine the bond yield. It is more like auction (open market trading).
 

Xenon54

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If a cheap trick, the financial markets would not be stupid enough to buy it, no?
Its temporary, will increase again, it just fell to the niveau of a week ago, why are you guys cheering already, the core issues are far from solved and it will only get worse.
I predict 20 Dollar mark soon at this pace.
 
T

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Government bond rate (yield) is based on trading, Erdogan doesnt have power to determine the bond yield. It is more like auction (open market trading).
But he could refuse selling bonds on international market. The real world doesn't listen his lies. The most important thing is he pays high interest rates to foreigner infidels while punishing own citizens with negative rates.
Screenshot_2021-12-21-07-37-03-581_com.android.chrome.jpg

Here is the link of the most cheapest change office in Türkiye. They usually sold USD for little pennies and always have been profitable than others and Banks. All Turkish business buy USD from them.

Interesting thing is the difference between buy and sell is huge!!!!

Buy 13,40-Sell15.09

Currently Are Turkish Banks supplying profitable USD ?
 
T

Turko

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Our outrageous economy happens popular in RF


"After the swing with the exchange rate yesterday evening and this morning, the Turkish population rushed to exchange offices to buy up the cheapened currency"
 

Lool

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Our outrageous economy happens popular in RF


"After the swing with the exchange rate yesterday evening and this morning, the Turkish population rushed to exchange offices to buy up the cheapened currency"
Sorry, Iam not that fluent in english; may you explaim what do u mean by "buy up the cheapened currency"?

From what I understand about the general situation, it seems that turks used the opportunity of low exchange (1 dollar to 11 lira) to start on stocking up on the dollars
 

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