TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

Knowledgeseeker

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According to a moroccan media outlet le360 ambassador Dogan has been recalled by ankara 20 days ago.

His positive remarks about the territorial integrity of Morocco did not fall in good taste for our eastern neighboors. The decision to recall the ambassador was taken as an appeasement measure by Ankara following an outcry.
Rumors about Omer Faruk Dogan’s early withdrawal are varied. His remarks in an interview around five months ago on the highly sensitive Western Sahara issue for Morocco are said to have played a role,” Turkish news outlet T24 has reported.

Suggesting that Dogan’s recalling to Turkiye is directly linked to Algeria’s stance on the Sahara dispute and its dissatisfaction with the ambassador’s remarks, T24 said that “the issue is sensitive and Turkiye needs to adopt a subtle diplomatic stance that will not antagonize Algeria while supporting Morocco.”

The news outlet underlined the Ambassador’s failure to strike this balance in the interview, saying that “he does not take his foot off the gas and favors Morocco too much.”

In an interview with Maroc Hebdo in November 2022, Dogran had expressed Turkiye’s support for Morocco’s territorial integrity and described the Western Sahara dispute as “purely artificial.”
 

Sanchez

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It's "Mehmetçik Busters" actually, it's a patch of the HAF 331 Sq and is a play on Ghostbusters. Sharing patches between participants in an exercise is pretty common.
 

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Nilgiri

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It's "Mehmetçik Busters" actually, it's a patch of the HAF 331 Sq and is a play on Ghostbusters. Sharing patches between participants in an exercise is pretty common.

Yeah what was this IAF guy supposed to do with host? Say no to the patch? Any visiting airforce would do the same....and has done the same.

Turk AF person visting Pakistan would say no to wearing some patch taking some dig on IAF? I dont think so.

As for some of the other snarky/sneer comments/reactions here.... if it were a real issue we would have a fairly visceral reaction at large to Central Asian Turkic countries (where the Moghuls originated, if we are to use that instead of their heavy Persianized culture)

Yet they frequently visit India (and vice versa) for military training and exercises at all levels (past socioeconomic and cultural exchange) with no problem.

They themselves speak a lot of Russian (even to us) as their first language for a reason too, or they have it as 2nd language....should we assume this drives some complex ingrained as to the reason that ought to be brought up?...given who conquered them in the recent era to leave this legacy?

Besides, if the pan-Turkic shared assertion is to be asserted to this degree, we better see some actual sustained action (at all levels, and not just words among some laypeople) on the ongoing modern day subjugation of Turkic people in NW PRC, the incarceration facilities can be seen from space.

Do we see it?

If not, it has no muster to use conveniently in disparate tenuous way. Actions speak louder than words in real ongoing time.
 

GoatsMilk

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What does greece and india have in common?

Both got conquered by Turkic people.

I always have to laugh at people that come from countries that got conquered by Turks and still talk big. Quite funny.

At the end of the day if our state policy is to whole heartily take the side of Pakistan in their disputes with India then its to be expected that india will side with our rivals. What exactly that means on paper depends on how much India truly wants to invest, for armenia it didn't mean much.

My suspicion is that India doesn't want problems with us, but erdogan really made it hard for them to not take issue with us.

Unfortunately it is what is, its why i dont really take issue with them selling weapons to armenia or anyone else against us since we already do it to them with Pakistan.

Its a shame because of the big blocs US/EU/China and India, India was the one that Turks could of had a good relationship with. the US/EU will always undermine if if they can, China is culturally completely opposed to us in so many ways, not to even mention the Uygur situation.

But at some point we are going to have to take India seriously, we cant be odds with every major bloc on earth.

Now i dont know the history or the geopolitics of the region, but we should work to bridge the differences between Pakistan and India. we get on great with Pakistan and Bangladesh. Bangladesh gets on great with India. We should help create a win win situation for everyone. Because its a region with massive potential that if it ever grows to super power status they will be a great friend to have.
 
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Afif

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As for some of the other snarky/sneer comments/reactions here.... if it were a real issue we would have a fairly visceral reaction at large to Central Asian Turkic countries (where the Moghuls originated, if we are to use that instead of their heavy Persianized culture)

Yet they frequently visit India (and vice versa) for military training and exercises at all levels (past socioeconomic and cultural exchange) with no problem.

India has somewhat comfortable and functioning diplomatic and economic relationships with majority of Muslim countries (Middles East, central Asia and South east Asia) on state to state level.

Other than that, small Central Asian countries does not comes into limelight at all.

However, this should not be confused with how majority of Indians feels about Muslims countries in general at socio-cultural level. It is too obvious to be even disputable.

Just one example could be Bangladesh. We are not in bed with Pakistan in Kashmir issue nor we sell them sophisticated weapons. Yet I can bet you, Indian public despise us as much as they despise the Turks if not more.
How are you gonna explain that?
So, i don’t think the core issue here is Turkey’s current political position on Kashmir or weapon sells.

Rather, it is probably a mixture of multiple factors. Being Muslim, historical grievance against the Mughals, as well as current geopolitical situation.

Personally, I think India has not much to worry about Turkey’s weapon sell to Pakistan. It is not gonna change the balance of power. In the process Turks are making some money, just like India with Armenia.

About Kashmir even though it is only lip service, I can understand why it irritates India.
In current Turkish leadership's mind, they probably thinks such position will help increasing soft power and develop Turkey's image in Muslim world.

However, how wise and rational this strategy is up for debate.


Besides, if the pan-Turkic shared assertion is to be asserted to this degree, we better see some actual sustained action (at all levels, and not just words among some laypeople) on the ongoing modern day subjugation of Turkic people in NW PRC, the incarceration facilities can be seen from space.

Do we see it?

It mostly depends on how people perceive things. Unfortunately somehow, Uyghur issue never made its way into the limelight.
 
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Afif

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Only way your gonna unite the Islamic world is with conquest.

Not really, such unification is unnecessary. Good economic and geopolitical framework like EU (if possible) is good enough.
 

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Not really, such unification is unnecessary. Good economic and geopolitical framework like EU (if possible) is good enough.

Eu like thing is much better.

But I want it to be more economic and cooperation.

If the union becomes more like The Eu where they intervene in internal politics or external.

You do see some eu countries wanting to leave the eu because they organisation itself constantly intervenes in countries internal matters.

Thats why the support for Eu is drying in Turkiye because Turks dont like it when other countries interfere in their matters.

If Turkiye also joined the EU it will have to sacrifice a lot.

Both of its internal and external interests.
 

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India has somewhat comfortable and functioning diplomatic and economic relationships with majority of Muslim countries (Middles East, central Asia and South east Asia) on state to state level.

Other than that, small Central Asian countries does not comes into limelight at all.

However, this should not be confused with how majority of Indians feels about Muslims countries in general at socio-cultural level. It is too obvious to be even disputable.

Just one example could be Bangladesh. We are not in bed with Pakistan in Kashmir issue nor we sell them sophisticated weapons. Yet I can bet you, Indian public despise us as much as they despise the Turks if not more.
How are you gonna explain that?
So, i don’t think the core issue here is Turkey’s current political position on Kashmir or weapon sells.

Rather, it is probably a mixture of multiple factors. Being Muslim, historical grievance against the Mughals, as well as current geopolitical situation.

Personally, I think India has not much to worry about Turkey’s weapon sell to Pakistan. It is not gonna change the balance of power. In the process Turks are making some money, just like India with Armenia.

About Kashmir even though it is only lip service, I can understand why it irritates India.
In current Turkish leadership's mind, they probably thinks such position will help increasing soft power and develop Turkey's image in Muslim world.

However, how wise and rational this strategy is up for debate.




It mostly depends on how people perceive things. Unfortunately somehow, Uyghur issue never made its way into the limelight.

If its really the case with Bangladesh, there would be nowhere near the amount of BD tourists that come to India each year (more than 2.5 million per year before covid pandemic).... and growing long term the way that it is doing by leaps and bounds. It can be compared to any other country you want....Muslim countries if you so prefer.

I've personally aided 3 Bangladeshis from the Pakistani Defence forum years ago in their respective visits to Bangalore for healthcare....that India went out of its way to make accessible to BD to begin with w.r.t Dr. Devi Shetty et al.

Folks that I have talked to on all range of matters way more than I have with you. Not even going to bring up my closer BD friends.

So to be perfectly honest, I don't take your "want to bet" seriously in any relevant degree or wherever that impression was formed from whatever selective toxified social media experience etc. you have....because the literal larger objective facts say something else entirely.

If you feel so strongly about it, you are better off working on convincing your own country people on all of that to vote with their feet, money, time and everything else to the degree needed....if you feel they actually feel so despised. But they obviously don't.

Just like everywhere else in world, defence + geopolitical enthusiast folk (especially online) are just one sliver of the larger population....I put them in their own compartment regarding their views (given what percolates there inevitably).....but its just one in a much larger space that is the larger country.

In any case I am talking only specifically w.r.t Turkic countries and I dont want to go too off topic.

It is not some reductive "state to state" thing with the Central Asian (Turkic) countries.

There is significant enough trade and tourism occurring relative to the development levels for the larger Muslim world blocks (Arabian, North African, South East Asian, Persian, Turkic et al) w.r.t India....that would be nowhere near the level it is at if its simply "state to state" relations.


Definitely lot more than with Bangladesh, so maybe again you should focus on doing your bit in addressing that first rather than simply asserting on others.

In 2019 India received more than 400,000 tourists from "West Asia" alone:

touristarrivals.jpg


That is more than BD got from the entire world that year (around 300,000 according to most stats I can find).


Where does the bulk come from again?

Bangladesh received three lakh in-bound tourists in 2019, the highest in its history since independence. The figures earlier were 2.48 lakh in 2018, 2.2 lakh in 2017, 1.69 lakh in 2016, 1.18 lakh in 2015.

In 2019, the number of Indian tourists was 270,024, or 89% of the total inbound tourists, according to the tourism board.

So essentially India gets more tourists from just Turkiye than BD gets from the whole world outside of India. Go figure.

So it is lot more complicated in the end that you make it out to be w.r.t India and Muslim world at large.
 

Ryder

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If its really the case with Bangladesh, there would be nowhere near the amount of BD tourists that come to India each year (more than 2.5 million per year before covid pandemic).... and growing long term the way that it is doing by leaps and bounds. It can be compared to any other country you want....Muslim countries if you so prefer.

I've personally aided 3 Bangladeshis from the Pakistani Defence forum years ago in their respective visits to Bangalore for healthcare....that India went out of its way to make accessible to BD to begin with w.r.t Dr. Devi Shetty et al.

Folks that I have talked to on all range of matters way more than I have with you. Not even going to bring up my closer BD friends.

So to be perfectly honest, I don't take your "want to bet" seriously in any relevant degree or wherever that impression was formed from whatever selective toxified social media experience etc. you have....because the literal larger objective facts say something else entirely.

If you feel so strongly about it, you are better off working on convincing your own country people on all of that to vote with their feet, money, time and everything else to the degree needed....if you feel they actually feel so despised. But they obviously don't.

Just like everywhere else in world, defence + geopolitical enthusiast folk (especially online) are just one sliver of the larger population....I put them in their own compartment regarding their views (given what percolates there inevitably).....but its just one in a much larger space that is the larger country.

In any case I am talking only specifically w.r.t Turkic countries and I dont want to go too off topic.

It is not some reductive "state to state" thing with the Central Asian (Turkic) countries.

There is significant enough trade and tourism occurring relative to the development levels for the larger Muslim world blocks (Arabian, North African, South East Asian, Persian, Turkic et al) w.r.t India....that would be nowhere near the level it is at if its simply "state to state" relations.


Definitely lot more than with Bangladesh, so maybe again you should focus on doing your bit in addressing that first rather than simply asserting on others.

In 2019 India received more than 400,000 tourists from "West Asia" alone:

View attachment 56853

That is more than BD got from the entire world that year (around 300,000 according to most stats I can find).


Where does the bulk come from again?



So essentially India gets more tourists from just Turkiye than BD gets from the whole world outside of India. Go figure.

So it is lot more complicated in the end that you make it out to be w.r.t India and Muslim world at large.

Technically even if India is not a Muslim country.

It can be technically counted as apart of the Islamic World.

India nearly came close to joining the OIC think most members actually supported India joining until Pakistan started a hissy fit over it.

I just checked India has like 200 Million Muslims 😮

Thats a pretty big number.
 

Nilgiri

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Technically even if India is not a Muslim country.

It can be technically counted as apart of the Islamic World.

India nearly came close to joining the OIC think most members actually supported India joining until Pakistan started a hissy fit over it.

I just checked India has like 200 Million Muslims 😮

Thats a pretty big number.

OIC isn't that big a deal anyway. Haven't seen anything it's really accomplished.

Even Muslim on Muslim strife within OIC is large, just look at what Iran did in Syria for example to ensure Assad prevailed.

What was the death toll there....so sad.

Yemen is another one ongoing now.

Then in addition to the problems faced in India, Muslim world has various reasons to engage with it....as Muslim world anyway engages a lot with the US (after Iraq war death toll on entirely false basis war), China (Uighur mass collective incarceration) and so on despite it all too.

For India, it is true we are facing social strife (that takes religion form along with other identity forms) and its made worse by lot of our politics.

It is not like Turkiye is a stranger to its own forms of this too, its always a big challenge....it is never easy thing and lot of people (individually or collectively, inside or outside) will exploit these divisions along the way for their personal selfish gain unfortunately.

But we also have lot of success in integration of our large Muslim population (that you have noted) in various parts of the country.

My state in the south has Nagore Dargah for example and its very respected by all communities....it is seen as part and parcel of greater Tamil fabric. My grandpop always used to listen to famous Islamic singer from that dargah (its how I know the songs from memory), lot of Hindus did and still do. Whole state felt at loss when this singer passed away some years back.

To west of us is Kerala with something like 30% Muslim population and 20% Christian population with 50% Hindu. Quite harmonious stable state these days. So we have ready model to learn from in other parts of India where social cohesion is not as good...and fissures are more readily exploitable due to low socioeconomic development and larger collection of grievances looking to scapegoat.

So it is more important for us to keep calling that out and addressing that and also improve and expand relations with the Muslim world as well, Turkiye very much so included.

But this onus is on India to do....a selective sermon from outsiders just makes things worse.

Just like how Turks feel when outsiders reductively do that too, when its really front and centre a challenge for Turks to address, learn from and become stronger in the end.

Anyway, let us see how this decade goes for it.
 

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OIC isn't that big a deal anyway. Haven't seen anything it's really accomplished.

Even Muslim on Muslim strife within OIC is large, just look at what Iran did in Syria for example to ensure Assad prevailed.

What was the death toll there....so sad.

Yemen is another one ongoing now.

Then in addition to the problems faced in India, Muslim world has various reasons to engage with it....as Muslim world anyway engages a lot with the US (after Iraq war death toll on entirely false basis war), China (Uighur mass collective incarceration) and so on despite it all too.

For India, it is true we are facing social strife (that takes religion form along with other identity forms) and its made worse by lot of our politics.

It is not like Turkiye is a stranger to its own forms of this too, its always a big challenge....it is never easy thing and lot of people (individually or collectively, inside or outside) will exploit these divisions along the way for their personal selfish gain unfortunately.

But we also have lot of success in integration of our large Muslim population (that you have noted) in various parts of the country.

My state in the south has Nagore Dargah for example and its very respected by all communities....it is seen as part and parcel of greater Tamil fabric. My grandpop always used to listen to famous Islamic singer from that dargah (its how I know the songs from memory), lot of Hindus did and still do. Whole state felt at loss when this singer passed away some years back.

To west of us is Kerala with something like 30% Muslim population and 20% Christian population with 50% Hindu. Quite harmonious stable state these days. So we have ready model to learn from in other parts of India where social cohesion is not as good...and fissures are more readily exploitable due to low socioeconomic development and larger collection of grievances looking to scapegoat.

So it is more important for us to keep calling that out and addressing that and also improve and expand relations with the Muslim world as well, Turkiye very much so included.

But this onus is on India to do....a selective sermon from outsiders just makes things worse.

Just like how Turks feel when outsiders reductively do that too, when its really front and centre a challenge for Turks to address, learn from and become stronger in the end.

Anyway, let us see how this decade goes for it.

I met some Yemenis they are pretty good people.

So sad to see one of the most ancient countries in the world in such poor state with tribalism, wars, religious extremism, dictatorships and a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Yemen has always been a strategic place to control because it is a gateway to the Indian Ocean and the Horn of Africa.

People think its just desert but the Ottomans actually poured so much money and soldiers just to control Yemen because its a gateway to international trade and of course the staple of Ottoman Culture

ITS COFFEE 😁

Yemenis have always been a tough people who love safeguarding their independance and free will.

Hence why they dont take keen to any kind of invaders even if we share the same religion.

You shpuld check the quora post I did its not mine but a good answer from a Muslim brother about the unity of Muslim countries why it will never happen.
 

Afif

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If its really the case with Bangladesh, there would be nowhere near the amount of BD tourists that come to India each year (more than 2.5 million per year before covid pandemic).... and growing long term the way that it is doing by leaps and bounds. It can be compared to any other country you want....Muslim countries if you so prefer.

I've personally aided 3 Bangladeshis from the Pakistani Defence forum years ago in their respective visits to Bangalore for healthcare....that India went out of its way to make accessible to BD to begin with w.r.t Dr. Devi Shetty et al.

Folks that I have talked to on all range of matters way more than I have with you. Not even going to bring up my closer BD friends.

So to be perfectly honest, I don't take your "want to bet" seriously in any relevant degree or wherever that impression was formed from whatever selective toxified social media experience etc. you have....because the literal larger objective facts say something else entirely.

If you feel so strongly about it, you are better off working on convincing your own country people on all of that to vote with their feet, money, time and everything else to the degree needed....if you feel they actually feel so despised. But they obviously don't.

Just like everywhere else in world, defence + geopolitical enthusiast folk (especially online) are just one sliver of the larger population....I put them in their own compartment regarding their views (given what percolates there inevitably).....but its just one in a much larger space that is the larger country.

In any case I am talking only specifically w.r.t Turkic countries and I dont want to go too off topic.

It is not some reductive "state to state" thing with the Central Asian (Turkic) countries.

There is significant enough trade and tourism occurring relative to the development levels for the larger Muslim world blocks (Arabian, North African, South East Asian, Persian, Turkic et al) w.r.t India....that would be nowhere near the level it is at if its simply "state to state" relations.


Definitely lot more than with Bangladesh, so maybe again you should focus on doing your bit in addressing that first rather than simply asserting on others.

In 2019 India received more than 400,000 tourists from "West Asia" alone:

View attachment 56853

That is more than BD got from the entire world that year (around 300,000 according to most stats I can find).


Where does the bulk come from again?



So essentially India gets more tourists from just Turkiye than BD gets from the whole world outside of India. Go figure.

So it is lot more complicated in the end that you make it out to be w.r.t India and Muslim world at large.

Tourist numbers does not help with the bigger picture tbh.
There are broader (not selective) online and off line statistics that indicates otherwise.

And online opinions does matter. It particularly reflects the youth's opinions on certain topics.
 
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Iran arrested Alireza Akbari, former deputy minister of defence ın 2019. They executed him couple of months ago on charges of espionage for MI6. At the time the British government's reaction was that he is just an innocent British-Iranian dual citizen who Iran is using as a leverage and a hostage just like they have done with many dual citizens in the past (tbf Iran routinely does this, and this practice gives foreign actors a great excuse to use against them in similar cases). U.S. and other European nations also condemned his execution.


Turns out he was indeed a British spy, from 2004 until his arrest in 2019 and gave crucial info on Iran's nuclear program and other military information which lead to discovery of the Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant. I recommend reading the report here. Bear in mind that western intelligence agencies have a goal in mind when disclosing this kind of information and that goal must be important enough to overrule the damage it does to the country's reputation; so the report in the New York Times is definitely written from that perspective, as the publication is the prime source of U.S. center-right deep state propaganda.

 

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Greek Press: "Greece should acquire a range of nuclear weapons to deter Turkey"



Hahahahaaa... So, for some of them, the only hope they can cling to is nuclear deterrence. It is important in terms of showing that some things are beginning to be understood. But this is a dream beyond Grek reach. In anyway it is necessary to warn our neighbours, this will be a direct legitimate reason for pre-emptive strike. The most you can get is the US Nato arsenal depot, where the Greek soldier will never be authorised to enter in it and audit. Or worse, any attempt will have paved the way for us to become a nuclear power in MRBM range, a country that can strike with pinpoint accuracy whole country from a thousand kilometres away, at a depth of engagement you'll never reach. It already has this capability conventionally. All the ingredients for making halva are ready, all we need is a legitimate reason.


Sorry, Turkish-Greek balance is no longer valid. The only window of opportunity they have is just now. Tomorrow, that window will be closed forever.
 

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Greek Press: "Greece should acquire a range of nuclear weapons to deter Turkey"



Hahahahaaa... So, for some of them, the only hope they can cling to is nuclear deterrence. It is important in terms of showing that some things are beginning to be understood. But this is a dream beyond Grek reach. In anyway it is necessary to warn our neighbours, this will be a direct legitimate reason for pre-emptive strike. The most you can get is the US Nato arsenal depot, where the Greek soldier will never be authorised to enter in it and audit. Or worse, any attempt will have paved the way for us to become a nuclear power in MRBM range, a country that can strike with pinpoint accuracy whole country from a thousand kilometres away, at a depth of engagement you'll never reach. It already has this capability conventionally. All the ingredients for making halva are ready, all we need is a legitimate reason.


Sorry, Turkish-Greek balance is no longer valid. The only window of opportunity they have is just now. Tomorrow, that window will be closed forever.
I just hope we are not sitting on our hands all while these things happen. Gotta have nukes, ASAP!
 

Angry Turk !!!

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Greek Press: "Greece should acquire a range of nuclear weapons to deter Turkey"



Hahahahaaa... So, for some of them, the only hope they can cling to is nuclear deterrence. It is important in terms of showing that some things are beginning to be understood. But this is a dream beyond Grek reach. In anyway it is necessary to warn our neighbours, this will be a direct legitimate reason for pre-emptive strike. The most you can get is the US Nato arsenal depot, where the Greek soldier will never be authorised to enter in it and audit. Or worse, any attempt will have paved the way for us to become a nuclear power in MRBM range, a country that can strike with pinpoint accuracy whole country from a thousand kilometres away, at a depth of engagement you'll never reach. It already has this capability conventionally. All the ingredients for making halva are ready, all we need is a legitimate reason.


Sorry, Turkish-Greek balance is no longer valid. The only window of opportunity they have is just now. Tomorrow, that window will be closed forever.
We have a legitimate reason. iran is screaming nukes nukes every other day. That's reason enough. And once we have our own nukes, we should NEVER allow grek to have US nukes stationed.
 

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