TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

what

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Do you ever stop to think? Hmm maybe if the Europeans are scared, we should be too at least a bit?

Because the Americans and Brits are our biggest allies in the NATO.
And the alternative to NATO is a EU led project which we are definitely not part of.
 

Baryshx

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Do you ever stop to think? Hmm maybe if the Europeans are scared, we should be too at least a bit?

Because the Americans and Brits are our biggest allies in the NATO.
And the alternative to NATO is a EU led project which we are definitely not part of.
Turkiye seems to be on its own. Of course, there are Turkic republics, but their economic, military and technological capabilities are limited. Moreover, they all have antidemocratic governments. Nevertheless, relations with these countries should be strengthened.

I think Malaysia and Indonesia should be given more importance. There is Pakistan, even though I don't like it. Bangladesh could be a good ally.
 
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Bozan

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Turkiye seems to be on its own. Of course, there are Turkic republics, but their economic, military and technological capabilities are limited. Moreover, they all have antidemocratic governments.

Nevertheless, relations with these countries should be strengthened. I think Malaysia and Indonesia should be given more importance. There is Pakistan, even though I don't like it. Bangladesh could be a good ally.

Security ally? A country that has to travel the world to help you when the beacons are lit isn't very helpful
 

Iskander

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A court in New York found former US President Donald Trump guilty of fraud in the valuation of Trump Organization assets and ordered him to pay about $355 million, CNN reports.

In addition, Trump will be prohibited from serving as an employee or director of any corporation in New York for three years.

This means that America was led by a fraudster for 4 years!
If he cannot lead a company, then even less so the state.
In short, Trump's song is over.

1708117146503.png
 

what

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Turkiye seems to be on its own. Of course, there are Turkic republics, but their economic, military and technological capabilities are limited. Moreover, they all have antidemocratic governments. Nevertheless, relations with these countries should be strengthened.

I think Malaysia and Indonesia should be given more importance. There is Pakistan, even though I don't like it. Bangladesh could be a good ally.


Allies have no value in case of war if they are on the other end of the globe, unless they are called the United States or Tier 2 countries such as the UK.

The US and NATO are our security backbone. The sooner people realize this, the better.
 

Baryshx

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Allies have no value in case of war if they are on the other end of the globe, unless they are called the United States or Tier 2 countries such as the UK.

The US and NATO are our security backbone. The sooner people realize this, the better.
The US, UK, EU and Arabs (Saudi Arabia, UAE) are also our biggest enemies. They are the heads of the snake who are trying to turn Turkiye into Afghanistan ruled by religious terrorist organizations and sects, who provoke the Kurds into separatism.
 

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The US, UK, EU and Arabs (Saudi Arabia, UAE) are also our biggest enemies. They are the heads of the snake who are trying to turn Turkiye into Afghanistan ruled by religious terrorist organizations and sects, who provoke the Kurds into separatism.
And Iran. But yeah I agree. The task ahead is being strong enough that messing with us is cost-prohibitive.
 

Afif

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Allies have no value in case of war if they are on the other end of the globe, unless they are called the United States or Tier 2 countries such as the UK.

The US and NATO are our security backbone. The sooner people realize this, the better.

In short to medium term Turkish security is imbedded in NATO. (Specially, with USA & UK)

Maybe in the long term when Indonesia, Malaysia & BD becomes developed (and with increasing trade, security & industrial cooperations) we may be able to throw our economic and diplomatic weight behind Türkiye in exchange for the same in potential regional crisis. (That is about it, direct military intervention is not feasible nor realistic for any party)

But there can also be security value of such mutually beneficial alliance. It is possible to develop alternative strategic depth of ammunitions & defence hardware reserve in case of all out war. Like @Anmdt pointed out here.


And I fully support a collaboration in which;
  • Goktug missiles will be manufactured in Pakistan, with some parts supplied and some manufactured locally, assembled, tested and integrated into PAF assets.
  • The development of Faaz will be supported by TR, including the design of the missile and know-how on certain components. As far as possible, it will be independent of TR in order to create an alternative supply chain.
  • Faaz will be integrated with Turkish AF assets, making Faaz interchangeable with Goktug.
  • Create a common stockpile that can be drawn upon in an emergency.
And this common stockpile shouldn't just cover TR-PK, it should better cover the Turkic world and trustworthy allies as well.
 

what

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The US, UK, EU and Arabs (Saudi Arabia, UAE) are also our biggest enemies. They are the heads of the snake who are trying to turn Turkiye into Afghanistan ruled by religious terrorist organizations and sects, who provoke the Kurds into separatism.

The same EU that pours billions into our country for decades, have their companies operate here, give us tax breaks so we can have 50% of our trade with the EU. The US, that has been stationing their nukes in our country for protection.

They must be terrible allies.

Let me tell you something, there is not only black and white, most of the time the world is grey.

You however choose to only see black, you only see the bad, because you choose too. The EU as an organization consists of dozen of countries, with changing governments every 4 years. Do you even know what the definition of an enemy is?

I'm glad that our military and foreign policy is not run by people like you. Although we had some duds in the past too.
 

what

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Security backbone?

How did they secure Turkey when we shot down that Russian plane?

We're the only country that has ever shot down a Russian plane (this was before Ukraine war).
What did Russia do? They attacked us in Syria, where they could hide behind the Syrian Army and push the blame on them. The US, if someone dared to shoot down their plane would have retaliated hard, Russia did attack defenseless soldiers and blamed the SAA. The Americans annihilated an entire group of Wagner mercenaries for less. Thats all they could do, because attacking us directly would have meant war.
 

Baryshx

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And Iran. But yeah I agree. The task ahead is being strong enough that messing with us is cost-prohibitive.
Yes, Iran. At least Iran does not use the Kurdish label. Because the same thing exists within Iran itself. But otherwise Iran would use the Kurds against us. It uses the Shia, Sunni and Wahabi nonsense.
The same EU that pours billions into our country for decades, have their companies operate here, give us tax breaks so we can have 50% of our trade with the EU. The US, that has been stationing their nukes in our country for protection.

They must be terrible allies.

Let me tell you something, there is not only black and white, most of the time the world is grey.

You however choose to only see black, you only see the bad, because you choose too. The EU as an organization consists of dozen of countries, with changing governments every 4 years. Do you even know what the definition of an enemy is?

I'm glad that our military and foreign policy is not run by people like you. Although we had some duds in the past too.
I did not deny this. The biggest factor in our development is Atatürk and our relations with these countries afterwards. But I perceived your article as if we should completely entrust our defense to these countries.

We are not the guardians and outposts of these countries. Against Russia, China and Iran...
 

what

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But I perceived your article as if we should completely entrust our defense to these countries.

We are not the guardians and outposts of these countries. Against Russia, China and Iran...

No, but we should aim to have better relations with our allies. Positive agenda, steps in the right direction, like joining Sky Shield, even if its just for PR.
 

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We're the only country that has ever shot down a Russian plane (this was before Ukraine war).
What did Russia do? They attacked us in Syria, where they could hide behind the Syrian Army and push the blame on them. The US, if someone dared to shoot down their plane would have retaliated hard, Russia did attack defenseless soldiers and blamed the SAA. The Americans annihilated an entire group of Wagner mercenaries for less. Thats all they could do, because attacking us directly would have meant war.

That was not my question.

How did NATO and the US, our 'security backbones' help us after we shot that Russian plane?

Answer: They removed all their Patriot batteries.
 

Baryshx

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No, but we should aim to have better relations with our allies. Positive agenda, steps in the right direction, like joining Sky Shield, even if its just for PR.
Allies are controversial, so-called Allies are more appropriate. I don't see these countries as Allies. A relationship at the level of mutual interests is enough. Same with relations with China, Russia and Iran. I am not in favor of Turkiye joining any pole, except Turkic Republics, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc. Maybe Iran in the future if its governance system and leaders change.
 

Afif

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That was not my question.

How did NATO and the US, our 'security backbones' help us after we shot that Russian plane?

Answer: They removed all their Patriot batteries.

They didn't. Spain kept it even after the deployment period ended. Italy deployed a new system. German, dutch & US Patriot deployment period ended. (All of it was predermined) They could have extended the deployment like Spain but they didn't because they had different threat assessment. However, NATO did explicitly state at the time that they will rapidly deploy necessary assets if situation escalates. There is no reason to believe it was a false promise.
 

_Mu_

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Over the 2010s, Turkey has become a much more independent geopolitical player, but at the same time less predictable and does not correspond to the ideas of the United States in general about what kind of Turkey the US would like to see as a “model” for the Muslim countries of the Middle East. As the instability in the region increased, Turkey also no longer an “island of stability” for the US, but a source of new, often unexpected impulses on a regional scale.
It is evident that the Turks do not want to be sidelined by the US or the West when it comes to their own national security concerns. Neither do they want to be hamstrung by easily severed logistics. Clearly, they want to be, and have been thinking about becoming, important players in regional politics, and their public national security policy says as much. They have become involved at every opportunity in multi-national military interventions. They have shown a willingness to defy the US. They have industrial and procurement plans aimed at strategic autonomy.[32]

From strategic partnership to adversary​

Further information: Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act
The situation is set to deteriorate significantly after the passage of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019, with an amendment added by Senator John McCain requiring the Trump administration to submit a detailed report to Congress on the status of US–Turkey relations. The Department of Defense (DOD) submitted a mostly classified report to Congress in November 2018 followed by H.R. 648 which required the DOD report on the issue in 2019.[33] On 14 December 2020, the US listed Turkey as America's "Adversary" and consequently imposed restrictions against the Turkish Defence Industry Agency.[34] Before Turkey listed in CAATSA and barred from approaching new NATO technological development, Turkey was excluded from the joint F-35 project in Jul 17, 2019.[35] NBC reported that U.S. ejects Turkey from F-35 fighter jet program in the sign of worsening ties between Pentagon following Syria, Iraq wars.[36]

In 2018, the Council on Foreign Relations recommended “US needs to develop alternatives to Incirlik Air Base. The use of the base to advance U.S. interests is no longer assured.”[9] In 2019, US and Greece signed "Revised Defense Cooperation Agreement". The agreement was described as critical to responding to new security challenges in the eastern Mediterranean Sea. In 2021, a new agreement the "Greek-American Mutual Defense Cooperation Agreement" permitted the US military to use Georgula Barracks in Greece's central province of Volos, Litochoro Training Ground, and army barracks in the northeastern port city of Alexandroupoli apart from the naval base in Souda Bay in Crete which the US has been operating since 1969.[37] In short couple years, Turkey saw shifting NATO powers to its western neighbor. Anadolu Agency reported growing US military presence in Greece can lead to undesired scenarios in the Aegean ‘Deploying more US troops to Greece would disrupt NATO’s powers,’ [38] In 2021, Biden's recognition of the Armenian genocide reflects the dispensability of Turkey-US relations, on the other hand, Biden also emphasized the relations with Armenia.[39] After Azerbaijani blocking Zangezur corridor in 2023, American Enterprise Institute scholar Michael Rubin called Biden to act,[40] and talks with Armenia to establish a military base in the Zangezur corridor.[41] While Sep 11, 2023, a small contingent of US special forces trained Armenian soldiers during the "Eagle Partner" exercise in Armenia.[42]

On October 12, 2023, President Biden declared "particularly the actions by the Government of Turkey to conduct a military offensive into northeast Syria, undermines the campaign to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, endangers civilians, and further threatens to undermine the peace, security, and stability in the region". Following this declaration President Biden reestablished Executive Order 13894 which stated Turkey is an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States constituted by the situation in and in relation to Syria.[43] Following the 2023 Ankara bombing, Turkish intelligence officials established that the assailants arrived from Syria by paraglider,[44] where they had been trained. Six days before the declaration, Turkey began bombing their facilities in Syria, October 2023 Northern Syria clashes.[45] CJTF–OIR downed a Turkish drone, while doing airstrikes on PKK militants around Hassakeh which came within 500 m of American troops.[46] A day before the executive order made public, Turkey declared to intensify strikes on PKK in Iraq and Syria.[47]

According to Council on Foreign Relations, the United States needs to adjust its expectations, ask for less, and develop other options because Turkey only remains formally a NATO ally but not a partner of the United States.[9] Since the deterioration of the relationship, there has been growing Turkish-Russian security cooperation.[24]
ecurity backbone. The sooner people realize this, the better.
 

Scott Summers

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They didn't. Spain kept it even after the deployment period ended. Italy deployed a new system. German, dutch & US Patriot deployment period ended. (All of it was predermined) They could have extended the deployment like Spain but they didn't because they had different threat assessment. However, NATO did explicitly state at the time that they will rapidly deploy necessary assets if situation escalates. There is no reason to believe it was a false promise.

I remember only the Dutch and German newspapers that the West should stay neutral and that this was not a NATO case because Turkey fired the first shot.

Different US senators spoke about the situation and they didnt spoke supportively.

NATO left Turkey alone.
 

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