TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Mehmed Ali]

There are 2 groups of people in the west who chritisise Aya Sofia as the mosque.
First so called religious, during their stay in Constantinopol they robbed and made Aya Sofia whore House
Second groups who started " enligtiment" by making an orgy in Noter Dame and spit roasting and eating Duchess of Perpignan in Versailles.
So fuck them

 

[Baryshx]

Bro stop posting nonsense , Hagia Sofia became a Mosque because people around became Muslim like Hagia became a Church when people around became a christian , perhaps some of you dont know but Hagia Sofia was PAGAN TEMPLE .
So its my own right and job what can i do with my home .
As 'accroding to islam' Thousends of churches stayed CHURCH under Ottoman rule throuout Balkans and europe .

You cannot interfere in other people's religion and places of worship. Just because Christians are stupid, should Muslims do the same?

 

[Baryshx]

According to Islam if someone surrenders voluntary then it can remain a church if not then it is acceptable to charge it to a mosque.

Where is it written in the Quran? We should not present other people's ideas as Islam.

 

[Afif]

Egypt is a failing country and it is too big to be saved. TR made many mistakes regarding Egypt. We should have stayed neutral against Sisi who cares which general made a coup in Egypt? This is because of the Muslim Brotherhood. IMHO the worst mistake of Turkish ME policy is supporting Muslim Brotherhood. MB is a terrorist organization now. We should have released a light criticism about the coup and should have continued the business. We should have jumped off the MB wagon when Sisi made a successful coup. Egypt also made a big mistake by trying to confront the Turkish military in Libya. Well Sisi is outplayed by KSA, UAE, Russia, and the USA they all said we got your back bro but when shit hit the fan only UAE and Russia sent help. Those got obliterated with TB2s and Kirpi MRAPs. Egypt signed deals with Greece hoping that the EU will ease its economic pain but Egypt has a population of 120 million and is too big to be saved. KSA, UAE is fed up with the failures of Egypt and cut a big portion of financial help. Now Egypt is on a crash course and it is past the point of saving unless a big Arabic effort involving all rich Arabic countries and probably another big financier like China comes and bails them out. IMHO neither the EU nor the US has the appetite for bankrolling Egyptian debt.

Irrespective of what Turkish foreing policy should have been, Muslim brotherhood is NOT a terrorist organization.

Just because they are islamist doesn't automatically makes them terrorist organization.

 

[Mehmed Ali]

You cannot interfere in other people's religion and places of worship. Just because Christians are stupid, should Muslims do the same?

I don't want to be obnoxious or take this discussion futherer then necessary but i remember seeing somewhere a Greek Ortodox monk saying that without Ottomans Aya Sofia would had collapse eventually. It was found by Mehmet Han almost in ruin. The same monk stated that he prefers to see woman in hejjabs in Aya Sofia then semi naked Western tourists also he added that the financial situation of the Ortodox Church and its liberty was much better under the Ottomans then modern Greek state. I appreciate your point of you but at least you should have some insight apart should have would have. In this matter my friend Greek doctor of history and his uncle who is Ortodox monk on Athos agree. By the way in my life I met a Greek or two who are much more sympathetic to Ottoman history then many many Turks. Their reasoning was often pretty logical.

 

[Mehmed Ali]

Where is it written in the Quran? We should not present other people's ideas as Islam.

It is not Qur'an, it is Sunnah , I am sure that Hz Umar understood it pretty well.

 

[Afif]

It is going off topic guys, take it here if you want to continue.

Combat, War, Geopolitics History and Analysis

Austrians are just Southern Germans just like Bavarians. Austrians have always been Germans they only got left out in German unification due to Prussia. German history since the 1700s has been characterised by the Prussia-Austria rivalry both wanted to control all of Germany. Not to mention...

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[Baryshx]

I don't want to be obnoxious or take this discussion futherer then necessary but i remember seeing somewhere a Greek Ortodox monk saying that without Ottomans Aya Sofia would had collapse eventually. It was found by Mehmet Han almost in ruin. The same monk stated that he prefers to see woman in hejjabs in Aya Sofia then semi naked Western tourists also he added that the financial situation of the Ortodox Church and its liberty was much better under the Ottomans then modern Greek state. I appreciate your point of you but at least you should have some insight apart should have would have. In this matter my friend Greek doctor of history and his uncle who is Ortodox monk on Athos agree. By the way in my life I met a Greek or two who are much more sympathetic to Ottoman history then many many Turks. Their reasoning was often pretty logical.

I mean people should not present their actions and preferences as Islam. The Quran is self-evident. Hadith, sunnah, fiqh, theology, etc. cannot take precedence over the Quran. It cannot be applied as a rule, This is Fatih Sultan Mehmet's own choice...

Just like the edict to kill brothers for the sake of order in the world

 

[Mehmed Ali]

I mean people should not present their actions and preferences as Islam. The Quran is self-evident. Hadith, sunnah, fiqh, theology, etc. cannot take precedence over the Quran. It cannot be applied as a rule, This is Fatih Sultan Mehmet's own choice...

Just like the edict to kill brothers for the sake of order in the world

Qur'an is above those things which you stated but if there is no Sunnah how we would know how to pray? And many other things , Sunnah is integral part of Islamic jurisprudence.
As of killing the brothers, well I can't say that I agree but for example without His dear majesty Mehmet Han Bosnian people wouldn't exist.
People are not perfect yet people often demand that from others.
Next to my house in Sarajevo is an old Ortodox Church built by Muslim approval and money. You see there is the Narration that people were were pollinating the date trees by hand , The Prophet was passing by and suggested maybe that they shouldn't do it, which they accepted. The yield wasn't good so they complained on what The Prophet answered " What is religion and morals you absolutely obey me in all other things I am a man just like you " So as camarad Stalin said the absolute truth belongs only to God .

 

[ADMusa]

The normalization between Turkey and the Arab tyrants is a temporary one. Provided Turkey doesn't allow a Western puppet dictator to be installed in Libya and Somalia, this normalization will be shortlived.

 

[Lool]

Ministers don't matter either, it's as simple as that. Turkey is such a country.

What is Hagia Sophia for God's sake...it should either be demolished or remain a church. It is the fault of Fatih Sultan Mehmet.

According to Islam, you should not touch the place of worship of Christians, if you are a conqueror, you can demolish it if you want.

You are 100% right about the matter regarding how Islam and even prophet Muhammad pbuh prohibited the act of either converting the places of worship of other religions into mosques or destorying them

the mian problem isnt in the rule that Islam imposed but the narrative. The narrative you are stating is the European narrative that is brainwashing the people; under such narrative, the Turks are invaders and illegally occupied the lands belonging to the Byzantine empire. Therefore, by Islam's rules, Haghia Sophia shouldnt be converted to a mosque and Turks should get the hell out from the land known as "Turkey" nowadays

However, the truth is that the Turks at the time, under the banner of the Ottomans, werent invaders but liberators as they introduced the true religion of God which is supported by both a saying from prophet Muhammad: "and open costantinopole" which translates to "introduce the religion of God" as well as the fact that many Byzantine officers converted to Islam and joined the Ottoman state at the time

Finally, Sultan Mehmid II when he liberated Costantinopole bought the Haghia Sophia mosque from the Christians at the time; therefore, it is 100% legal for it to be a mosque

What the Westerners are trying to do involves 3 main things
1- Eliminate proper Turkish history and portraying them as invaders
2- Protecting iconic & historical Christian sites that the Christians legally lost
3- Eliminating and portraying the Islamic religion as a one of barbarian way of life

Dont fall to the Western trap since if we want to talk about places of worship, then before talking about Haghia Sophia, we should talk about the thousands of Ottoman mosques in Europe which had been converted into Churches after the Ottoman state fell but nope... the Christians just want to remove any ounce of either Turkish or Islamic vicotry from history and one of this was the Haghia Sophia mosque

That is why when Erdogan converted it into a mosque, I supported that so that Europe knows that what belongs to the Turks should have its fate decided by the Turks and not some wannabes from Europe. If they want it as a mosque then so be it and if they want it as a museum then so be it and the Haghia Sophia mosqueshould be a sign of Turkish success and not for it to be closed just to satisfy some Westerners inferiority complex

 

[Ryder]

Winner takes all.

Spoils of War end of story.

Thats how the world ran.

 

[Ryder]

It is said that Egyptian troops got killed covertly in Libya by Turkish drones.

I wonder how true that is to be honest another story of how French advisors helping Haftar got trapped in Al Watiyah.

Dont know true it is really but a lot of stuff that has happened in Libya which is all vague.

People think Libya is just another place but we do have historical and cultural links to this country hemce the foreign policy plus the mavi vatan doctrine. The Turks are actually the 3rd biggest ethnic group in the country.

Some say the civil wars are also ethnically and tribal as the 3 groups compete with each other. Turks are mainly present in the coasts of Libya like Mistrata.

Modern day Libyan is a mix of Amazighs, Arabs and Turks.

 

[Gary]

The "West" is a different story but for the majority of the US media, prior to the early 2000s something like this would've been unthinkable. That's not to say they were unbiased, but the culture within journalism in the preceding period strongly valued impartial reporting and this kind of state bootlicking would've been treated with disdain.

The reason for the change is that the media has been taken over by the totalitarian ideology known as Progressivism, aka Rainbow-Marxism, and the state has learned to exploit this in order to control it (and may have even caused it). Hence why media trust has gone from most Americans from all across the spectrum trusting the media to everybody distrusting it except for brainwashed Democrats who are most susceptible to Progressive propaganda:
View attachment 56253

No this is not a progressivism only problem. All media is just a tool of propaganda. Left leaning movements encourage free speech when they're weak and under-represented...but turns totalitarian once they're in power. thing is, right, far right group is already doing the very same since ages and they don't even have to pretend encouraging free speech.

 

[GoatsMilk]

The normalization between Turkey and the Arab tyrants is a temporary one. Provided Turkey doesn't allow a Western puppet dictator to be installed in Libya and Somalia, this normalization will be shortlived.

we must have had a thousand "normalisations" under AK party, none of them lasted longer then a few months. What matters ultimately when dealing with these states is power. I suspect a big part of advertising all of these military developments is about sending a message to these hostile states. Either we make a win win deal in the east med where we all win and by doing so it forces us to protect each other, or they can continue the path of hostility and eventually the Turkish state will destroy their ambitions via direct military force. Libya really was just a small taste of things to come.

What was achieved in Libya with such a token force and using some cheap TB2 drones was a big wake up call, its only been a few years since then and TB2 is already old news as far as Turkish drone capabilities have come along.

If the Egyptians or rather Israeli puppet of choice sisi, the man mossed told to even attend prays to deceive the people of Egypt is coming around its not that he wants to, its because he sees the writing on the wall.

Many of these arab despots from sisi to the house of saud felt they could hide behind russian military strength in Libya. The Russian shitshow in Ukraine is making these nations recalculate if they are protected from Turkish might in Libya. Russians military look like they are on a downward spiral, while Turkiye looks like its military capabilities are growing on a monthly basis.

Never take any of their actions in good faith, this is not how these people think or behave, everything is either a deception to screw you later or its a survival mechanism.

 

[TheInsider]

Irrespective of what Turkish foreing policy should have been, Muslim brotherhood is NOT a terrorist organization.

Just because they are islamist doesn't automatically makes them terrorist organization.

According to Arabic leaders and Israel, MB is a terrorist organization, and who cares what others think? MB is nothing outside the Arabic world. TR doesn't recognize MB as a terrorist org but Turkiye is not an Arabic country and the influence of MB is very limited even though AKP was a MB worshipper party until recently. MB is regarded as a terrorist org in Arabic countries this is what matters.

 

[Agha Sher]

According to Arabic leaders and Israel, MB is a terrorist organization, and who cares what others think? MB is nothing outside the Arabic world. TR doesn't recognize MB as a terrorist org but Turkiye is not an Arabic country and the influence of MB is very limited even though AKP was a MB worshipper party until recently. MB is regarded as a terrorist org in Arabic countries this is what matters.

PKK is not regarded as a terrorist organisation by most Kurds. Therefore PKK is not a terrorist organisation.

see your flawed logic?

 

[I_Love_F16]

PKK is not regarded as a terrorist organisation by most Kurds. Therefore PKK is not a terrorist organisation.

see your flawed logic?

Depends if they are proning their ideas and doctrines by violence. If not they should not be listed as such. But they’re still dangerous to Turkiye nonetheless as they are a staunch opposant of secularism.

 

[TheInsider]

PKK is not regarded as a terrorist organisation by most Kurds. Therefore PKK is not a terrorist organisation.

see your flawed logic?

I never said MB is not a terrorist org or terrorist org, it is not my problem. I underlined the perception inside the Arabic world. MB is a terrorist for some and not a terrorist for others. PKK is a terrorist for the US, EU, and TR but not for Russia though our Western partners find absurd ways to circumvent their own stances on that matter. PKK and its offshoots are active in Turkiye and neighboring countries so it is big when Turkiye declares PKK as a terrorist because we have a big influence in the areas PKK operates. Do we care if Nicaragua declares PKK as a non-terrorist org.? No, it is irrelevant. Same with MB. It doesn't matter how Turkiye sees MB we do not have enough influence in countries where MB is active. Israel, Egypt, UAE, and KSA declared MB as terrorists this far outweighs whatever we can do.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Just out of interest has the MB succeeded anywhere? Is there any countries where they are in power and the country runs generally fine? One thing i remember Morsi doing was his rush to Islamises egyption society, so much so that even erdogan when visiting morsi in egypt made a speech about secularism and its importance and that the egyptions shouldn't lose sight of it.