TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Rooxbar]

If it wasn't for Egypt's cooperation with Israel and EU, all of their plans against Turkey in East Med would be foiled.

 

[what]

I'm all for cooperation, but how about normalization and stability first?

I swear our foreign policy and foreign relations with certain countries only knows black and white. We and the entire region doesnt know how to stay in the grey sometimes and just agree to disagree. Its best friends or foes. For those not keeping track we went from best friends (Mursi) to mortal foes (Sisi) to best friends (again Sisi) within a couple of months now.

No partnership can thrive when your relations are this extreme.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Or, they buy your critical platform at low numbers and betray you by sharing everything they can with your enemies.

its got to be balanced. But if the aim is to succeed. If you can sell your platforms and the make the nation dependent on you, it will gain you leverage. Sell them a monkey version if you have to.

But supporting loser islamist political entities, or constantly talking shit is not going to win us anything. Just look at Muslim brotherhood, Hamas and Hezbollah. Meanwhile Isrealis are pounding the absolute shit out of Gaza.

 

[Afif]

I'm all for cooperation, but how about normalization and stability first?

I swear our foreign policy and foreign relations with certain countries only knows black and white. We and the entire region doesnt know how to stay in the grey sometimes and just agree to disagree. Its best friends or foes. For those not keeping track we went from best friends (Mursi) to mortal foes (Sisi) to best friends (again Sisi) within a couple of months now.

No partnership can thrive when your relations are this extreme.

I noticed it earlier.
All the the good things that distinguishes Turks politically from rest of the Middle East and envied upon, cool head and long term strategic consistency doesn’t seems to be one of them. At least when it comes to leadership. (Of course I shouldn’t generalise average Turk as I never been too Türkiye)

 

[Spitfire9]

A declaration of good intent by both parties.

Watching from afar for the last few weeks, I would say that negativity has dominated Erdogan's utterances. This declaration is a refreshing change. I don't expect Turkiye's view of Israel to change while it continues to commit war crimes/crimes against humanity in Gaza. What are the chances of it changing its view of Hamas, which committed war crimes/crimes against humanity in Israel? So long as Turkiye supports organisations that commit war crimes/crimes against humanity I see little chance of it finding the countries of Europe wanting a closer relationship.

It is a bizarre thing that the governments of the EU and UK and Turkiye support entities that commit war crimes/crimes against humanity. At least they enjoy that in common.

 

[DBdev]

America is consistently pro-Israel for example. No matter what they stick to their wrong policies. Would you say that is wiser than what Erdogan is doing? Making peace with Greeks for example despite their CONSISTENT belligerence when Israel puts herself in a collision course with Turks? I myself can't tell anymore. So many twists, he is like a belly dancer.

 

[Ravager]

I am not sure how smart this is. With all the tension in the Mediterranean Sea, the unpredictability of unfolding events, the situation with Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood, what if something wrong happens again and Turkiye have to choose a side?

I understand that Turkiye needs more friends than enemies but isn't it too early for endeavours like these? I mean just 3-4 years ago there was a real chance of Turkish forces to get into a direct fight with Egyptian forces for Libya. Turkiye just started serious diplomatic relationship with Egypt all over again. Moving aside the internal political situation in Pakistan we still have a long lasting strategic partnership with them and we don't even have to comment Indonesia but Egypt is for sure a strange choice for starting strategic cooperation. I hope the decision maker don't regret this at later stage.

Just like fishing ... Just because only three rods were catching the fish . It doesn't mean all the other 5 are meaningless ..
Did i have to even dumbed down for more ?? Seriously ... Take a long and broader view people ...
And chills out will you ...


Sigh...

 

[Kartal1]

Just like fishing ... Just because only three rods were catching the fish . It doesn't mean all the other 5 are meaningless ..
Did i have to even dumbed down for more ?? Seriously ... Take a long and broader view people ...
And chills out will you ...


Sigh...

Broader view? Just three years ago it was this:

In the same year Turkish security personnel were martyred in Libya.


This is from one month ago:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719082408547414475

 

[Spitfire9]

America is consistently pro-Israel for example. No matter what they stick to their wrong policies. Would you say that is wiser than what Erdogan is doing? Making peace with Greeks for example despite their CONSISTENT belligerence when Israel puts herself in a collision course with Turks? I myself can't tell anymore. So many twists, he is like a belly dancer.

I see the creation of a religious state in the 'old' area of Palestine as an action that was almost certain to create problems and injustice. Sadly the unwavering support of the US for Israel has served to magnify and to perpetuate those consequences.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I am not sure how smart this is. With all the tension in the Mediterranean Sea, the unpredictability of unfolding events, the situation with Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood, what if something wrong happens again and Turkiye have to choose a side?

I understand that Turkiye needs more friends than enemies but isn't it too early for endeavours like these? I mean just 3-4 years ago there was a real chance of Turkish forces to get into a direct fight with Egyptian forces for Libya. Turkiye just started serious diplomatic relationship with Egypt all over again. Moving aside the internal political situation in Pakistan we still have a long lasting strategic partnership with them and we don't even have to comment Indonesia but Egypt is for sure a strange choice for starting strategic cooperation. I hope the decision maker don't regret this at later stage.

The type of projects to be developed is important here bro. It is not right to give yesterday's "hostile" states access to state of art technologies such as KAAN or Rf/IIR sensors, missiles or jammers but developing many joint projects with those in high tech civilian areas such as passenger aircrafts and non-critical defence technologies will increase Turkiye's effectiveness and make these countries dependent on Turkiye to some extent and create extra funds for our projects. If you have noticed, these countries are demanding serious technology from Turkiye but mostly purchasing West's monkey version frigates and aircrafts without any conditions or tech demand. That's why we need to pursue a balanced and rational export control policy with these states.

 

[Ravager]

Broader view? Just three years ago it was this:

View attachment 63674
View attachment 63675
View attachment 63676

In the same year Turkish security personnel were martyred in Libya.


This is from one month ago:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719082408547414475

Everything has to start from something . It doesn't matter if it doesn't working right now . It could be working tomorrow . Not to mention it was an US Puppet country at present .who knows what would be their situation tomorrow ..
It's nothing but sounding gestures/moves yet that move has to be taken anyway ..

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1733135843785646257

 

[RMZN]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731964922496782336

Turks have been constantly insulting the Japanese on twitter over the PKK thing and now the situation has escalated so that some of their parliamentarians are openly hostile to Turkey, citing Erdogan's support for Hamas, a terrorist organization

Now the same japanese politician got community noted

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1733005212250673509

 

[GoatsMilk]

Japan in all truth is just a vassal, pretty much all these east Asian nations that came under american domination behave as such. If white man says PKK is good they will follow lead, they have to. No different to how the smaller european states behave like sweden.

Its also why these nations are relatively left in peace by the westerners, meanwhile a country like Turkiye finds big alliances working daily to undermine her. When your the white mans lackey, he pats you on the back and says good boy. When do your own thing, they throw everything got against you.

 

[Spitfire9]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1733135843785646257

How many super powers are there in the world? One (US)? Two (US+Russia or US+PRC)? Three (US+Russia+PRC)? A super power can push other countries around if it wants to. Turkiye is not a super power. If anyone in Turkiye thinks it is, he or she is deluding himself or herself.

About the conditions Turkiye sets:

(a) Not even the US can decide that Palestine exists as a state.
(b) Who is going to make Israel pay damages?
(c) People accused of war crimes are often tried at the International Criminal Court. They need to be arrested first.

Tthe statement made by the chairman of the Turkish Nationalist Movement Party sounds pretty stupid to me. Turkiye is deliberately creating problems for Sweden and for NATO... and for Turkiye. It can exclude Sweden - it has a right to do that. It cannot dictate to the US that it must supply F-16. It cannot dictate to all the Eurofighter countries that they must supply Typhoon.

Has it occurred to Turkiye that the UK might get tired of the problems that Turkiye is creating and stop trying to persuade Germany to lift its block on EF exports, something that the Turkish government has just made even more difficult?

What is the next demand we can expect from Turkiye - RR participation in the KAAN engine programme will be suspended unless the UK recognises Palestine? Let Turkiye go ahead, if it wants to cause itself even more problems than it already has.

 

[moz68k]

Japan in all truth is just a vassal, pretty much all these east Asian nations that came under american domination behave as such. If white man says PKK is good they will follow lead, they have to. No different to how the smaller european states behave like sweden.

Its also why these nations are relatively left in peace by the westerners, meanwhile a country like Turkiye finds big alliances working daily to undermine her. When your the white mans lackey, he pats you on the back and says good boy. When do your own thing, they throw everything got against you.

How many super powers are there in the world? [...]

"Sub-Imperial Power: Australia in the International Arena" by Clinton Fernandes, a Professor of International and Political Studies at the University of New South Wales, is an excellent book on this subject.

While the book is ostensibly about Australia, this framing of sub-imperial powers being strictly subordinate to America's "rules-based international order" (read, empire) applies to practically all of its "allies". Sub-imperial powers have their sovereignty as long as they remain within the confines of America's interests.

The genius of America's empire when compared to other historic examples like the British or French is this delusion of equality and sovereignty that its subjects believe, or consciously fail to recognize, as it is in the interests of their ruling classes to do so. Under the British, you were literally a dominion; under the Americans, you have seat at the UN. Brilliant. If I had to pinpoint the moment in history when the British and French empires fell, it would be the 1956 Suez Crisis. When the U.S. said stop, they did exactly that—hence, being relegated to mere sub-imperial powers under America's rules-based order.

International trade, financial institutions, defence, even history, popular culture and collective memory are so thoroughly warped in favor of the U.S., that it is arguably pointless to stand against them. None of their subordinates do. The current Turkish administration pretends it does, but doesn't really—not when it begins to hurt their coffers.

The Soviets were perhaps their peer at some point during the cold war, but being more ideologically driven, they inevitably fell. And when they did, those individuals who championed and welcomed the rules-based order packaged, sold and pillaged everything the fledgling federation had. Establishing democracy was never the intention. Those that did the pillaging eventually became the oligarchs* who are simply a less refined version of the reality underpinning America's rule: Greed.

A maddening example of the limitations of this rules-based order: the American Service-Members' Protection Act. This law literally gives the U.S. the power to, if necessary, invade the Netherlands if a U.S. Service Member were to be tried at the International Criminal Court in the Hague. Russia: fair game. Israel: absolutely not. What a farce!

I'm not some radical leftist. I don't want to see the current world order fall. Not because I'm happy with it, but rather because I've been conditioned to fear what comes next. What I am, though, is a person woefully aware that the majority of the world, including U.S. citizens, live under an empire that is deceptively comfortable—at least for us lucky few in the upper tiers of Maslow's hierarchy—yet deeply unjust, hypocritical, dehumanizing and destructive. I am also aware that most are powerless to change, let alone stop it.

* "Tut-tut! Let's call them that. They aren't sharing the money with us anymore!" — the State Department

 

[GoatsMilk]

"Sub-Imperial Power: Australia in the International Arena" by Clinton Fernandes, a Professor of International and Political Studies at the University of New South Wales, is an excellent book on this subject.

While the book is ostensibly about Australia, this framing of sub-imperial powers being strictly subordinate to America's "rules-based international order" (read, empire) applies to practically all of its "allies". Sub-imperial powers have their sovereignty as long as they remain within the confines of America's interests.

The genius of America's empire when compared to other historic examples like the British or French is this delusion of equality and sovereignty that its subjects believe, or consciously fail to recognize, as it is in the interests of their ruling classes to do so. Under the British, you were literally a dominion; under the Americans, you have seat at the UN. Brilliant. If I had to pinpoint the moment in history when the British and French empires fell, it would be the 1956 Suez Crisis. When the U.S. said stop, they did exactly that—hence, being relegated to mere sub-imperial powers under America's rules-based order.

International trade, financial institutions, defence, even history, popular culture and collective memory are so thoroughly warped in favor of the U.S., that it is arguably pointless to stand against them. None of their subordinates do. The current Turkish administration pretends it does, but doesn't really—not when it begins to hurt their coffers.

The Soviets were perhaps their peer at some point during the cold war, but being more ideologically driven, they inevitably fell. And when they did, those individuals who championed and welcomed the rules-based order packaged, sold and pillaged everything the fledgling federation had. Establishing democracy was never the intention. Those that did the pillaging eventually became the oligarchs* who are simply a less refined version of the reality of America's order: Greed.

A maddening example of the limitations of this rules-based order: the American Service-Members' Protection Act. This law literally gives the U.S. the power to, if necessary, invade the Netherlands if a U.S. Service Member were to be tried at the International Criminal Court in the Hague. Russia: fair game. Israel: absolutely not. What a farce!

I'm not some radical leftist. I don't want to see the current world order fall. Not because I'm happy with it, but rather because I've been conditioned to fear what comes next. What I am, though, is a person woefully aware that the majority of the world, including U.S. citizens, live under an empire that is deceptively comfortable—at least for us lucky few in the upper tiers of Maslow's hierarchy—yet deeply unjust, dehumanizing and destructive. I am also aware that most are powerless to change, let alone stop it.

* "Tut-tut! Let's call them that. They aren't sharing the money with us anymore!" — the State Department

Years ago i remember reading a paper that delved into the actual constitutions of both Germany and Japan it basically showed they were constructed in such a way that these nations were basically vassals to the US. That ultimate final say was always in the Americans hands.

So if the Americans want the Japanese to support the PKK, they will do it and they will fight with us with all their energy to claim its the right thing to do. We are lucky that atomic weapons didnt exist 20 years prior, they would have dropped them on Ataturk and his forces.

 

[moz68k]

Years ago i remember reading a paper that delved into the actual constitutions of both Germany and Japan it basically showed they were constructed in such a way that these nations were basically vassals to the US. That ultimate final say was always in the Americans hands.

So if the Americans want the Japanese to support the PKK, they will do it and they will fight with us with all their energy to claim its the right thing to do. We are lucky that atomic weapons didnt exist 20 years prior, they would have dropped them on Ataturk and his forces.

The reality today, in my view, is even more sinister and hands-off. Japanese policymakers probably aren't getting direct orders from the State Dept. anymore. Their population are so deluded that most begrudgingly accept that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary. When you raise people to believe that, when even Douglas "just nuke China and Korea" MacArthur admitted were unnecessary, you own them.

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1733154799460163924

 

[Afif]

Strong foreign policy move!