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Asena_great

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the collaborators to traitors of America should be handed over to us for trial.
they haven’t done anything to our people so we don't give a fuck however those who did wrong our people, killed our generals in prison as well as 848 intelligent agent are in the US, the Fetullah gulen's tarikat members. how interesting that you don't give a fuck about our people and fetö but you do care about Palestinians and willing to cannon fodder our country and its interest for their sake. hizbut tahrir did a number on you. if you feel that you are part of ummah and not turkish nation why dont you return your citizenship ??
 
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IC3M@N FX

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s400 was typical terrible islamist style politics. They probably thought both russia and the usa is supporting my enemies in sryia, if i buy s400, Russia will show me favours, while the Americans seeing i'm moving towards Russia they will relent on their support for greater middle east. In reality all that happened is that once they went russian they encouraged the americans to screw us, while the russians seeing we lost leverage with the americans bent us over harder. S400 was so dumb, a proper belly dancer style of politics that has been typical of ak party.

However once they booted these loser islamists from f35 and humilated them in front of the entire world, they had to hold course. What they could not do is go back begging the americans. Because by doing that, you basically told them that their strategy to bully and humiliate Islamic civilisation worked. Guess what, they will keep doing it.

Whichever short-sighted moron thought to buy russian shit, had to do so with the full acceptance that this may be the point we never buy american again. But ofcourse these belly dancers didn't think of that. But don't worry an airport or two got built in the southeast so the success cannot be refuted.

Middle east is finished, its just a matter of time when the entire region becomes the new Palestine.
Do you even know what an Islamist is? I am not an absolute fan of AKP and Erdogan but they are definitely not Islamists, otherwise we would already have Afghanistan conditions here.
Also in the AKP/MHP party, women have very high ranks in politics, military, and health care and industry and military industry. This is unimaginable in an Ultra Islamist government.
AKP is an arch conservative party like most Republicans in the USA, but nevertheless I think more of him and his party than the other idiots from CHP, IYI Party or Hüda Par or the undercover terror party DEM.
The AKP/MHP has been in power for more than 20 years, women still don't all wear headscarves, that's a voluntary decision, and they all still wear very short miniskirts if they want to, provided they can bear the oblique looks of horny fools they attract in Turkey.
On the beach most women and no I'm not talking about foreign vacationers but Turkish women also wear thongs and also men and women they still drink in restaurants and Cafés ect.
So we are still a long way from an ultra-Islamic transformation and the broad base of the population doesn't want that either, and AKP/MHP dont want and can't change it either, otherwise they would already have this transformation.

The s400 deal necessary or not Turkey needed long range defense systems, it is not Turkey's fault if they did not get it from the USA. Then one should rather question the partnership attitude of the USA. This eternal mistrust is also just a consequence of several steps and is not completly Türkiyes fault. According to the motto from US Government we don't give you PATRIOTS but you are not allowed to buy other systems either...so one thing leads to another.
The USA thinks the PKK/YPG aka SDF are freedom fighters ok then for us the HAMAS are also freedom fighters the game can also be played in pairs. Using a terrorist organization as a tool for power projection.
 
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Iskander

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Do you even know what an Islamist is? I am not an absolute fan of AKP and Erdogan but they are definitely not Islamists, otherwise we would already have Afghanistan conditions here.
Also in the AKP/MHP party, women have very high ranks in politics, military, and health care and industry and military industry. This is unimaginable in an Ultra Islamist government.
AKP is an arch conservative party like most Republicans in the USA, but nevertheless I think more of him and his party than the other idiots from CHP, IYI Party or Hüda Par or the undercover terror party DEM.
The AKP/MHP has been in power for more than 20 years, women still don't all wear headscarves, that's a voluntary decision, and they all still wear very short miniskirts if they want to, provided they can bear the oblique looks of horny fools they attract in Turkey.
On the beach most women and no I'm not talking about foreign vacationers but Turkish women also wear thongs and also men and women they still drink in restaurants and Cafés ect.
So we are still a long way from an ultra-Islamic transformation and the broad base of the population doesn't want that either, and AKP/MHP dont want and can't change it either, otherwise they would already have this transformation.

The s400 deal necessary or not Turkey needed long range defense systems, it is not Turkey's fault if they did not get it from the USA. Then one should rather question the partnership attitude of the USA. This eternal mistrust is also just a consequence of several steps and is not completly Türkiyes fault. According to the motto from US Government we don't give you PATRIOTS but you are not allowed to buy other systems either...so one thing leads to another.
The USA thinks the PKK/YPG aka SDF are freedom fighters ok then for us the HAMAS are also freedom fighters the game can also be played in pairs. Using a terrorist organization as a tool for power projection.
The AKP is an Islamist party - this cliche was invented in the West. When Erdogan did not object to the West on any issue concerning foreign policy, they praised him; during the "Arab Spring" the West even presented Erdogan's Turkey as an example to Muslim countries. But when Erdogan began to pursue a foreign policy independent from the West, they began to brand him as an Islamist, an authoritarian leader, sometimes even a dictator. Note: the German Christian Democratic Party is not a religious party, but the AKP is religious! Even in Turkey itself, mainly opposition-minded people, following the West (or rather, at the West's prompting), accuse the AKP and Erdogan personally of Islamism. At the same time, none of them apparently think to call the CDU a Christian, religious party.
This is all nonsense.
This is done specifically in order to have a pretext for putting pressure on Turkey if necessary.
 
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Rooxbar

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The AKP is an Islamist party - this cliche was invented in the West. When Erdogan did not object to the West on any issue concerning foreign policy, they praised him; during the "Arab Spring" the West even presented Erdogan's Turkey as an example to Muslim countries. But when Erdogan began to pursue a foreign policy independent from the West, they began to brand him as an Islamist, an authoritarian leader, sometimes even a dictator. Note: the German Christian Democratic Party is not a religious party, but the AKP is religious! Even in Turkey itself, mainly opposition-minded people, following the West (or rather, at the West's prompting), accuse the AKP and Erdogan personally of Islamism. At the same time, none of them apparently think to call the CDU a Christian, religious party.
This is all nonsense.
Christianity and Islam are very different religions with societies which have gone through very divergent evolutionary trajectories. In late 18th century and early 19th century almost all of the West was very religious, but Ottoman thinkers and diplomats who start commenting on European political systems contemporaneously, the likes of Mehmed Emin Efendi, Ebubekir Ratib Efendi, Ibrahim Muteferrika, and later Mustafa Reshid Pasha, Ahmed Cevdet and Namık Kemal point out as a great defect of the European monarchs and their legal systems that it's a godless system and that it's not based on "shariah"; the excessive amounts of cultural products (plays, music, festivities, novels) which, in the face of it, go against all that is Christian but is consumed by some and tolerated by most during those times is also another sign of this difference in society-wide outlook towards religion, religious law, religious text and religious authority.

Islamism is not an abstract concept borne out of a vacuum, the essence of which can be captured in its definition. It has a history and it is through the lens of this history that it's examined. Included in this history is the social classes, the ideals and cultural atmosphere from which its actors originate from, and the capacities that such a group of people has and could have had.

I can imagine a society and a historical trajectory which would have made Islamism a potent, sophisticated, shrewd and rational outlook emanating from a dynamic urban middle class Muslim culture; the world we live in is not that world.

Obviously the West has no problem with AKP's islamism, that's just a tool to propagandize and prime their population and elites to adopt hostile attitudes. If their problem was with Islamism, they wouldn't fund Saudi schools, mujahideen, gulen, akp itself and the green belt.

Our problem with Islamism and AKP, which went hand in hand with the Islamism of its allies in Gulen movement for the bigger part of their rule, is not as Hablemitoglu once said, because of the West but in spite of them, since whenever they have backed Islamists we have opposed them.
 

IC3M@N FX

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I don't think that Christianity and Islam or Judaism are so different from each other because all these religions have the Abrahamic origin.
The problem with Christianity in its present form is, regardless of whether it is the correct doctrine or not.
That it is not followed correctly or generally does not even follow the principles as they should be according to the Bible.
Love your neighbor as yourself, do not covet things that belong to others, etc. Even the classic things like you are not allowed to eat pork meat in Christianity according to the Bible, but still at least 95% of these people do and if you ask very devout Christians why they do not follow their teachings of their own religion correctly, they answer that this rule XY is already outdated and you live in a different time because their books are the copy of the copy of the copy with time it has been changed who knows how many times.
Or even worse, Europeans no longer follow anything, and therefore no teachings or religions.
Even that wouldn't be so bad if they at least had respect for human life regardless of where they come from and what color their skin or religion is.

Islam as practiced today is not innocent either, at least in the ultra orthodox/Islamist form, in some parts of the Islamic world the people are deliberately kept stupid to make it easier for those in power to control the people.
If you consider that Islamic culture, when it is positively controlled, has greatly influenced astronomy, philosophy, mathematics and even medicine in the world and Europe has transferred and improved a large part of these scientific achievements to itself and rediscovered science through the Renaissance, Islam has got stuck somewhere not because the religion itself is or was a dead end but as long as all these sultans, Sheikhs and tribal leaders were in power, they kept their people at the bottom and stupid, not thinking or questioning and exploring, instead of improving and developing humanity, it has regressed and religion is certainly not to blame for this but the rulers who perverted or bent these rules to suit them. or bent them to suit them.
I say God wants humanity to evolve and the destiny of humanity is to reach for the stars and explore other worlds and colonize them.
 

GoatsMilk

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The AKP is an Islamist party - this cliche was invented in the West. When Erdogan did not object to the West on any issue concerning foreign policy, they praised him; during the "Arab Spring" the West even presented Erdogan's Turkey as an example to Muslim countries. But when Erdogan began to pursue a foreign policy independent from the West, they began to brand him as an Islamist, an authoritarian leader, sometimes even a dictator. Note: the German Christian Democratic Party is not a religious party, but the AKP is religious! Even in Turkey itself, mainly opposition-minded people, following the West (or rather, at the West's prompting), accuse the AKP and Erdogan personally of Islamism. At the same time, none of them apparently think to call the CDU a Christian, religious party.
This is all nonsense.
This is done specifically in order to have a pretext for putting pressure on Turkey if necessary.

Islamism today is mostly a major tool used by the enemies of Islam to undermine, control and if required destroy Muslim majority societies. AK party along with their FETO buddies are the very definition of Islamists. If you pay attention, one their hallmarks is turning the nation in on itself. This has taken place in Turkiye where incrementally they attack everything Turkish, while they promote everything against Turkish interests like the heavy promotion of Kurdish nationalism/terrorism. Patriots like the various soldiers are thrown in jail, meanwhile PKK, Islamist terrorists any shithead whose against Turkishness can roam freely within the state. Just like in Europe now, if your against Turkiye all the doors will open to you. Defend Turkiye and the system will isolate you.

Let me focus on FETO as just one example of the western(euro-origin) poison that is "political Islam" or rather just Islamists. For years I used to argue with people that these guys are traitors, enemies of the republic, enemies of the Turkish race and above all enemies of Islam. Their media like daily zaman would even run with articles telling Turks we should come to terms with the unproven and one sided allegations of genocides we supposedly committed on the armenians, kurds, greeks, assyrians, whatever minority they could come up with. It would hide behind Islam, it would divert Muslims by claiming it wasn't the Ottomans it was the western Young Turks and Ataturk. And as good Muslims we must come to terms with their pain and condemn the "Nationalist Turks, the secularists". Just like the kurdish islamist uprising against Ataturk was instigated by the British, these traitors are turned into national heroes.

When I say destroy that is not hyperbolic the accusations of genocides and atrocities is used to delegitimise Turkish sovereignty while legitimising the territorial expansionist aims of our neighbours. Today when you hit the PKK the entire international news spectrum says your killing "Kurds" to imply the Turkish states war against Kurds. Every single avenue does this now, despite the millions of islamists out there, we see no efforts anywhere from them to defend the Turkish position.

The common Muslim was brainwashed to believe that "political islamists" were his friends and allies, meanwhile actual Turks, patriots were enemies of Islam and by extension them. I don't want repeat all the details.

Anyway fast forward and the western backed and financed political islamists have a split, overnight those same FETO terrorists, so called Muslims, so called pushing for the revival of an Islamic state, the Ummah boys, become the most openly hostile entity on earth against Turkiye. They become the most ardent propogandists of accusing Turkiye of turning into an islamo-fascist state that murders its minorities. When they had the nation fooled they were the good pious muslims working towards neo-Ottomanism. They were all about Islam and Muslims, in reality they were the greatest danger and threat to Muslims.

Islamists and Political Islam is being used to destroy not just Turkiye but the entire region. As for the Kurds, the plan is to separate them and then eventually the euro-origin power will move in and destroy them the same way the Palestinians are being destroyed today. The Turkish state is being destroyed and political islam has been the biggest reason for that, your all fooling yourselves if you think ceeding autonomy, opening the nation to millions of refugees, while undermining everything Turkish is going to lead to a strong nation. Your being set up for the complete destruction of the state. I give it 50 years max. Minorities would do well to learn from history once the Turks lost the strength to keep the white man out. And remember while they promote the PKK and Kurds against Turkiye, when it came to Kurds crossing the border in Poland it turned into protecting Europe's borders and keeping the evil brown savage out.

As a Muslim first and a Turk second, "Political Islam" is the greatest threat facing my people. Its the greatest threat facing Islamic civilisation and why is that? Because nearly all serious political islamist organisations are western created and ran. But it makes sense if im american and i want to screw muslims, im going to give them Muslim/Islamist leaders. Thats how the game works, they deceive you according to what you believe.
 
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GoatsMilk

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The s400 deal necessary or not Turkey needed long range defense systems, it is not Turkey's fault if they did not get it from the USA. Then one should rather question the partnership attitude of the USA. This eternal mistrust is also just a consequence of several steps and is not completly Türkiyes fault. According to the motto from US Government we don't give you PATRIOTS but you are not allowed to buy other systems either...so one thing leads to another.
The USA thinks the PKK/YPG aka SDF are freedom fighters ok then for us the HAMAS are also freedom fighters the game can also be played in pairs. Using a terrorist organization as a tool for power projection.

The game has always been imperialism, nations win and nations lose. Anther posters said it before, there is only winners and losers. The Ottomans kept losing and they were ultimately destroyed, in fact nearly the entire islamic world was conquered by non-muslims. All nations will screw Turkiye if you play the game badly.

The issue isn't about seeing Americans as good guys or friends, no. They are the single greatest threat facing Turkiye and have been for a long time. But that's the nature of the game, in reality they are a threat to most of the world and if you play the game badly they will destroy you.

The s400 was dumb, the outcome was lose lose. You gained nothing from Russia, in fact shortly after they bombed/murdered our troops and told the entire country in essence to go f'k itself. Then the Americans used s400 to kick your ass out the f35 only for the same AK party to go running back for f16's. Now don't get it twisted they are always looking for excuses/reasons to screw us, but its not our job to give them reasons. Our job is to move in a way that limits the damage they can cause to us while trying to benefit us as much as possible from the relationship of having economic, technological, political ties to the USA.

As for the USA they are a super power, a continent sized country with a 28trillion dollar economy. They have a population of 350 million and hundreds of bases across the entire globe. Your fooling yourself if you think supporting losers like hamas is a counterweight for them supporting the PKK. While Erdogan's support for Hamas will amount to nothing, no gains, no successes, it opened the door for the Americans to further delegitimise us internationally and justify further support for the PKK. Its a bit like the vampire at the door, yeah he wants to harm you but you got to invite him in first. When you make dumb decisions you invite trouble.

Looking at the last 20 years, if a hundred land mines were placed in front of Turkiye AK party walked over 95 of them, then to counter the failure they placed their own landmines and then ended up walking over them too.
 
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Kartal1

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Mashallah ya Batal! Mashallah ya ikhwani! Al mawt li Israil, al mawt li Amrika, al la'nat ala al yahud, An nasr ul-Islam! Lilililililililil

Ya ikhwani, look at this incredible job mashallah! The arrow of anger launched by our Mujahedeen (JazakAllahu khair) struck the disbelievers in the heart. The boat of shaytan (LanatAllahi aleyh) will sink inshallah and our ikhwan in Yemen will free us from the occupation of the kafireen and their hand will be broken bi idhnillah!

Yaaaa Turks! Yaaa balad al murtadeen! Who are you to do business and prosper!??! Who are you to drive the ships of apostacy trough our seas?!?!!?


In another world we would've been responding right now, but we are busy simping to Hamas.
 

IC3M@N FX

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I have a question that is OT and of course absolute fiction but do you think there is some kind of safeguard in a direct nuclear war when all 3 superpowers are going crazy and can no longer control the escalation because everyone takes the next step and leads to the next level of escalation.
That there is something like a hedge that resets this state.

For example, if you are on the verge of a nuclear war.

Such a scenario, in which the US, Russia and China have installed some sort of secret emergency system or protocol to stop war in the event of an inevitable nuclear conflict through a coordinated coup by their respective rulers, would be highly unusual, but not entirely unthinkable. Here are some thoughts on this:

1. possible existence of an emergency protocol

Omega directive or "deadlock agreement":
A protocol of this type could hypothetically exist between the three superpowers based on the mutual realization that nuclear war would be catastrophic for all involved. Such a directive could have been agreed through secret channels to create a final rescue mechanism.

Key elements of the protocol:

Automatic activation: in the event of an imminent nuclear attack on a global scale, the protocol would kick in.

Coordinated stop: All three countries could force a synchronized coup of power to eliminate the potential for escalation.

A "reset" system: Those in charge could be replaced by transitional governments or technocratic groups with the sole aim of restoring peace.

2. realistic implementation

Silent power structures:
Such a system would have to be deeply embedded in the military or intelligence apparatuses of the three countries, independent of the respective rulers. There could be groups in the intelligence services (e.g. CIA, FSB, MSS) involved in such an arrangement.

Backchannels and communication:
This type of cooperation would run through discreet channels that are not always known even to senior policy makers. These channels could be maintained by Cold War veterans or specialized security groups.

Collusion among generals:
In all three states, there could be collusion among high-ranking military officers to prevent a global Armageddon. These generals would be pragmatic actors who understand the long-term consequences of all-out war.

3. challenges of such a system

Mistrust between the superpowers:
Russia, China and the US historically have a deep mistrust of each other. The assumption that they could agree on such a joint protocol is optimistic, though not impossible.

Risk of a power vacuum:
A coup against those in power could create a dangerous power vacuum, especially in authoritarian regimes such as Russia or China. In the USA, this could lead to constitutional chaos.

Sabotage and internal conflicts:
Not all actors within the three countries would agree with such a plan. Radical elements could try to prevent the coup or exacerbate the situation.

Technological escalations:
Even if such a coup were successful, automated weapons systems or AI-driven nuclear programs could escalate further, regardless of human intervention.

4. historical precedents and inspiration

Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD):
During the Cold War, strategy was based on the premise that no country would launch a nuclear attack, as this guaranteed mutual destruction. A secret emergency protocol could emerge as a logical development of this principle.

Able Archer 83:
During this NATO exercise, the Soviet Union believed a real attack was underway and covert communication channels were needed to stop the escalation. Such events may have led to considerations for an Omega Protocol.

The fear of "uncontrollables":
In authoritarian regimes such as Russia or China, there may be a concern that an individual leader is acting irrationally. Such a protocol could serve as an internal safeguard.

5. fictitious or speculative models

This concept is strongly reminiscent of scenarios from science fiction or geopolitical novels:

"Fail-Safe" (1964): a movie in which a nuclear conflict is only prevented by drastic measures.

Secret "government overthrows": Stories about shadow governments or "deep state" organizations coordinating across national borders.

6. conclusion

Such a system would be extremely secret and would require the cooperation of the deepest power structures in the three superpowers. The idea of an "Omega Protocol" or coordinated coup is intriguing and would require all parties involved to place an overarching, global responsibility above their national interests. It is difficult to say whether such a system actually exists, but it is not entirely implausible that high-ranking actors in the intelligence services or military are thinking about this possibility.

Why I am thinking about this is because the Chinese may have cut the telecommunications cable between Europe and Finland or damaged maybe a preparation for an invasion from Russia....?
In Ukraine in Kiev a massive attack on the capital is expected, the US embassy has already been closed in Kiev.
Of course it is unlikely that these scenarios will happen but it also made me wonder how escalation levels could go on and on.
 
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Mis_TR_Like

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On Turkish MFA's post about the attack on a Turkish ship there were countless people celebrating... of course the usual suspects (Islamists).

These people have lost the plot since the Israel-Hamas war started. They've been frothing at the mouth at everything opportunity, trying to damage Turkish-Azerbaijani ties, attacking businesses and now even celebrating an attack on a Turkish ship all for the sake of their agenda.
 

Anastasius

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I legitimately don't see any reason why Turkey SHOULDN'T hand over every single Hamas member and their property to the US (and try to bargain for some extra goodies in the process). Turkey wins literally nothing by providing a safe haven to these guys.
 

IC3M@N FX

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I legitimately don't see any reason why Turkey SHOULDN'T hand over every single Hamas member and their property to the US (and try to bargain for some extra goodies in the process). Turkey wins literally nothing by providing a safe haven to these guys.
It is also of no use to the USA to hold on to the PKK/YPG, which has long since crushed ISIS - there is no immediate threat and there hasn't been for a long time.
Nevertheless, this force is the extended tool of the USA in Syria and Iraq....
 

Anastasius

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It is also of no use to the USA to hold on to the PKK/YPG, which has long since crushed ISIS - there is no immediate threat and there hasn't been for a long time.
Nevertheless, this force is the extended tool of the USA in Syria and Iraq....
If the US is doing something stupid that doesn’t mean Turks should follow suit.
 

Dennixtoue

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I legitimately don't see any reason why Turkey SHOULDN'T hand over every single Hamas member and their property to the US (and try to bargain for some extra goodies in the process). Turkey wins literally nothing by providing a safe haven to these guys.
with all due respect why you believe the people of Türkiye will buy into this regurgitating a political bargain sellout to 'wish' get some extra goodies
 

Anastasius

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with all due respect why you believe the people of Türkiye will buy into this regurgitating a political bargain sellout to 'wish' get some extra goodies
Turkiye wins by giving up Hamas members either way. Either you hand them over and get extra concessions out of it or you don’t get anything but either way, Hamas is gone and not able to undermine Turkiye from within.
 

Iskander

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I legitimately don't see any reason why Turkey SHOULDN'T hand over every single Hamas member and their property to the US (and try to bargain for some extra goodies in the process). Turkey wins literally nothing by providing a safe haven to these guys.
Erdogan presents AK Rarti as a defender of the rights of the oppressed all over the world. And you suggest that Türkiye should catch these same oppressed people all over the world and hand them over to the American «imperialists»? :)
 
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"NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte is due to visit Turkiye on Monday Will meet President Erdoğan, plus FM Fidan + DM Güler. Also notably will visit Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) in Ankara, the scene of the PKK attack last month.... Also notably he will then be in Greece the day after, where he'll meet the Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and Defence Minister."

 
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