TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[Sanchez]

Then why do fighter pilots train with light jets instead of real fighters in their squadrons?
I am sure next gen jet trainers will be stealth.

To lower the costs and to mainly give them a platform that is more forgiving than high performance combat aircraft.

Hürjet and T-7 are next gen trainers. There's no realistic reason to make a trainer jet harder to control, which is what you will achieve with a stealthy body design.

Because trainers are designed for that purpose, to train with. An F-16 isn't, nor is Kaan. Making a trainer stealthy is just a waste of resources.

Another thought. With the Hürjet becoming active and replacing the ancient T-38s, and with Hürjet being much closer in feel, performance and avionics to F-16 and Kaan, could we maybe cut the number of F-16Ds used for conversion training? And put them through a Sufa like mod package through Özgür-3 to make them deep strike and SEAD monsters? Just a nice thought...

 

[Quasar]

if or When Hürjet as a light attack aircraft happens ''under normal circumtances'' what comes with Hürjet will be modern avionics + AESA radar + wvR missiles+ BVR missiles + almost all Turkish Air to ground ammunitions.... HGK+KGK+minature bomb + even possibly SOM J + ÇAKIR+ KUZGUN.... in export markets HÜRJET is an attractive plane yet a full package HÜRJET is a flash royal in it's class. sometimes it is not just the plane but what comes with it....

and yes ENGINE

Damn be realistic man we are talking about a light attack aircraft please make some sense

 

[Quasar]

Damn be realistic man we are talking about a light attack aircraft please make some sense

shut up and ı forgot to add TRG 230 we will use it on our future AC so what are you planing to arm it with stones and sticks?

 

[YeşilVatan]

shut up and ı forgot to add TRG 230 we will use it on our future AC so what are you planing to arm it with stones and sticks?

Why don't we strap some ottoman cannons for good measure. Weight is not a problem appearently.

 

[UkroTurk]

Really why do air forces still need a trainer jet since most of forum members decided there is no place for manned aircrafts?

BTW f-35/f-22 without trained pilots aren't factory stealth.



I have met a lot of clever members for 10 years."he who laughs last laughs longest"

EDIT: peace

 

[Quasar]

Really why do air forces still need a trainer jet since most of forum members decided there is no place for manned aircrafts?

BTW f-35/f-22 without trained pilots aren't factory stealth.



I have met a lot of clever members for 10 years."he who laughs last laughs longest"

Don’t take things personal bro it is late and people may act a bit different in Internet forms… I don’t think anyone has any bad intention. On subject may be instead of a stealth trainer a trainer which may simulate the basics of jet flight and a stealth mission is more economical….and for your young pilots instead of a delicate stealth trainer a kind of work horse and easy to fly trainer is a wiser choice sure this is my opinion

 

[UkroTurk]

How much does stealth fuselage increase cost of Trainer jet? I am not talking about B2's material, i mean, cost of enter level of low RCS material.

 

[boredaf]

How much does stealth fuselage increase cost of Trainer jet? I am not talking about B2's material, i mean, cost of enter level of low RCS material.

Mate, Hürjet is for training pilots before they start flying proper fighters, just as Hürkuş is for people who needs to learn to fly the first time. These planes have to be simple and reliable enough for people to learn to fly, that is their first and foremost purpose. Despite having all the money in the world USAF, for example, still have turboprop trainers (naturally, they are the basic trainers after all) and T-38s and their replacement for T-38 is T-7 which is still an ordinary advanced trainer just like Hürjet.

And, how stealthy a plane is have very little to do with the pilot. It is about its geometrical shape, the materials it was made from and coated with (not just RAM paint but even how well it blends in with background), its sensors, how much heat it gives out, even how loud it is.

Sure, there are differences between flying an F-16 and F-35, but those are because of the difference between two planes. And a pilot who has gone through training and ready to fly an F-35 learns the how to fly that plane, on that plane. A stealthy trainer wouldn't help the pilot.

 

[Quasar]

The question is what purpose it will serve.


The Purpose of a jet trainer is to improve your young pilots' abilities to operate jet aircraft and to provide them with the necessary skills before moving on to real fighter aircraft.


A funy analogy can be before getting your driver license, you practice with a car provided by driving school, under watchfull eyes of an instructor. You don't need a fancy car for that purpose


-Most probably what you you expect from your jet trainer is:

-high availability rates

-higher tolerances

 

[Zoth]

Then why do fighter pilots train with light jets instead of real fighters in their squadrons?
I am sure next gen jet trainers will be stealth.

Trainer Jets are to teach the pilot all the avionics and the operation systems of similar systems that is also used in more advanced fighter jets. That's the most important part of them. Your trainer jet doesn't need to be stealthy. Because it would add nothing to it. All the stealth training operations are made with real stealth jets, later on, with more experienced pilots anyways.

 

[Zafer]

The next step would be to make a trainer jet unmanned.

You can achieve all of these with a training mode on a modern aircraft. No teacher pilot on board with only the trainee flying means an unmanned trainer. You can ask a newer plane to act as a lesser airplane for training purposes. In today's world where we are just transitioning into a plane making nation we still don't have everything we need at hand but in the future when we have Kaan in inventory or when we have Hürjet in LCA version we can possibly do training on the final aircraft rather than on a separate trainer. Smaller planes will probably become products to use for users who can not afford full capability planes.

 

[uçuyorum]

Stealth increases the cost very significantly, both initially and for maintenance. Trainers are optimized for their original purpose.

 

[Sanchez]

You can achieve all of these with a training mode on a modern aircraft. No teacher pilot on board with only the trainee flying means an unmanned trainer. You can ask a newer plane to act as a lesser airplane for training purposes. In today's world where we are just transitioning into a plane making nation we still don't have everything we need at hand but in the future when we have Kaan in inventory or when we have Hürjet in LCA version we can possibly do training on the final aircraft rather than on a separate trainer. Smaller planes will probably become products to use for users who can not afford full capability planes.

We already do training on "final" aircraft. That's what F-16Ds are mostly used for.

Please have a read on initial training made on simple Cessnas, basic training done on KT-1s, advanced training done on simple configuration advanced trainers, LIFT training done on complex configuration advanced trainers like the Hürjet, and the conversion training done on usually two seat fighter aircraft like F-16Ds. As new generation aircraft usually don't have two seat versions, air forces now want the LIFT trainers to be as much as possibly closer to "final" aircraft. That's why we can talk about turning advanced trainers to fighter aircraft or LCAs, because they are already much closer to fighter aircraft than their brethren were in the last 30-40 years. This is not only about performance but also much more about avionics.

 

[UkroTurk]

To be honest, i didn't know we had a lot of aviation enginers, otherwise noone could have made sharp different assumptions.


You yourself acknowleged , the stealth fighters have different geometry and shape which change the characteristics of flight.

How could tolerate -twin engined huge bird such as KAAN -mistakes of freshmen?

On the other , stealth trainer jet will enable you produce next gen stealth light fighter/attack jet! ( Hürjet project)

Even you could use this platform unmanned/ semi autonomous.


Regarding cost, there are different level of stealthiness. B2, F-22 and f-35 have different materials.

 

[Zafer]

We already do training on "final" aircraft. That's what F-16Ds are mostly used for.

Please have a read on initial training made on simple Cessnas, basic training done on KT-1s, advanced training done on simple configuration advanced trainers, LIFT training done on complex configuration advanced trainers like the Hürjet, and the conversion training done on usually two seat fighter aircraft like F-16Ds. As new generation aircraft usually don't have two seat versions, air forces now want the LIFT trainers to be as much as possibly closer to "final" aircraft. That's why we can talk about turning advanced trainers to fighter aircraft or LCAs, because they are already much closer to fighter aircraft than their brethren were in the last 30-40 years. This is not only about performance but also much more about avionics.

I am talking about a highly automated plane training the trainee, like when Kaan can fly itself it can fly the trainee alone, eliminating the need for a separate jet trainer.

 

[Zoth]

To be honest, i didn't know we had a lot of aviation enginers, otherwise noone could have made sharp different assumptions.


You yourself acknowleged , the stealth fighters have different geometry and shape which change the characteristics of flight.

How could tolerate -twin engined huge bird such as KAAN -mistakes of freshmen?

On the other , stealth trainer jet will enable you produce next gen stealth light fighter/attack jet! ( Hürjet project)

Even you could use this platform unmanned/ semi autonomous.


Regarding cost, there are different level of stealthiness. B2, F-22 and f-35 have different materials.

I am talking about a highly automated plane training the trainee, like when Kaan can fly itself it can fly the trainee alone, eliminating the need for a separate jet trainer.

You simply don't train newbies with stealth aircraft because the 2 most important parts of stealth jets are their coating and engines, those 2 costs so much to operate.

Whether you learn the avionics and control systems of F35 in a Trainer Jet or in a simulation or actually in F35 makes no difference, it's all about cost effectiveness.

You are asking to train a person who learns how to drive a car in a 1000hp car instead of starting with something small and less powerful.

 

[Zafer]

You simply don't train newbies with stealth aircraft because the 2 most important parts of stealth jets are their coating and engines, those 2 costs so much to operate.

Whether you learn the avionics and control systems of F35 in a Trainer Jet or in a simulation or actually in F35 makes no difference, it's all about cost effectiveness.

You are asking to train a person who learns how to drive a car in a 1000hp car instead of starting with something small and less powerful.

That saves you from developing or buying separate planes for training. Combined with the fact that simulators can play a big role in training and the fact that national planes comes cheaper than imported ones when they are made in big numbers. And planes having smarts to not put the plane in dangerous situations I am saying why not. This can shorten the time required for pilot training by a lot.

 

[Sanchez]

That saves you from developing or buying separate planes for training. Combined with the fact that simulators can play a big role in training and the fact that national planes comes cheaper than imported ones when they are made in big numbers. And planes having smarts to not put the plane in dangerous situations I am saying why not. This can shorten the time required for pilot training by a lot.

Not with the flighthours training squadrons incur over time. They start sorties in early morning, fly until 4-5. spend a day close to Çiğli, you'll see at least 50-70 sorties a day every weekday, KT-1s and T-38s. Combat squadrons don't make one third of the sorties training squadrons make. No wonder 121's mascot is a bee, they are truly like working bees. If we ran the combat aircraft with similar sortie numbers, they'd reach their airframe limits within a few years.

 

[Zafer]

Not with the flighthours training squadrons incur over time. They start sorties in early morning, fly until 4-5. spend a day close to Çiğli, you'll see at least 50-70 sorties a day every weekday, KT-1s and T-38s. Combat squadrons don't make one third of the sorties training squadrons make. No wonder 121's mascot is a bee, they are truly like working bees. If we ran the combat aircraft with similar sortie numbers, they'd reach their airframe limits within a few years.

You can invest more on the one platform you have and take every pilot and every engineer in to top shape and the plane itself with continuous development rather than losing time with special training planes and you are better off. I know it hasn't been like this so far, I can tell you that as I have my earliest picture taken with a cadet trainer decades ago but the future may be different. You will have a much larger pool of candidates to choose pilots from as planes come with simplified operation interfaces that are way easier to command and master. A smart plane may also be requiring lesser hours to train with to get into top shape. Dog fighting is to become a thing of the past too. There is a similar situation in the civilian aviation too, simplified operations until planes become fully uncrewed.

 

[Zafer]

This is the primary reason why separate training aircraft are a thing, airframe hours. Nobody wants to eat up precious airframe hours of big, prime combat jets.

The fact that people don't know such a basic thing and yet freely think they figured a solution the world hasnt is kinda crazy.

What is holding you from adding hours to a plane's life, it is your plane that you have made.