TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[YeşilVatan]

What is holding you from adding hours to a plane's life, it is your plane that you have made.

Financial and material limitations exist. Please stop trying to ignore them.

 

[Zafer]

Financial and material limitations exist. Please stop trying to ignore them.

You can afford that much, it is scientific development after all and can pay off greatly. It is the best investment you can invest your money in and remember how we have already progressed in that field within a short few years. You can of course add more life to a plane by simply doing parts replacement as well.

 

[Sanchez]

You can afford that much, it is scientific development after all and can pay off greatly. It is the best investment you can invest your money in and remember how we have already progressed in that field within a short few years. You can of course add more life to a plane by simply doing parts replacement as well.

Serial production is not scientific development, it's serial production. Kaan's flyaway cost will not be below 70-80 million dollars. It's lifecycle cost will at least be double if not triple that. Simple example, Canada will pay 19 billion(CAD) for acquisition of 88 F-35s, and another 53 billion for operations and sustainment over the type's lifecycle per the Canadian Parliament.

This is the gist of the issue, and even with adding a whole new type of aircraft, in the end you lower the overall costs by decreasing the number of sorties you make with your prime fighters. And to increase capability, you make your advanced trainer as close to the real thing while still keeping the costs down, and also try to export it and its armed variant for smaller countries. In the end it's win-win-win.

 

[Zafer]

Stealth increases the cost very significantly, both initially and for maintenance. Trainers are optimized for their original purpose.

You can use a non coated version of Kaan, can't you.

 

[Zafer]

Serial production is not scientific development, it's serial production.

Of course not but serial improvement of everything about it is.

 

[Zafer]

In training mode you decrease the wear and tear on the plane by limiting its high performance features.

You also need to train pilots quickly at times of pilot shortage, like we see in Ukraine.

 

[begturan]

is there any project which will involve powering Hurjet aircraft ? i think we have to develop approx 20 K lbf or we can use twin TF10000 but priority is very important because of limited time. On the other hand, we need to develop the engine of the Kaan....

TF6000/10000 for Anka3 and Kizilelma, TF35000 for Kaan. all three birds are very important projects but also Hurjet is very potantial because of low cost which attracts considerable attention in allied countries...

TEI engineers and management are under a very heavy load, I hope they will sort out these issues....

 

[Nutuk]

TEI was hinting on a surprise for IDEF 2025 but that can be TF10000. Hopefully they also work on a TF20000 (just my personal hope, no anything substantial)

 

[boredaf]

TEI was hinting on a surprise for IDEF 2025 but that can be TF10000. Hopefully they also work on a TF20000 (just my personal hope, no anything substantial)

I hope not, I wouldn't want TEI to spare a single engineer to work on anything else other than TF6/10K and TF35K. That is more than enough and projects they will power are far more important than Hürjet.

 

[Radonsider]

TEI was hinting on a surprise for IDEF 2025 but that can be TF10000. Hopefully they also work on a TF20000 (just my personal hope, no anything substantial)

That surprise is probably the mockup of TF-35k engine

 

[Nutuk]

That surprise is probably the mockup of TF-35k engine

Yes, sounds likely.

Though TF-35k is officially not from TEI but TRmotor, that's why my hope would be TF-20000

 

[Spitfire9]

I hope not, I wouldn't want TEI to spare a single engineer to work on anything else other than TF6/10K and TF35K. That is more than enough and projects they will power are far more important than Hürjet.

If an alternative to a US engine is desired for Hurjet, there are 2 potential substitutes in the pipeline

- the Indian Kaveri engine (probably producing around 75kN thrust), available possibly 2030 onwards

- the proposed ROK engine (aimed at producing similar thrust to the 98kN GE F414) available possibly around 2035

IMO Indian development is slow, haphazard and underfinanced. My info from Indian online sources is that India may opt to produce a 3000 hrs life engine because a higher quality engine would arrive too late for use in the Tejas Mk1A. Ongoing development could, however, result in a viable engine at some point in the 2030's.

 

[boredaf]

If an alternative to a US engine is desired for Hurjet, there are 2 potential substitutes in the pipeline

- the Indian Kaveri engine (probably producing around 75kN thrust), available possibly 2030 onwards

- the proposed ROK engine (aimed at producing similar thrust to the 98kN GE F414) available possibly around 2035

IMO Indian development is slow, haphazard and underfinanced. My info from Indian online sources is that India may opt to produce a 3000 hrs life engine because a higher quality engine would arrive too late for use in the Tejas Mk1A. Ongoing development could, however, result in a viable engine at some point in the 2030's.

I don't think an alternative engine would be needed until (or unless) someone decided to order the light attack configuration.

And you can scratch the Indian engine from that list, not only because I personally don't believe they'll produce an engine at a relevant timetable, but also they would never sell to us because of our relationship with Pakistan.

 

[Saithan]

So if turboprop airframes are good enough for training, wouldn't it be great if we had lots of Hürkus in our inventory. I'd of course prefer with domestic engine... How many did TSK order ?

 

[boredaf]

So if turboprop airframes are good enough for training, wouldn't it be great if we had lots of Hürkus in our inventory. I'd of course prefer with domestic engine... How many did TSK order ?

Basic training, as in teaching people how to fly the first time, not advanced training like Hürjet could provide. They have very different roles mate.

 

[Sanchez]

Basic training, as in teaching people how to fly the first time, not advanced training like Hürjet could provide. They have very different roles mate.

Yes, but Hürkuş is expected to fill some roles that were in the past reserved for T-38. It is a high performance prop trainer. To clarify, "basic training" is not teaching cades to fly for the first time. That's done on gliders and piston engined trainers like Da-20, T-41, SF.260 and more recently the Super Mushshak. These are basic trainers. While aircraft like the KT-1 and Hürkuş are "advanced basic trainers", these aircraft mimic some performance of the jet aircraft and more importantly the avionics the cades will use in the future. There's a bit of overlap by design to make conversion easier.

edit. To add, we are forgetting the much older T-37s. These were low power jet trainers and were the link between ab initio trainers like SF.260 and advanced jet trainers like T-38 in the past. This type of aircraft(T-37, Saab 105, Jet Provost, Tutor etc.) is now almost totally replaced by high performance single turboprop basic trainers as well, mainly because turboprops are much cheaper to run and maintain. KT-1s fully replaced the Turkish T-37s almost 1 to 1.

 

[Saithan]

I never managed to send my reply, but I remember reading here, recently that the trainer platforms should be as close to the platform they're going to be flying so the transition is easier.

And like Sanchez said, I as also thought the Hürkus was going to be used more often, hence why we have had KT-1 in the past, and if that is so, we should have equivalent numbers in Hürkus (but I'd prefer a lot more, like 50-80 Hürkus and use our own turboprop motor and not PT6 or whatever it is called). Those Hürkus can be gifted to someone else in the future, so no need to hold back.

 

[Sanchez]

Spain's ambassador to Turkey visited TAI today and sat on the Hürjet prototype.

That SASF livery Hürjet model looks beautiful even if the nationalist cross is a bit large compared to other Spanish aircraft.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1846931911756628090

 

[boredaf]

Spain's ambassador to Turkey visited TAI today and sat on the Hürjet prototype.

That SASF livery Hürjet model looks beautiful even if the nationalist cross is a bit large compared to other Spanish aircraft.

View attachment 71260

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1846931911756628090

I really hope this deal goes through, it'll be great for TAI and Hürjet, and for us if the talk about A400M's are true. Win-win all around.

Also, I just realised I've gotten used to seeing Hürjet in red and white, it looked weird for a second there

 

[Ripley]

That SASF livery Hürjet model looks beautiful even if the nationalist cross is a bit large compared to other Spanish aircraft.

Also, I just realised I've gotten used to seeing Hürjet in red and white, it looked weird for a second there

A CGI rendered grey tone Hürjet with Spanish roundeI and insignia would look cool at this thread.
i don’t know. If only we had couple of image specialist among our members!?

@Boz , @Kaan Azman … wink wink