TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[IC3M@N FX]

I don't know what other arguments to give you, half of Europe and the USA don't see the country as a partner but as a competitor.

They don't want to supply high technology by any means because they know Turkey will not only use these systems to defend their hard & soft power in their region and also outside.
They will do 100% reverse engineering to get knowledge about new systems and their hard & software from USA & Europe to improve and speed up their own systems.
The Russians and Chinese would jerk off live in front of the camera if they were given such access.

The Eurofighter Tranche 3/4 is one of the best and most modern fighter aircraft in the world it is comparable to the F-15 Super Eagle of the USA.
It doesn't matter if it has stealth or not, half the world doesn't even have stealth fighters and it's not going to change much in the next 20 years.

This is a win to win situation for Turkey because 40 Eurofighters are no leverage for Europe which in turn makes Turkey appear totally uncapable of acting if these Eurofighters would be sanctioned by the Eurofighter consortium e.g. with the refusal of spare parts and ammunition because Turkey does strategically & politically what they do not like.
Turkey has always been very resourceful when it comes to spare parts and modification of systems they would find a way to keep the Eurofighters operational and they know that.

The real problem is in sight of USA & Co when Turkey is able to develop weapons systems that really have a significant capability, even in the opinion of the Western states, and then export them to Pakistan and other countries, for example.
Then an era of war by the USA & Co. in the Middle East etc. on country XY ends. Because war is their business.
Then war becomes very expensive for the USA because the opponent may have weapons systems of NATO standard/quality, in the USA wars run together with public opinion, nobody gives a shit if a country at the other end of the world is bombed into the Stone Age, but everything tips over if too many US soldiers bite the dust then you have the same situation as in Vietnam.

 

[selim]

Please do not confuse the development environment with its tools for creating an operating system and its programs with the operating system itself.

The operating systems of KAAN & Hürjet are Turkish, if you can call them that.
The SDK is not and without SDK there is no operating system and software quite simply.
Temel Kotil himself has confirmed that the development environment of the software development and operating system comes from Dassault.

From CHAT GPT Paid Version

The software environment and the software development kit (SDK) for the operating system and software of the TAI KAAN fighter aircraft are provided by Dassault Systèmes. In January 2017, it was announced that Dassault Systèmes would be the software partner for the development of the prototype. In addition, the development was facilitated by the use of a "digital twin" on Dassault Systèmes' 3D Experience platform.

Please link Kotil's statement that KAAN's software is Dassault.

What Dassault may have provided Turkey is some fancy graphical frontend where you first of all click and then "try, simulate, get error, retry". Basically where the software tells you that sequence of clicks is possible, but your last click was bullshit.
Some Dassault engineers defined what's possible and what is not.
Every software follows user defined logic and you can make a supercomputer adopt that logic without a graphical frontend not requiring a human clicking, trying, getting error, trying again.
You can make the supercomputer do all that and output its calculations in the file format you need.
That's the future.

What operation system Bayraktar, Çelik Kubbe, MILGEM, Advent etc. are using according to your opinion ? Maybe not as complex as KAAN but still complex.

​

 

[dBSPL]

Single seated hurjet with a bigger Radome, more fuel+payload as light combat aircraft. It would be an excellent quality choice for air forces that can't afford traditional expensive 4.5th gen fighter in numbers. (Usually costing $150-200 millions each)

I think KAI's development of a single-seat variant for the FA-50 is also ongoing, not canceled. Of course, I'm not sure how reliable the internet sources are, my assurance is wikipedia (lol). Still, there is no reason why they shouldn't continue, they can further improve the range and payload capacity of the aircraft by lightening the canopy.

If my memory serves me right, the former TAI GM Kotil stated in one of his television interviews that the first prototype would not be the final aircraft in terms of structural qualities, that the aircraft would be lighter in production and that its maximum lift capacity would be increased in combatant variant without compromising range and maximum speed. In addition to structural improvements, a series of avionic improvements, perhaps planned as a few blocks, would also accompany this. Since we already have a KAI example working with the same series engine in FA-50, it would be a realistic approach to estimate that the payload capacity of the light attack variant of the Hürjet could be close to 4 tons or at least over 3,5.

For example, it could be a highly capable jet that could carry two 300/370 gal nato standard drop tanks on the inner pylons and 2 medium range cruise missiles or 8 SDBs on the outer pylons, and that it could carry two A-A missiles on the wingtips and an IRST or EW mission pod under the fuselage, as well as packed with a highly efficient AESA radar. In any case, it is not the kind of long-range air-interdiction that one would expect from much larger and powerfull aircrafts, but it can reach a flight radius of approximately 1500 km with drop tanks, reach a maximum lifting capacity of around 3.5-4 tons with the developments to be made, and thanks to its qualified avionics equipment and capabilities, it can provide a cost-effective solution in many air forces of the world, including some Strike and CAP type missions.

Nevertheless, I personally wish that while AJT side have stayed on efficiency with the F404, but for the combat variant have gone with an engine with the same diameter and without a dramatic dry weight difference, but with a higher continuous maximum power output. For example single-seat, STOBAR-capable light attack jet powered by an F414. Without working another airframe, structural and avionic improvements to the extent of TAI's capabilities, as well as a 20/25% more powerful engine configuration, could lead to higher top speed limits, turn rate and climb capability, and perhaps more than double the payload capacity specified for the Hürjet AJT, making the Hürjet N/LCA one of the strongest players in the light attack aircraft market within the possible fastest way.

 

[selim]

I don't know what other arguments to give you, half of Europe and the USA don't see the country as a partner but as a competitor.

They don't want to supply high technology by any means because they know Turkey will not only use these systems to defend their hard & soft power in their region and also outside.
They will do 100% reverse engineering to get knowledge about new systems and their hard & software from USA & Europe to improve and speed up their own systems.
The Russians and Chinese would jerk off live in front of the camera if they were given such access.

The Eurofighter Tranche 3/4 is one of the best and most modern fighter aircraft in the world it is comparable to the F-15 Super Eagle of the USA.
It doesn't matter if it has stealth or not, half the world doesn't even have stealth fighters and it's not going to change much in the next 20 years.

This is a win to win situation for Turkey because 40 Eurofighters are no leverage for Europe which in turn makes Turkey appear totally uncapable of acting if these Eurofighters would be sanctioned by the Eurofighter consortium e.g. with the refusal of spare parts and ammunition because Turkey does strategically & politically what they do not like.
Turkey has always been very resourceful when it comes to spare parts and modification of systems they would find a way to keep the Eurofighters operational and they know that.

The real problem is in sight of USA & Co when Turkey is able to develop weapons systems that really have a significant capability, even in the opinion of the Western states, and then export them to Pakistan and other countries, for example.
Then an era of war by the USA & Co. in the Middle East etc. on country XY ends. Because war is their business.
Then war becomes very expensive for the USA because the opponent may have weapons systems of NATO standard/quality, in the USA wars run together with public opinion, nobody gives a shit if a country at the other end of the world is bombed into the Stone Age, but everything tips over if too many US soldiers bite the dust then you have the same situation as in Vietnam.

Off course, the "West" does see Turkey as a competitor
There's no infinite growth.
When Turkey expands influence and power it does so at the expense of other powers.

In Caucasus the French, USA wielded influence for 30 years through Minsk-Group without producing any results.
Now Azerbaijan calls the shots in Caucasus, Russia and Turkey share the remaining influence.
In Libya they were wielding influence and exploiting Libya's ressources, now Russia and Turkey decide what happens in Libya.

In Sahel, Balkans, Somalia, Qatar, Libya, Caucasus everywhere Turkish influence expands it does so at the expense of someone else.

They do not like Turkey, they don't want Turkey to expand influence to their disadvantage.
Turkey is expanding with military capabilities into those regions.
Hence, they try to restrict Turkish military capabilities.

 

[Saithan]

nice discussions. I am very happy to see the second prototype of Hürjet fly, and I hope we're closer to finalizing the trainer jet version and we order those engines, of course having them built in TEI's facilities would be the best solution and I think that might be very possible with Trump at the rudder.

If anyone thinks of complaining over the old reliable engine I'm going to on ppl.

We'll see the lightarmed version when it's ready, but for now it's more important to start building the trainers., many of them.

 

[Huelague]

AI is not a panacea - how do you want to have program code analysed and optimized by AI software in order to eliminate sources of error or speed things up? To do this, the AI software must first of all know the program code and know what context it belongs to and what it is needed for.

You answered your own question.

 

[Huelague]

But it doesn't change the fact that there is a rocky road ahead and a learning process is taking place.
Operating systems and applications don't come from one day to the next.

No one here deny this.

 

[dBSPL]

Mehmet Demiroğlu, General Manager of TAI: There is a serious demand for our HÜRJET in Europe, North Africa, Central Asia and the Turkic republics. Our negotiations with them have also progressed considerably. We are even making progress with a customer from across the ocean, with whom we have been in talks for quite long.

This statement makes me think that we will see many Hürjet configurations in the coming period, or that external demands are also taken into consideration within the current development activities. I mean, about the LCA variant.

 

[Sanchez]

Meanwhile our own air force have not even ordered the trainer variant yet and literally no official interest for the LCA.

 

[Khagan1923]

Meanwhile our own air force have not even ordered the trainer variant yet and literally no official interest for the LCA.

Trainer has been ordered? Its also no suprise that the Air Force has no interest in the LCA version. They might order a handful a symbolic gesture but other than that the Air Force is interested in force multipliers (Kaan,F-35. EF T4/5, F-16V70)

 

[dBSPL]

Meanwhile our own air force have not even ordered the trainer variant yet and literally no official interest for the LCA.

Unfortunately, I think that this situation may have a negative reflection on the foreign market.

Trainer has been ordered? Its also no suprise that the Air Force has no interest in the LCA version. They might order a handful a symbolic gesture but other than that the Air Force is interested in force multipliers (Kaan,F-35. EF T4/5, F-16V70)

For this very reason, we can say that developing LCA with the same engine configuration as AJT would not be the right approach in terms of domestic needs. For the foreign market, an FA-50 equivalent system may emerge, but in the foreign market, I think the TAF reference will be decisive, and the competitiveness of an aircraft that our own air force will not buy may remain limited in the foreign market.

*

The max payload capacity for the latest F-16s should ultimately be around 16-18K lb, although maneuverability may be reduced by up to 5g. The most important question for me here is to what extent the configuration consisting of the Özgür-2+AESA suite and the indigenous weapons group is equivalent to the Viper B70. Because with this configuration and an infrastructure that can be more compatible with KAAN, the only thing needed to bring the Hürjet fuselage to an electronically equivalent level will be a slightly more powerful engine configuration.

In my humble opinion, with an engine like the F414s, an aircraft with a similar mission range can be created, perhaps with the only shortcoming that the maximum payload capacity will be 12-14 thousand pounds instead of 16-17 , but as a typical payloads configs, it can operate in the desired flight profiles as like main combatants. F-16s have 1+2+6 hardpoints as well as extra hardpoints for the mission pod. Another shortcoming would be to give up at least 2 hardpoints. But this deficiency can be overcome with multiple pylons and increased under-fuselage carrying capacity for some scenarios, as in the Gripen. Having our own airframe, which is actually not such a small platform, opens up a very important room for work in it, but time will tell how much we will be able to use it. Because it all boils down to the engine issues.

 

[boredaf]

literally no official interest for the LCA.

I'd be surprised if they were interested in a jet that can't even carry 3 tonnes, which means can't even carry the heaviest munitions we have, which we use extensively, making it barely better than drones we use for CAS.

 

[dBSPL]

Also, making the aircraft navalized and strengthening the landing gear will significantly affect the total weight of the aircraft. At first, I had the idea that a maximum payload capacity approaching 12,000lbs would be possible, as the Koreans did with the F404, but now I think it will be below the Koreans because of navalizing aircraft. Also, one more detail, the maximum payload capacity of the FA-50 in the Korean web sources given as 12,000 lbs but design allowable load states as up to 20,000 lbs. This perhaps indirectly shows that the Koreans may turn to a different engine configuration on this airframe in the future.


FA-50 (current 2-seat LCA variant) specs: https://web.archive.org/web/20220827015328/https://koreaaero.tistory.com/4
(sorry for google translate but it's still understandable)

 

[Sanchez]

Trainer has been ordered?

Aerobatics variant have been ordered for Turkish Stars, not the trainer. So far air force have not ordered the trainer version.

 

[Khagan1923]

Aerobatics variant have been ordered for Turkish Stars, not the trainer. So far air force have not ordered the trainer version.

They have ordered 16 Trainer Aircraft? 4 Block-0 12 Block-1.

 

[Sanchez]

They have ordered 16 Trainer Aircraft? 4 Block-0 12 Block-1.

Do you remember when Hürjet visited Konya and made a joint flight with Turkish Stars last year? Why didn't it visit Çiğli instead? Noone have confirmed so far that the 4+12 Hürjets HvKK ordered are the trainer variant, just like Hürkuş isn't. They are the aerobatics variant for the Stars.

 

[Khagan1923]

Do you remember when Hürjet visited Konya and made a joint flight with Turkish Stars last year? Why didn't it visit Çiğli instead? Noone have confirmed so far that the 4+12 Hürjets HvKK ordered are the trainer variant, just like Hürkuş isn't. They are the aerobatics variant for the Stars.

We shall see. Don't think Air Force will pay that much money for 16 Aircraft and then hand them over to the Turkish Stars while its own Trainer Fleet is slowly rotting away. At least not all of them. Maybe the first 4. Block 1 will surely be inducted into the Air Force.

We shall see.

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1856336461311643774

HÜRJET's second prototype flew for the first time!

TAI: “ #HÜRJET The second prototype made its first flight in our free skies with the names of our martyrs!

10,000 feet altitude
200 knots speed
26 minutes flight time”


Just another step forward.
Also, I’m deeply touched by the gesture of writing the victims of attack on the plane

The second prototype of Turkish Aerospace’s Hurjet advanced jet trainer has completed its first flight.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1859026191078093007

You are a little bit late and in the wrong thread.

 

[Strong AI]

Wave like the dawns, oh glorious crescent!

HÜRJET's second prototype took to the skies with its new paint!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1859633787476287500

 

[Sanchez]

Wave like the dawns, oh glorious crescent!

HÜRJET's second prototype took to the skies with its new paint!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1859633787476287500

Turkish Su-35 right there, lovely.