News Hindu temple destroyed, set on fire by mob in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan never claimed that is secular western democracy, so.

The comparison with India thereby becomes all the more forced.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What is fact for sure casta system and democracy can not be under the same roof, it coud be only some kind of social mutant structure.

You might like to read up on the political structures of Mahajanapadas.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What is fact for sure casta system and democracy can not be under the same roof, it coud be only some kind of social mutant structure.

Of course. But what flows from that? What is your point?

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is not concpiracy it is fact, i understtamd very well how democracy works, it is biggest scam ever, how you presemt it for you it is just mathematical score.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? First you criticise India (apparently) by saying democracy and a caste system cannot co-exist. Then, after dropping heavy explosive devices on one team, you go on to nuke the playing field, and proclaim that democracy itself is a sham. Do you really have a clear position on this topic?

@Yankeestani @Corona

Presumably your continuous stream of endorsements of these silly posts indicates your approval of them. Just checking.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I wouldn't hold by breath about that if I were in Pakistan. Just my nose most likely.

79m Pakistanis still lack a decent toilet: report - Daily Times

LAHORE: WaterAid report revealed at a ceremony in connection with World Toilet Day (WTD) on Wednesday stated that Pakistan is now the seventh worst country in the world in terms of access to basic sanitation facilities, while 42 percent of the total population in Pakistan remains without access...

dailytimes.com.pk

Isn't that half your people?

This is not a favoured metric among our neighbours.

 

[Joe Shearer]

all too often get waylaid in futile one-upmanship.

That won't do. You aren't one of the patwaris or the youthias. Please don't tell me that you are drawn to these situations by an irresistible attraction, because that is simply not credible. Just ignore these. Please.

 

[Jackdaws]

I don't; but your essential point is presumably that the Sangh Parivar believes in an abbreviated, mutilated theology that is nothing but a desiccated form of Hinduism. It is difficult to disagree with that.

About Jinnah, we can debate his role separately.

My point is that Modi is an opportunist who would gladly throw anyone under the bus and use any scrupulous method to fuel his political ambition. Like Trump right now except Modi isn't as stupid as Trump - he has a bit more tact.

 

[Nilgiri]

That won't do. You aren't one of the patwaris or the youthias. Please don't tell me that you are drawn to these situations by an irresistible attraction, because that is simply not credible. Just ignore these. Please.

Joe you are bit late to bullfight in the tea-room again. Out of one room, they'd move to another...so kind of hard looking back to see who and where it started and grew.

There was about a week or two of this kind of stuff going back and forth (across multiple threads) combining with me being bit more occupied outside (christmas, new years etc).....and them also being banned/slienced at PDF so bull-running shifted here.

but its settled down now (I think and hope)....

So don't judge them too much on one highlight-reel.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe you are bit late to bullfight in the tea-room again.

Ah, I believe the tea cups and saucers and milk jugs and sugar bowls were involved too, if we are to believe the old adage.

Your point is taken; this was an old thread, and everyone has moved on. Fair enough.

 

[Nilgiri]

My point is that Modi is an opportunist who would gladly throw anyone under the bus and use any scrupulous method to fuel his political ambition. Like Trump right now except Modi isn't as stupid as Trump - he has a bit more tact.

To be frank, Modi and Trump are equally stupid in their own specific ways....just like the broader coterie of politicians in both countries (I can get into which are the standouts that buck the trend in US especially, on both sides of the aisle, but thats really long somewhat irrelevant conversation).

Trump never had much of a political career (past that joke of a stunt he did with the reform party), rather it (2015/16) was a hand in glove + sledgehammer moment that will take far too long to get into as to why he got the presidency after 8 years of Obama (who goofed up big time and did his lasting damage too, it just got "packaged" nicer).

Compare that to Modi (always lampreyed into politics of a specific kind), SIT result whatever that was, he holds culpability of a full on large scale riot with 2000+ deaths he was close up to....when at first sight/sound of what was going on, we all know what should have been deployed then and there a complete curfew and shoot on sight of any evil-doers.

Vajpayee insinuated this right to his face...but really should have gone further.

You won't find anything of that sort in the developed countries with developed systems (as much as they have cracks and flaws).

As big as the US is (its the only country in west that comes to the raw scale of India), and barring the episodes that happened in 2020 (which need far more years of analysis to come to conclusion w.r.t damage+cost...but lives lost were maybe around a dozen or a score in total)...the last mob riot of massive sustenance happened in Los Angeles due to the Rodney King video...that was about 60 deaths...with near 12,000 arrested.

You can do the math as to what needed to happen w.r.t 2002 Gujarat riots...but it was all let slip and rot and fester if you look at the bail-rate, prosecution rate, turn-in rate (of communities involved) and all that kind of stuff between the two.

The systems are not built up and matured the same....thus Modi+co. does far more lasting damage. Refer to what I meant about the 35% savings rate slipping to 30% already. That's really the psyche + trust number (at this stage) to watch well past the voters reacting to far-downstream identity politics since Babri.

I feel sickened there is nothing good I see coming from the left+centrists in the US and the left+centrists in India. Just same reactionary garbage, crap-flinging and their own hypocrisy/ego....and it becomes who "started" what....and we go back centuries, millenia over people that have long breathed their last and distort and filter all of that as required.

Rather than look at the lessons and deal with what we got today. What is truth and what is untruth? What is good and what is bad? How about we all start there?

No one wants to take a whack to ego and dynasties and all that, call out their bad actors and their bad mistakes...rather its some lousy winner takes all zero-sum inertia....bleh. Why are humans so invested in this stuff...why do people form support-mobs for this treacherous negative toxic crap.

I mean how hard is to look at the strength of the best parts of the edifices built so far and be plainly honest?

It is telling the deepest connection and support I have developed today in the "alt-media" (because the mainstream media is totally compromised and garbage tbh) is with one who is what most people would call "far-leftie".

Even though I am apparently "right-wing" or even "far-righty" as some have told me. How did it come to pass? its because I see he is able to call out his side plainly and is consistent about it. He values honesty and credibility (as much as I disagree with many of his theories and conclusions, that is where we can engage in respectful debate in the best realm for it - i.e free speech and the vote entrusted to us).

Things do not need to be this way at all...not one bit. I just get more confused and angry looking at this. People I know should know better.... what in the #$#!

I just want honesty and credibility man. It really isnt too much to ask for, it really isnt rocket science.




Now another leader says: "Break their hearts and break some heads".
Is there nothing we can say or doooooo?
Blame the future on the past,
Always lost in bloody guts.
And when they're gone, it's me and yooooooouuu....

-The Kinks

@VCheng

 

[Jackdaws]

To be frank, Modi and Trump are equally stupid in their own specific ways....just like the broader coterie of politicians in both countries (I can get into which are the standouts that buck the trend in US especially, on both sides of the aisle, but thats really long somewhat irrelevant conversation).

Trump never had much of a political career (past that joke of a stunt he did with the reform party), rather it (2015/16) was a hand in glove + sledgehammer moment that will take far too long to get into as to why he got the presidency after 8 years of Obama (who goofed up big time and did his lasting damage too, it just got "packaged" nicer).

Compare that to Modi (always lampreyed into politics of a specific kind), SIT result whatever that was, he holds culpability of a full on large scale riot with 2000+ deaths he was close up to....when at first sight/sound of what was going on, we all know what should have been deployed then and there a complete curfew and shoot on sight of any evil-doers.

Vajpayee insinuated this right to his face...but really should have gone further.

You won't find anything of that sort in the developed countries with developed systems (as much as they have cracks and flaws).

As big as the US is (its the only country in west that comes to the raw scale of India), and barring the episodes that happened in 2020 (which need far more years of analysis to come to conclusion w.r.t damage+cost...but lives lost were maybe around a dozen or a score in total)...the last mob riot of massive sustenance happened in Los Angeles due to the Rodney King video...that was about 60 deaths...with near 12,000 arrested.

You can do the math as to what needed to happen w.r.t 2002 Gujarat riots...but it was all let slip and rot and fester if you look at the bail-rate, prosecution rate, turn-in rate (of communities involved) and all that kind of stuff between the two.

The systems are not built up and matured the same....thus Modi+co. does far more lasting damage. Refer to what I meant about the 35% savings rate slipping to 30% already. That's really the psyche + trust number (at this stage) to watch well past the voters reacting to far-downstream identity politics since Babri.

I feel sickened there is nothing good I see coming from the left+centrists in the US and the left+centrists in India. Just same reactionary garbage, crap-flinging and their own hypocrisy/ego....and it becomes who "started" what....and we go back centuries, millenia over people that have long breathed their last and distort and filter all of that as required.

Rather than look at the lessons and deal with what we got today. What is truth and what is untruth? What is good and what is bad? How about we all start there?

No one wants to take a whack to ego and dynasties and all that, call out their bad actors and their bad mistakes...rather its some lousy winner takes all zero-sum inertia....bleh. Why are humans so invested in this stuff...why do people form support-mobs for this treacherous negative toxic crap.

I mean how hard is to look at the strength of the best parts of the edifices built so far and be plainly honest?

It is telling the deepest connection and support I have developed today in the "alt-media" (because the mainstream media is totally compromised and garbage tbh) is with one who is what most people would call "far-leftie".

Even though I am apparently "right-wing" or even "far-righty" as some have told me. How did it come to pass? its because I see he is able to call out his side plainly and is consistent about it. He values honesty and credibility (as much as I disagree with many of his theories and conclusions, that is where we can engage in respectful debate in the best realm for it - i.e free speech and the vote entrusted to us).

Things do not need to be this way at all...not one bit. I just get more confused and angry looking at this. People I know should know better.... what in the #$#!

I just want honesty and credibility man. It really isnt too much to ask for, it really isnt rocket science.




Now another leader says: "Break their hearts and break some heads".
Is there nothing we can say or doooooo?
Blame the future on the past,
Always lost in bloody guts.
And when they're gone, it's me and yooooooouuu....

-The Kinks

@VCheng

I agree with a lot of stuff you said.

But India doesn't really have a left wing or a right wing in the Western sense of the word.

E.g. It was the so-called right wing which did not object to decriminalizing homosexuality in India. This is something the so-called left wing wouldn't touch. I was at the Jaipur Lit Fest - it used to be one of the top lit fests in the world till it became a commercial page 3 event - and the Congress did not allow Salman Rushdie to speak. So much for free speech.

And tbh, outside of Nehru and Shastri, Vajpayee was probably the best PM we had. At the end of the day, it boils down to personal integrity.

With the BJP, it is a relief to see people like Gadkari and Piyush Goyal as Ministers rather than Shibu Soren and Lalloo Yadav.

Wrt to 2002, I didn't live in India during the riots so I don't have first hand knowledge. But they should just have replaced Modi then and there. It's not as if he was populist who got elected - he was just given the job.

 

[mulj]

Aren't you contradicting yourself? First you criticise India (apparently) by saying democracy and a caste system cannot co-exist. Then, after dropping heavy explosive devices on one team, you go on to nuke the playing field, and proclaim that democracy itself is a sham. Do you really have a clear position on this topic?

@Yankeestani @Corona

Presumably your continuous stream of endorsements of these silly posts indicates your approval of them. Just checking.

Humans are living contradictions, i just recognize it on other subjects from time to time.

 

[mulj]

Given the quality of your posts and the quality of your information, this is a difficult proposition.

Would i lie and give bad quality information if i tell that india organize science conference about how mistretment of cows cause earthquakes, come on...

 

[mulj]

@Joe Shearer as you quoted me to many times i will reply shortly in one post.
My posts are simple answers on deragotory threads towards pakistan issues and events there, nothing more, nothing less. If your fellow countrymen stops opening that onesided and propagandist kind of threads you will for sure see less of my replies and it wont be on display for yours high intelectual criterias.

Regards.

 

[Nilgiri]

I agree with a lot of stuff you said.

But India doesn't really have a left wing or a right wing in the Western sense of the word.

E.g. It was the so-called right wing which did not object to decriminalizing homosexuality in India. This is something the so-called left wing wouldn't touch. I was at the Jaipur Lit Fest - it used to be one of the top lit fests in the world till it became a commercial page 3 event - and the Congress did not allow Salman Rushdie to speak. So much for free speech.

And tbh, outside of Nehru and Shastri, Vajpayee was probably the best PM we had. At the end of the day, it boils down to personal integrity.

With the BJP, it is a relief to see people like Gadkari and Piyush Goyal as Ministers rather than Shibu Soren and Lalloo Yadav.

Wrt to 2002, I didn't live in India during the riots so I don't have first hand knowledge. But they should just have replaced Modi then and there. It's not as if he was populist who got elected - he was just given the job.

I just mean it from a who's in power vs opposition. I see nothing promising anywhere I look.

I can launch into the big differences between the US and Europe on it (what left and right mean), but thats not the point.

I have lost faith in the political class at large globally....as I can see what they are up to and have always been up to, at a resolution I never had before.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Vajpayee insinuated this right to his face...but really should have gone further.

If you recall, at that same press conference, Modi interrupted Vajpayee, while the latter was saying that the duty of leadership should have been followed, to interject,"...but that is precisely what was done!" That left Vajpayee the awkward option of bluntly saying, "No, it wasn't," or shutting up and buggering off. He shut up and buggered off.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Would i lie and give bad quality information if i tell that india organize science conference about how mistretment of cows cause earthquakes, come on...

No, you would not lie, you would merely confirm that you are on the same level as those cretins.

That outcome is defined by some Americans as making the rubble bounce.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer as you quoted me to many times i will reply shortly in one post.
My posts are simple answers on deragotory threads towards pakistan issues and events there, nothing more, nothing less. If your fellow countrymen stops opening that onesided and propagandist kind of threads you will for sure see less of my replies and it wont be on display for yours high intelectual criterias.

Regards.

Promises, promises.....

Regards.

 

[mulj]

No, you would not lie, you would merely confirm that you are on the same level as those cretins.

That outcome is defined by some Americans as making the rubble bounce.

I am on same level with those people just necause i passed that information

Now apply same standard to the opener of this topic

 

[Jackdaws]

If you recall, at that same press conference, Modi interrupted Vajpayee, while the latter was saying that the duty of leadership should have been followed, to interject,"...but that is precisely what was done!" That left Vajpayee the awkward option of bluntly saying, "No, it wasn't," or shutting up and buggering off. He shut up and buggered off.

Vajpayee had tact. And that illiterate Modi hadn't become semi literate Modi. He was publicly admonishing him anyway. It's not as if Vajpayee agreed with Modi.