News Hindu temple destroyed, set on fire by mob in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province

Test7

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I would have replied to you in private but since your 'message' was made in public I believe it is right and proper that my reply is in public.

The fact is; and this is a jarring reality, that there is intense rivalry between India and Pakistan. This is how it is in the real world. As I write this men are dying on the LOC between Pakistan and India. This is how it is.

So when you have a defence related website you can guarantee there is going be friction between these camps. To not expect would be silly. Elemental to defence forum is defence related subjects. War is the feedstock of defence forums because sans that there would be no need for defence industries or defence forums or armies. All this pivots on conflict. That ugly but a very real human trait. Beastly as it is but humans have sterilized it in uniforms and armies. But it is still that. Beastly. You saw the recent Armenian versus Azerbaijani conflict. There was nothing civilized or pacific about it. It was exposition of aggression unlimited.

So you must allow this to inform issues relating to the India versus Pakistan rivalry. It is real. As real and on a far bigger scale then Armenia versus Azerbaijan which is a storm in the tea cup by comparison.

What I have said so far applies in equal measure to both the Indian and Pakistani sides. However what I am about to say applies specifically to the Pakistani side with which I am privilaged to belong. We consistently face asymmetry in numbers. To put it bluntly there are far, far more Indian's on earth [soon to outnumber Chinese] then Pakistani's. Something like nearly 7 times more.

So if your going to judge me or Pakistani's 'by numbers' or how "many complained" pardon my French but we are screwed from the word go. Wrong and right or fairplay should never be premised on "how many" but by the merits of the case.

Long before I frequented this or Pakistani forums I was regular on western forums [British/American] given that English was effectively my adopted language. I often used to be the only Pak origin member and this "many complained" problem would often ear it's ugly head. The indian's would all gang up and behind my back bitch to the Mods - something I find unhealthy. Often the Mods would bring the axe on me not because of the merits of the case but because "how many complained". Given that typically there would be half dozen more Indians on the said forums this was not surprising. So I would be smothered effectively by numbers. Quantity would prevail at cost of quality.

I remember few months back a report on BBC about the fact that 'Asian' doctors in UK [Indians/Pakistani's] face something like 10 tmes more complaints to the BMA [British Medical Association of doctors] and the BMA representative saying to the BBC reporter "ever heard of racism".

So I can't say to you about racism but I can say "ever heard of numbers?"

Without prejudice.

@T-123456
We encourage each member to write their opinions freely. This freedom does not mean that we accept the insult. We deleted dozens of messages containing insults to Armenians. As we always say, "There are dozens of ways to defend ideas".
 

Kaptaan

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We encourage each member to write their opinions freely. This freedom does not mean that we accept the insult. We deleted dozens of messages containing insults to Armenians. As we always say, "There are dozens of ways to defend ideas".
When and I always do, make robust defence of Pakistan please expect that other side to make a ruckus about my "aggression". I am merely defending against deluge of threads opened daily with the common theme of being driven by a agenda against Pakistan.
 

Kaptaan

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I would if I could comprehend what he says. Hence the last sentence.
Sorry. Despite his English not being ideal the fact is one can get the gist of what he is saying. Your just using that as a excuse to kick the 'man' and not the 'ball' and you know it.
 

Jackdaws

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Sorry. Despite his English not being ideal the fact is one can get the gist of what he is saying. Your just using that as a excuse to kick the 'man' and not the 'ball' and you know it.
I don't judge people based on how they use English - it's just a communication tool. However I am not going bother deciphering gibberish.
 

mulj

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Sorry. Despite his English not being ideal the fact is one can get the gist of what he is saying. Your just using that as a excuse to kick the 'man' and not the 'ball' and you know it.
Dont worry bro it is similar to the gramar nazi tactics from the beginning of internet forums, fake smiles and resort to my typo and bad english tell everything about his position. On the other side, i am not against India, i do bussiness with indian company altough based in Dubai, really honest and professional person but i can not be blind and ignorant on things that i see amd continious double standard relating to this kind of issues.
 

Nilgiri

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Thanks for that. The only reason for my request was because I could see where the thread was headed. In hindsight, I wasn't wrong - it always boils down to whataboutery and off topic discussions.

Don't hang on...
Nothin' lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away...
And all your money won't another minute buy



No idea why you are wasting your time in craving the last word with someone that matters naught over issues that matter naught to audience.

Then you go after his English in some cringe way. Like who cares man? You ever going to meet this fellow or impress anyone else here with the snob attitude?

You are only undermining yourself and your country doing this stuff past due date.

One incisive knock versus drawn out repetitive surgery with predictable hypochondriacs, what you think the people watching (that matter more than the ones engaging in all this) care for more?

I mean its best to focus on worthy Bosnians in real life (if you ever have good fortune to come across them). Their population is just 3 million odd and only half are Bosniak.

One Bosniak acquaintance I have here in Canada for example.

On fishing trip together (he is fellow engineer at work), I explained the long story of how a Muslim fisherman's son is reason we have our space program as far as along as it is.

He liked that story, he has since recounted it to many more.

More broadly, he is an example of a worthy in number of ways (he let actions speak for themselves).

He is not surprisingly advancing very well in his department.

It is from him I learned most credibly and fairly regarding Bosnian "3rd leg" of the unstable barstool story of the FYR war (to complement/contrast the accounts I had gathered mostly from similarly credible Serbs and Croats till then).

People like him count for very many magnitudes more than anonymous internet types that don't know the first thing about credibility and reach, much less throw it any distance that matters....faulty english or not.

If they (anon. internet) are infatuated with a takfiri wing of ver 2.0 or ver 3.0 "nation"...you just let them be man.

Why is this so difficult to do? A last word attitude that ends up harming India tbh, is worth more?

You think the Turks would have left PDF and set this place up if each and every day they had folks like you giving last word cringe on some Ind-Pak slugfest issue?

Or simply let the truth of the matter percolate to them over the special Pak-psyche own repeated action?

Ask yourself again, if the "last word" syndrome even magically works this time and all the folks in thread here completely accept your position and word (say genuinely and honestly even, for arguments sake)....Is it going to change anything out there of consequence given its just a cpl people?

What are you better off doing? Surely improving yourself and helping to improve better people here right? Surely leave the big forces of truth to do its thing, and trust in that right?

That larger force process already doing its 1 - 2 - 3 regarding this entity's setup on untruth and paranoia....an entity that grabs your fascination and obsession so recklessly for god knows why....that you will do your utmost each time to put your single silly action as more imperative to illustrate over it? Just let people recognise if they want to and leave them be after a point.

What you think punch up means?

It means spar with midget (after he has made it clear in some autistic, predictable way) below you in the ring?
just to feel good? ...at detriment to both?

Or spar with better and more agile than you (or at least an equivalent worthy)....at advantage to you or both?

People judge you (and ultimately your identity and country) by the crowd you keep...and those you choose to engage.

If its not worth it, dump it ASAP. Or you ARE it (the midget)...and you prove you are no different to them.

Why focus on dust, when you ought to focus on diamonds?
 

Jackdaws

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Don't hang on...
Nothin' lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away...
And all your money won't another minute buy




No idea why you are wasting your time in craving the last word with someone that matters naught over issues that matter naught to audience.

Then you go after his English in some cringe way. Like who cares man? You ever going to meet this fellow or impress anyone else here with the snob attitude?

You are only undermining yourself and your country doing this stuff past due date.

One incisive knock versus drawn out repetitive surgery with predictable hypochondriacs, what you think the people watching (that matter more than the ones engaging in all this) care for more?

I mean its best to focus on worthy Bosnians in real life (if you ever have good fortune to come across them). Their population is just 3 million odd and only half are Bosniak.

One Bosniak acquaintance I have here in Canada for example.

On fishing trip together (he is fellow engineer at work), I explained the long story of how a Muslim fisherman's son is reason we have our space program as far as along as it is.

He liked that story, he has since recounted it to many more.

More broadly, he is an example of a worthy in number of ways (he let actions speak for themselves).

He is not surprisingly advancing very well in his department.

It is from him I learned most credibly and fairly regarding Bosnian "3rd leg" of the unstable barstool story of the FYR war (to complement/contrast the accounts I had gathered mostly from similarly credible Serbs and Croats till then).

People like him count for very many magnitudes more than anonymous internet types that don't know the first thing about credibility and reach, much less throw it any distance that matters....faulty english or not.

If they (anon. internet) are infatuated with a takfiri wing of ver 2.0 or ver 3.0 "nation"...you just let them be man.

Why is this so difficult to do? A last word attitude that ends up harming India tbh, is worth more?

You think the Turks would have left PDF and set this place up if each and every day they had folks like you giving last word cringe on some Ind-Pak slugfest issue?

Or simply let the truth of the matter percolate to them over the special Pak-psyche own repeated action?

Ask yourself again, if the "last word" syndrome even magically works this time and all the folks in thread here completely accept your position and word (say genuinely and honestly even, for arguments sake)....Is it going to change anything out there of consequence given its just a cpl people?

What are you better off doing? Surely improving yourself and helping to improve better people here right? Surely leave the big forces of truth to do its thing, and trust in that right?

That larger force process already doing its 1 - 2 - 3 regarding this entity's setup on untruth and paranoia....an entity that grabs your fascination and obsession so recklessly for god knows why....that you will do your utmost each time to put your single silly action as more imperative to illustrate over it? Just let people recognise if they want to and leave them be after a point.

What you think punch up means?

It means spar with midget (after he has made it clear in some autistic, predictable way) below you in the ring?
just to feel good? ...at detriment to both?

Or spar with better and more agile than you (or at least an equivalent worthy)....at advantage to you or both?

People judge you (and ultimately your identity and country) by the crowd you keep...and those you choose to engage.

If its not worth it, dump it ASAP. Or you ARE it (the midget)...and you prove you are no different to them.

Why focus on dust, when you ought to focus on diamonds?
You are right. He is now on ignore.
 

Joe Shearer

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It’s really important to understand the intent of certain words. The term ‘Hindu’ was used by king Darius-I to mention the province of Hindush, referring to northwestern India.
The people of India were referred to as Hinduvān & hindavī was used as the adjective for Indian in the 8th-century text Chachnama.The term 'Hindu' in these ancient records is an ethnic-geographical term.The Arabic equivalent Al-Hind likewise referred to the country of India.
Tva is a secondary suffix added to the word hindu
Tva(essence)
Like essence of people living beyond Sindhu river.

Btw Ik your intentions were not of being "racist" but choice of word was wrong ig.
It is really difficult to agree to the merging of Hindutva with the general concept, both the religious and the ethnic sides of the concept, of Hindu.

Hindutva has very little to do with Hindu. Its principal promoter was an atheist. Please don't hit back with the information that an atheist can be a Hindu, because that is not true.
 

Joe Shearer

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Ok, how would i call those gnags and in name of what they are vandalizimg and terrorizing people?
All i see some orange flags when they comit crimes and in my limited knowledge that colour is assosieted with hinduism, correct me if i am wrong?
  1. Gangs, vandalising buildings and terrorising people = members of the Sangh Parivar
  2. Orange flags = associated with Hindus, also with Sikhs, also with Buddhists. So what? The swastika was a Hindu symbol; is there a need to go into a song and dance about it?
 

Joe Shearer

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You can whitewash it is as long as you want, what they were doing at first place around mosque? And you have audacity to complain about reactionary vandalization in pakistan. Sort your country mess first.
You can start from love jihad and cow protection laws.
This is becoming downright silly.
First, the determination of the Pakistani administration to stand firm against attacks on minorities and their institutions and buildings merely underlines the obvious fact that there are attacks.
Second, the number of incidents that are anti-Muslim in India are concentrated in the BJP ruled states, where it is their policy to harass the minorities, the Muslims ahead of the Christians, but not exclusively so. Dislike of the BJP is growing steadily, not simply because of their bigoted attitudes, but also because of their sheer inefficiency. They can win elections, sometimes, but they cannot administer what they have won election to.
Third, the people around the mosque obviously intended to harass the worshippers of the mosque; unless it is your proposal that every mosque (and every church) should have a 24 hour armed guard, how do you think troublemakers can be stopped from going to these and raising - surprise! - trouble?

As far as sorting the mess in India is concerned, there are very large numbers of Indians working for that. Love Jihad is a ridiculous concept and the laws against it have been both statutory and embodied in ordinances, that are not required to be legislated. Both are under judicial scrutiny.

I eat beef, but I also recognise that banning cow slaughter has a justification, when the vocal elements of the congregation that amounts to around 80% of the population has strong feelings about it. It is justified, although I disagree with the underlying sentiment. Perhaps you do not know, but this is banned only in certain states, and is freely available in others. In my home town of Hyderabad, for instance, there is no problem.

It is better that you spend time gaining a better knowledge of the situation in India rather than quote attention-getting headlines from the vernacular press.
 

Joe Shearer

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We don't live in a military state. If people wish to assemble, that's their right. Right now thousands of Indian farmers have assembled near Delhi to repeal farm laws. When an assembly becomes a mob, then it is a problem. In this case, the authorities did not allow the mob to break the mosque. In our neighboring country though, the temple seems to have been demolished without the authorities even intervening. Now if this is factually incorrect, by all means correct me.

Love Jehad laws will be repealed - they don't even exist in my State. What's wrong if cows are protected? There is no infringement on anyone's religious right - there is no dogma requiring any religion to kill cows.
Totally agree.
 

Joe Shearer

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Regarding farmers all i see is continous demonisation of Sikhs community as some Khalistan separatists and similar.
Another instance of partial information. The agitation is not confined to the Punjab; it just happens to be the nearest state; UP farmers have also joined the agitation in large numbers.

Even the muscle-bound morons leading the BJP have realised the stupidity of calling the farmers Khalistanis, and public statements have been made by both RSS and BJP asking critics of the agitation to avoid using terrorist labels for the farmers.
 

Joe Shearer

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Pls do not insullt people who can clearly see what it is acctually based on clear evidences and common sense.
Given the quality of your posts and the quality of your information, this is a difficult proposition.
 

Joe Shearer

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State-Sponsored Religious Massacres in Gujarat, India (2002)​



Modi, a Hindu nationalist, was denied a visa to enter the United States in 2005 on religious-freedom grounds, stemming from allegations that

As far as I remember, I have been one of those agitating about Modi's role, and about the Sangh Parivar's menace to Indian society, from 2012 onwards.

Fun fact 1: I am Indian. There are several million Indians who were involved in uncovering the facts behind this horrible series of murderous riots.
Fun fact 2: I am Hindu; the vast majority of those who agitated against the Gujarat riots were Hindu. Almost all of the fact-finding was by Hindus.

It is an egregious mistake to assume that either 'Muslims' think and behave as a single entity with a single mind, or that 'Hindus' do.
 

Joe Shearer

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How is that related to the breaking of a temple in Pakistan?

As it is I consider Modi to be a Hindu version of Jinnah - so am glad he was denied a visa. I'll celebrate when he loses the general election.
I don't; but your essential point is presumably that the Sangh Parivar believes in an abbreviated, mutilated theology that is nothing but a desiccated form of Hinduism. It is difficult to disagree with that.

About Jinnah, we can debate his role separately.
 

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