News Indonesia - US - China Relation, and ASEAN. Whats going on?

Gundala

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While from geopolitic aspect, they're still relying on FPDA backing if things ever went south. Again, this is the result of their entitled mentality.
You made me watch the history lesson, good video tho

If I could portrait what their military forum comments, what trishna said is not far off specially about the FPDA. I am thinking the same thing about their history/culture, along with some books that I read, both give me the same impression. It translates to the government policy just the same as military is not too much of priority but diplomacy, foreign relation comes first. I personally very surprise watching trishna video and see the similarity on how their react to threat back then and how they conduct their geopolitic diplomacy in todays world :LOL:

Now I kow why they looked away on Indonesia suggestion regarding malacca straight, turns out they are already in bed with China since thousand of years ago :LOL: (just kidding)
 

FPXAllen

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You first need to understand the underlying historical, cultural, domestic politic, and geopolitic aspects that shape their line of thinking

From historical aspect is this :
Ah I see. I've been subscribed to the channel for years and have watched their series before but the points in that video have eluded me somehow. Also, the confrontation era when Soekarno was trying so hard to fight againt the creation of Malaysia didn't really help to minimize their sentiments.

Thanks for reminding me about this video.
While from cultural aspect, one thing I've notice and very prominent is their entitled mentality. For us Indonesia, we gain our independence trough struggle, be that in arms or diplomatic.
We have indeed fought our way for independence, thus - for better or worse - we have this "militant" mentality which makes us see many things differently with our neighbor there even though we're practically living side-by-side.

There's still one thing that I would like to point out, however. That is, although during Soeharto's era we had something like a "state sponsored racism" against Indonesians of Chinese descent as well as to some other minorities - especially those who still uphold their traditional beliefs - but I'm glad that we also had someone like Gus Dur who brought many fundamental changes which bring us to be like what we are now.

The results are clear: All of these changes that he brought have gradually transformed our own mentality to be more inclusive to any Indonesians regardless of their ethic backgrounds and beliefs, which I hope will only get improved and widespread as the time goes by. Of course, I don't mean that there are no challenges to these transformations, but for the most part I still believe we're heading on the right path.

Now why do I bring this up? It's because even though I came from the same faith background, I can't stand the way our neigbor see themselves as the "chosen race" and practically put other ethnic minorities as second class citizens. In my view, it's one thing if you're so proud of your own ethnic and religious background, but if those are the only merits that you can count on then it won't mean much especially in today's world.

While from geopolitic aspect, they're still relying on FPDA backing if things ever went south. Again, this is the result of their entitled mentality.
I personally very surprise watching trishna video and see the similarity on how their react to threat back then and how they conduct their geopolitic diplomacy in todays world
In comparison to the Philippines again, although they also have the US backing them, but the Pinoys have realized the importance of being able to defend their country on their own strength - or at least that's the impression I've got starting from a couple of years ago.
 
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trishna_amrta

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In comparison to the Philippines again, although they also have the US backing them, but the Pinoys have realized the importance of being able to defend their country on their own strength - or at least that's the impression I've got starting from a couple of years ago.
Apple to Orange. The phinoy have a history of fighting 🇪🇸and afterward 🇺🇸. Granted, they lose the fight for independence and remain under 🇺🇸 rule. But those struggle shape their collective mentality that they must fight for something they believe (whatever that is).

BTW do you know that there is strong indication that phinoy is a former Wilwatikta (Majapahit) colony❓
 

trishna_amrta

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I personally very surprise watching trishna video and see the similarity on how their react to threat back then and how they conduct their geopolitic diplomacy in todays world :LOL:

Now I kow why they looked away on Indonesia suggestion regarding malacca straight, turns out they are already in bed with China since thousand of years ago :LOL: (just kidding)
Nothing new under the sun aren't they
 

Madokafc

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Aren't all that also require a budgetary upgrade from our side first❓Anyway, this kind of policy repositioning will take time

As long as 🇮🇩put their standing right, they are willing to give more "subsidy" in any form to arm 🇮🇩 military to the teeth and to lift up 🇮🇩 economy into more prominent position as the balancing power in the region.

Indonesia had more Capital to do so, even the Australian is fall short by big margin compared to us.
 

trishna_amrta

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@Umigami , WOI‼️ gue kok dapet warning terkait "Inaproriate Language"❓Sebelah mananya emang⁉️ Di forum ini ada 1 orang yg hobynya bikin banyak account juga lanjut2x aja, troll, buzzer, agitator juga lanjut aja, kok malah gue yg dapet warning.

Ini udah 2x gue dapet warning yang ga jelas urusannya model gini. Kalau terus2x-an gini, jegkel2x gue delete account gue (cabut dari sini) attau gue bisa main "bantingan" secara electronic.

Saran gue, jangan delete postingaan ini. Supaya yang lain bisa baca. Kalau di delete yach.... gimana lagi....
 

Umigami

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@Umigami , WOI‼️ gue kok dapet warning terkait "Inaproriate Language"❓Sebelah mananya emang⁉️ Di forum ini ada 1 orang yg hobynya bikin banyak account juga lanjut2x aja, troll, buzzer, agitator juga lanjut aja, kok malah gue yg dapet warning.

Ini udah 2x gue dapet warning yang ga jelas urusannya model gini. Kalau terus2x-an gini, jegkel2x gue delete account gue (cabut dari sini) attau gue bisa main "bantingan" secara electronic.

Saran gue, jangan delete postingaan ini. Supaya yang lain bisa baca. Kalau di delete yach.... gimana lagi....
Kalau ada troll, buzzer, agitator, etc report aja. Nanti kami proses.
 

Gundala

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In comparison to the Philippines again, although they also have the US backing them, but the Pinoys have realized the importance of being able to defend their country on their own strength - or at least that's the impression I've got starting from a couple of years ago.
Everything happen for a reason. "Pendapat bodoh saya" saying that it was caused by the effect of US Subic Base sometimes ago which make them feel secure and have the options to put military developement priority for their own external threat to a lesser degree. When US moved out they were facing their own political turmoil & economic pressure resulting the inability to focus on military development.

Then comes China intrusion, Philipine was turning to US and somehow got a cold shoulder from them. With very minimal military capability this event force them to fall into China influence whether they like it or not. This is their turning point as they are now realize their in it pretty much alone and starting to force their Horizon program in place.

With growing intention from US to spread their influence to ASEAN, Phillipine starting to have confidence and slowly begin to balance her relation with both Giant nations. This is where US support starting to come in a form of military equipement/munitions and even bold statement to Chinese that if for some reasons Chinese govt ever fire on Phillipine military assets US will activate US-Phillipine treaty/allaince agreement. And China seems to take it seriously by withdrawing their military naval assets abit and replace them with couple of dozens "Fishing vessel" "Parked" close by as a form of intimidation :LOL: . Another smart yet cunning/slick move from them...
 

Gundala

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Which "military naval assets" China withdrew from that region?
Does it matter? If I cited the resource you prolly going to say Western media is @$!#$, so why should I entertaint you? And I have tried to see your perspective but after few conversation its clear to me that talking to you would not contribute much to the discussion. Come back with arguments other then what your govt already put into their propaganda machine then prolly we could make some decent discussion.
 

FPXAllen

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Apple to Orange. The phinoy have a history of fighting 🇪🇸and afterward 🇺🇸. Granted, they lose the fight for independence and remain under 🇺🇸 rule. But those struggle shape their collective mentality that they must fight for something they believe (whatever that is).
That's true, but then again, they had US bases there until 1991 so there weren't any real incentive to build up their own strength. Chinese incursions to their waters and the inability of their armed forces to provide enough deterrent to counter those foreign "fishing boats" have really served as their wake up call.

BTW do you know that there is strong indication that phinoy is a former Wilwatikta (Majapahit) colony❓
Learned something new with this. Thanks.
 

Gary

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From the article:

"On the other hand, Indonesia and Thailand have been becoming noticeably pro-China"

Eh, really? I don't know about Thailand, but us as "pro-China"?
we're economically dependent on China.

or we're already pro China behind closed doors, who knows......
 

Gundala

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"On the other hand, Indonesia and Thailand have been becoming noticeably pro-China"

Eh, really? I don't know about Thailand, but us as "pro-China"?
Our 01 publicly received Chinese made vaccine - Outsider may value the informations as "statement" where we (locally) see it as an answer (statement) for domestic consumption due to the controversi about vaccine safety issues in a first wave of Covid. There are more event that can be translated differently overseas, such as AShM purchase from China, etc. So yeah, it is understandable they have that kind of view. We know better here what behind those events.

If you look closely to Nikkei news it has alot of similariy issues that we all been shared here. And one thing that they miss or maybe unable to verify is the rumour that about their intention to station troops in the region. Singapore, Vietnam & Phillipines are the perfect combination to "surround" SCS. Singapore being the depot where the other two strategically perfect to host troops. It makes sense but again its an unverify rumour. This is prolly why they left out Thailand & Indonesia as we all know they have very small chance to succeed.

I only agree to the statement if its about economic. In security stand point? I dont think so. Here is a quote which I think is showing the reality better here

"Jakarta's warming to Beijing could also face a domestic backlash, as anti-Chinese sentiment in Indonesia has been on the rise. According to the latest annual “State of Southeast Asia” report (PDF), the percentage of Indonesians polled who believe that China is a “revisionist power” jumped from 27 to 42 percent between 2020 and 2021. At the same time, the report also shows Indonesians to be generally optimistic about future relations with China. But they surely do not hold a favorable view of China itself."

Taken from link below, to me its a fair analyze and considering what you and trishna have mentioned about on the ground source of information (Jurnalistik) which might be lacking here to get better view from local perspective, we can simply discount the information presented here and mix it with local perspective.

 

trishna_amrta

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Taken from link below, to me its a fair analyze and considering what you and trishna have mentioned about on the ground source of information (Jurnalistik) which might be lacking here to get better view from local perspective, we can simply discount the information presented here and mix it with local perspective.
I wasn't developing ground source at several countries just for the sake of journalistic purpose. It has always been for "actionable" info.
 

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