Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[FPXAllen]

Most important numbers are TS-2101 to TS-2160

As I understand it, the plan was for us to produce 40 of our version of KF-X / KF-21. I have no idea that the number will be more than that.
Edit: also, if things haven't changed, it will likely be TS-3301 since the designation for our version is F-33

 

[Indos]

Don't know, but I'm curious why there's no "IF-X" word during the launch?

Also, when they arrived in Indonesia, will it be named as IF-21, KF-21 ID or plain KF-21? Tho KF-21 ID for me is quite hilarious...

Because it is for Korean, I believe the prototype that we are going to build later inshaAllah only has IFX code name, not KFX/IFX.

 

[Stuka Dive]

Habibie was against this KFX project to be fair. He believed that Indonesia should just focus on developing the civilian aircraft design & manufacturing capability than jet fighter. The market is a lot bigger (domestic & international) so our chance to get break even and also profit is higher.

Personally, I don't expect much from KFX in terms of our ability to build our own jet fighter. We only pay 20%, of course we'll only get so little. I just hope that it means we only need to spend something like $40 mil per aircraft instead of $65 mil

I believe his opinion was by a high tech base industrialist point of view, in which all the high investment in technology and R&D must be recovered by market sales.

 

[FPXAllen]

If we want to learn about the engine, radar, avionics etc, well the Korean are doing it. Can we learn with the Korean? No.

That's a tall order considering our share is only 20%.
If we really want to learn jet engine production, radar and avionics as well as other related technologies we should start our own project rather than joining the already ongoing ones by other countries.

 

[R4duga]

That's a tall order considering our share is only 20%.
If we really want to learn jet engine production, radar and avionics as well as other related technologies we should start our own project rather than joining the already ongoing ones by other countries.

that's what i mean , what was the agreement in which section indonesia will gain knowledge when first time the contract was signed ? , was it airframe ? or include the whole jeroan ? if indonesia really hoping to gain so much including sensor and avionics form this 20% share , it feels like trying to kill multiple bird with one stone .

PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)

indonesian-aerospace.com

"Dalam strategi pengembangan program KFX/IFX, PTDI akan sangat terbantu terutama dalam hal peningkatan kemampuan teknologi composite aerostructure berupa Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer (CFRP), sesuai dengan Rencana Strategis yang dituangkan dalam RJPP PTDI. Mengingat kecenderungan pasar aerostructure akan didominasi oleh teknologi composite pada tahun 2022 sebesar 74,5%."

korea also aren't mature yet in that field (not belitlling nor questioning their capability) , i mean for the radar , they're still assisted by israeli .

 

[Indos]

That's a tall order considering our share is only 20%.
If we really want to learn jet engine production, radar and avionics as well as other related technologies we should start our own project rather than joining the already ongoing ones by other countries.

The engine should be started from turbo jet engine for cruise missile. I dont know that ITB project is still funded or not ???? I just can see the news in 2015 and that time he said government hasnt disbursed money so he and his team just working on calculation/mathematics during that time

 

[joedhie2k]

 

[Aghost132483]

KF-X launching

 

[Raptor]

The KFX/IFX looks really kool,I hope they integrate cutting edge sensors and make it having situation awareness

 

[FPXAllen]

that's what i mean , what was the agreement in which section indonesia will gain knowledge when first time the contract was signed ? , was it airframe ? or include the whole jeroan ? if indonesia really hoping to gain so much including sensor and avionics form this 20% share , it feels like trying to kill multiple bird with one stone .

PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)

indonesian-aerospace.com

"Dalam strategi pengembangan program KFX/IFX, PTDI akan sangat terbantu terutama dalam hal peningkatan kemampuan teknologi composite aerostructure berupa Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer (CFRP), sesuai dengan Rencana Strategis yang dituangkan dalam RJPP PTDI. Mengingat kecenderungan pasar aerostructure akan didominasi oleh teknologi composite pada tahun 2022 sebesar 74,5%."

korea also aren't mature yet in that field (not belitlling nor questioning their capability) , i mean for the radar , they're still assisted by israeli .

Bold: One-fifth of a stone, even.

Even if we're only granted the rights to produce our own version of KF-21, I think that's already a lot. Especially considering that PTDI's aim is mostly centered around the CFRP composite manufacturing.

As for other hi-tech like airborne radar, avionics and other sensors, like it or not, we're still several steps behind S.Korea that we should aim to catch up by ourself.

 

[FPXAllen]

The engine should be started from turbo jet engine for cruise missile. I dont know that ITB project is still funded or not ???? I just can see the news in 2015 and that time he said government hasnt disbursed money so he and his team just working on calculation/mathematics during that time

Before we're talking about manufacturing turbojet, much less about turbofan, we should ask whether our strategic industries can produce special kind of steel or composite material needed for the turbine blades first.

Since they still can't, our own indigenous jet engine will remains a pipedream.

 

[Soman45]

This could be one of the reasons why Korean still choose us

(News Focus) S. Korea sets milestone with first fighter prototype, but challenges remain | Yonhap News Agency

By Oh Seok-min SEOUL, April 9 (Yonhap) -- Friday's rollout of a prototype of South ...

en.yna.co.kr

There have also been reports that Indonesia is considering purchasing F-15EX jets from Boeing or France's Rafale fighters.

"One of the main reasons for the Seoul government to join hands with Indonesia was to advance into the global market more successfully. If Indonesia withdraws from the project, our exports could suffer a setback," an official said.

During a one-on-one meeting in Seoul this week, South Korean and Indonesian defense ministers agreed that the project "symbolizes mutual trust." But they stopped short of coming up with specific ways on how to resolve the payment issue.

 

[Indos]

Before we're talking about manufacturing turbojet, much less about turbofan, we should ask whether our strategic industries can produce special kind of steel or composite material needed for the turbine blades first.

Since they still can't, our own indigenous jet engine will remains a pipedream.

That is right, but turbojet engine for cruise missile doesnt need high endurance. It is intended for short time duration. This is the start while trying to improve our metalurgy research. Any way, we have such institution in metalurgy research.

 

[Indos]

Just need more fund, I believe a lot can be achieved inshaAllah. Also we need to hire foreign expert as well for our research institution. Pay them alot like UAE does

 

[Indos]

We can use Indonesian connection to do that. My Linkedin connection for instant has Indonesian working in BAE system, still young as well

 

[FPXAllen]

That is right, but turbojet engine for cruise missile doesnt need high endurance. It is intended for short time duration. This is the start while trying to improve our metalurgy research.

I can already see the reactions from overproud Indonesians when we eventually introduce our own small turbojet which intended solely for cruise missile.

As if it's so easy to 'upscale' that mini turbojet to power full scale aircraft...

Any way, we have such institution in metalurgy research.

Good then. But then again, does it receive sufficient amount of fund and other necessary supports?

 

[Indos]

I can already see the reactions from overproud Indonesians when we eventually introduce our own small turbojet which intended solely for cruise missile.

As if it's so easy to 'upscale' that mini turbojet to power full scale aircraft...


Good then. But then again, does it receive sufficient amount of fund and other necessary supports?

We need to start some where right ??? Perjalanan 1000 km dimulai dari langkah pertama

 

[Umigami]

This could be one of the reasons why Korean still choose us

(News Focus) S. Korea sets milestone with first fighter prototype, but challenges remain | Yonhap News Agency

By Oh Seok-min SEOUL, April 9 (Yonhap) -- Friday's rollout of a prototype of South ...

en.yna.co.kr

During a one-on-one meeting in Seoul this week, South Korean and Indonesian defense ministers agreed that the project "symbolizes mutual trust." But they stopped short of coming up with specific ways on how to resolve the payment issue.

This one scared me

 

[Kafkaesque]

That's a tall order considering our share is only 20%.
If we really want to learn jet engine production, radar and avionics as well as other related technologies we should start our own project rather than joining the already ongoing ones by other countries.

That's what I said on my other post(s), albeit on other wordings. I quote my own post:

alternatively, we take the "airframe knowledge", pay the rest of the "obligation" (2 billion in exchange of knowing how to built an aircrafts body is still acceptable), then go on our way. Open negotiation with the others (France, or even the US) to provide us with the necessary tech.

However, there are other points:

(1) MAYBE, that's the reason we (the government) were talking about walking out of the project. We realized that this project is not enough and we even negotiated to have less share.

I mean, from all information I have (I admit I just know what is published on open source), to learn about:

building the airframe, it costs us 1.6 billions USD + 100+ engineers from PT DI for about 6 years (?) - working hours.

Maybe, the government think that it is a bit too expensive. I actually think it is a bit too expensive, but not too much and nasi sudah jadi bubur.

(2) Assuming that we now realized that this project alone is not enough, we have to take steps to mitigate the shortcomings. These steps should be taken years ago, but well, better late then never.

There are rumors that one of the points in Prabowo - French discussion is about French assistance in developing jet engine. So there is that. But what about radar, sensor, avionics etc?

According to @indo :

There is plan to incorporate LEN, Info Global, and other and make comprehensive road map on jet fighter technology. We need to get Government support. Mindef has agreed on that comprehensive plan in principal.

There is still time, and I hope all these plans will be executed soon and go smoothly.

 

[Indos]

That's what I said on my other post(s), albeit on other wordings. I quote my own post:


However, there are other points:

(1) MAYBE, that's the reason we (the government) were talking about walking out of the project. We realized that this project is not enough and we even negotiated to have less share.

I mean, from all information I have (I admit I just know what is published on open source), to learn about:

building the airframe, it costs us 1.6 billions USD + 100+ engineers from PT DI for about 6 years (?) - working hours.

Maybe, the government think that it is a bit too expensive. I actually think it is a bit too expensive, but not too much and nasi sudah jadi bubur.

(2) Assuming that we now realized that this project alone is not enough, we have to take steps to mitigate the shortcomings. These steps should be taken years ago, but well, better late then never.

There are rumors that one of the points in Prabowo - French discussion is about French assistance in developing jet engine. So there is that. But what about radar, sensor, avionics etc?

According to @indo :



There is still time, and I hope all these plans will be executed soon and go smoothly.

Man, TOT Rafale is mostly nothing, believe me. Just give the detail if it is true.

My statement doesnt have anything to do with Rafale