Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[FPXAllen]

View attachment 32932

Bandwidth killer

Ah bwk. I've forgotten how long it was since the last time I read that warning...

By the way, is that ILSV?

 

[FPXAllen]

I believe it just only a par with F/A 18 E/F block 3

The difference is that while the current form of KF21 is on par with F/A-18E/F block 3, the latter is 1970's design much like F-15 and F-16. They still can be upgraded but their basic designs will remain 4th gen.

KF21 has a potential to be developed further into a proper 5th gen.

 

[Indos]

I Wonder how much the axe cost.


I believe it just only a par with F/A 18 E/F block 3.

Its been a while since we heard if already resend their engineer to .
Until today we hear no news, and yet the plane had conduct it's maiden flight.

There is indeed a secured link between DI and KAI, and you have read the document about the work for KF21 during their coming back home. The works are not much since majority of design have been completed before they come back to Indonesia. The design work conducted in DI during 2020 in majority for tandem prototype. CDR meeting was in September 2019. Some parts for prototype 1,2, and 6 are also made in DI.

The engineers have started coming back gradually, and look like coming from production division. Around 32 have been in Korea and it will be around 100 in the end of 2021 inshaALLAH

'KF-21 공동개발' 인도네시아 기술진 30명, 한국으로 출발(종합)

작년 3월 철수 후 복귀…분담금 7천억 연체, 재협상 곧 재개

www.mk.co.kr

 

[Indos]

This is comparison with F 18 block 3 made by Korean member in PDF @dr.knowhow

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Think of cheaper F-18 E/F Super Hornet with a bit of reduced RCS. Nothing special.

I'm not so sure if it's really going to be cheaper since the Block 3 Super Bugs are around $50 million a piece flyaway. KF-21 is aimed to be something around $60 million flyaway. I would say more capable since it's got its weight saved from not being a ship-borne aircraft like Super Bug and probably has better kinematic capabilities, since better T/W ratio and more advance flight control model (uses the same on to the F-35, the NLDI model). Add to that the external design like serpentine ducts or planform alignment for reduced radar signature and IRST which the SH doesn't have, although sure, the SH also has some RO design features like planform alignment of its tails and intake or radar blockers in front of each engines. SH also has a higher internal fuel capacity.

Apart from that it's really a fighter jet that makes sense because its made by Koreans for Koreans. Probably costs less when counting the procurement costs compared to when procuring foreign fighter jets or potentially less life-cycle costs as well. Ease of maintenance (ROKAF receives parts for FA-50 in average within 30 days, compared to 200~300 days on average for KF-16s and F-15Ks depending on which part which even goes as far as 500 days or more in some cases) and also freedom to do whatever ROKAF wants with the aircraft helps as well, starting from simple maintenance to weapons integration and as far as modification or development of a new variant. US once got really pissed because they "suspected" that the Koreans tried to repair Tiger Eye IRSTs on F-15Ks by themselves. Remember, not found out but suspected. In the end they've found no evidence but put more restrictions regarding the maintenance of US made parts. No need to worry about those stuff concerning KF-21.

Problem is those merits mostly not apply for KF-21's potential customers. They would probably need to buy it for higher procurement costs compared to ROKAF. Parts delivery would take longer than for ROKAF and maintenance would be restricted in the same way some of the sensitive maintenance work of US made fighters in ROKAF are restricted. They would have no source codes for the mission computer and obviously wouldn't be able to modify anything unless agreed with Korea.

That's why I still think it's worth it while staying pessimistic about its success in sales overseas.

 

[FPXAllen]

US once got really pissed because they "suspected" that the Koreans tried to repair Tiger Eye IRSTs on F-15Ks by themselves. Remember, not found out but suspected. In the end they've found no evidence but put more restrictions regarding the maintenance of US made parts. No need to worry about those stuff concerning KF-21.

Err, if such component in KF-21 is still sourced from US, the same restriction will still be there, no?

 

[Indos]

Err, if such component in KF-21 is still sourced from US, the same restriction will still be there, no?

The avionics have been made by Korean. Engine will be F 414 from GE, but GE and DI have long and deep relationship to one another. CN 235 engine is made by GE and DI through PT Nusantara Turbin can do maintenance on the engine. DI and GE also has made a JV company.

From what is stated in media, it is very clear that Indonesia will have much freedom in the system integration with capability to do upgrade by ourselves and this is also why we get 1 prototype to be own by PTDI. The testing is also conducted by DI for that prototype so it shows DI has access to the avionics system of the plane.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

There is indeed a secured link between DI and KAI,

The payment, stock share, knowledge transfer, 5 key techs, etc. etc.

Is it done deal or any ? Since it's never surfaced again.

Eventhough SOE that work with KFX has many potential parnership & so on, I have big doubt DI capable to fully produce the fighter before 2030.

If any, the thing I consider so much is towards DI company structure, and DI consistency in this program (i know not everyone satisfied with KF 21 spec) if they would spread their wing wider.

Not an EZ task at all

 

[Indos]

The payment, stock share, knowledge transfer, 5 key techs, etc. etc.

Is it done deal or any ? Since it's never surfaced again.

Eventhough SOE that work with KFX has many potential parnership & so on, I have big doubt DI capable to fully produce the fighter before 2030.

If any, the thing I consider so much is towards DI company structure, and DI consistency in this program (i know not everyone satisfied with KF 21 spec) if they would spread their wing wider.

Not an EZ task at all

Renegotiation is in pending currently where Pandemic is stated as a reason. No revelation will likely to happen until renegotiation is finally completed inshaAllah.

Financially, Indonesia Today has been in much better situation compared to the period of 2018-2020. The fear of currency crush that can sake financial stability look like become the reason in this economic focused administration to renegotiate and stop the funding since 2018. Any way, 2018 is also just 1 and half year before Presidential Election, Jokowi doesnt want to see Rupiah huge depreciation and exceeding 15.000 per USD in 2019, this can damage his image during the campaign and election time. This is my analysist over the reason of that renegotiation.

Despite only suffer around 8 billion USD trade deficit in 2018, Rupiah has crossed 15.000 per USD at one month. As we know Indonesian economic team has traumatic memory on Asian Financial Crisis moment.

Current situation is in reverse despite we are still struggling with Covid 19 pandemic. We have trade surplus since 2020 and this year the surplus is getting bigger YoY, the situation look like coming back into SBY period where commodities price are high and will likely create another economic boom for Indonesia.

As I stated in my previous post, energy crisis in Europe and China and the opposite situation in Indonesia where we have surplus electricity production in Java with coal price set at maximum 70 USD per ton (compared with 200 USD per ton in international market) shows huge opportunity for Indonesia economy to have strong growth for the next 1-3 years and beyond. Even WB has stated the potency for Indonesia economy to reach growth until 8-9 percent is exist for Indonesia beyond 2023 if government sets correct policy.

 

[NEKO]

The KFX/IFX' s fighter's abilities are designed to be more advanced than the U.S.-built Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon jet aircraft.

It can.

The block 3 projected to be full fledged 5th gen fighter right?

I believe so.

happy TNI anniversary.

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View attachment 32930

Lha piye to boeing? F15EX is a go or no for Indonesia?

and yet the plane had conduct it's maiden flight.

Wat?

 

[NEKO]

we have surplus electricity production in Java

Really? I guess when my place got blackout it caused by the transmission lines or maintenance.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Renegotiation is in pending currently where Pandemic is stated as a reason. No revelation will likely to happen until renegotiation is finally completed inshaAllah.

Financially, Indonesia Today has been in much better situation compared to the period of 2018-2020. The fear of currency crush that can sake financial stability look like become the reason in this economic focused administration to renegotiate and stop the funding since 2018. Any way, 2018 is also just 1 and half year before Presidential Election, Jokowi doesnt want to see Rupiah huge depreciation and exceeding 15.000 per USD in 2019, this can damage his image during the campaign and election time. This is my analysist over the reason of that renegotiation.

Despite only suffer around 8 billion USD trade deficit in 2018, Rupiah has crossed 15.000 per USD at one month. As we know Indonesian economic team has traumatic memory on Asian Financial Crisis moment.

Current situation is in reverse despite we are still struggling with Covid 19 pandemic. We have trade surplus since 2020 and this year the surplus is getting bigger YoY, the situation look like coming back into SBY period where commodities price are high and will likely create another economic boom for Indonesia.

As I stated in my previous post, energy crisis in Europe and China and the opposite situation in Indonesia where we have surplus electricity production in Java with coal price set at maximum 70 USD per ton (compared with 200 USD per ton in international market) shows huge opportunity for Indonesia economy to have strong growth for the next 1-3 years and beyond. Even WB has stated the potency for Indonesia economy to reach growth until 8-9 percent is exist for Indonesia beyond 2023 if government sets correct policy.

No comment, until next official news released. Hope the best for the program.

Wat?

The bird, isn't flying yet my deares @NEKO , puss puss

 

[Indos]

Really? I guess when my place got blackout it caused by the transmission lines or maintenance.

Yup, huge surplus in Java but we have to keep pace with power plants investment in areas like Sulawesi with so many smelters projects there.

Transmission problem and maintenance is likely a cause in Java if sudden or periodic blackout happen

 

[NEKO]

We should also have a plan to make aircraft ordnance to be used on KFX, do it alone or with SK.

The bird, isn't flying yet my deares @NEKO , puss puss

Spoiler: Sure bro

 

[Van Kravchenko]

We should also have a plan to make aircraft ordnance to be used on KFX, do it alone or with SK.

Spoiler: Sure bro

sure, we have plenty dumb bomb from PT. DANA


oh, and again. I condemnd that pict.
I DEMAND A NEKO PICT INSTEAD !!

Or perhaps you should make an Instagram account to counter canteen guard and students

 

[Lordimperator]

canteen guard and students

Pussycat must prevail against those two

 

[Umigami]

sure, we have plenty dumb bomb from PT. DANA


oh, and again. I condemnd that pict.
I DEMAND A NEKO PICT INSTEAD !!

Or perhaps you should make an Instagram account to counter canteen guard and students

Student already "dead"

 

[NEKO]

sure, we have plenty dumb bomb from PT. DANA

Dumb bomb, and maybe smart bomb for now.
Btw am I asking too much if we develop AGM?

 

[NEKO]

Pussycat must prevail against those two

Student already "dead"

I request other Indonesian member here to be selective about reposting content from those kind of "information provider", like the last time during Nanggala incident there are irresponsible people claiming that Nanggala is fine and communication have been established but can't resurface for a while because of some technical problem, or something like that.

 

[Stuka Dive]

The avionics have been made by Korean. Engine will be F 414 from GE, but GE and DI have long and deep relationship to one another. CN 235 engine is made by GE and DI through PT Nusantara Turbin can do maintenance on the engine. DI and GE also has made a JV company.

From what is stated in media, it is very clear that Indonesia will have much freedom in the system integration with capability to do upgrade by ourselves and this is also why we get 1 prototype to be own by PTDI. The testing is also conducted by DI for that prototype so it shows DI has access to the avionics system of the plane.

JV between GE and NTP? you mean PT. GENTS? as i remember correctly, since first time I joined as gas turbine overhaul engineer apprentice in 1999 at NTP, GENTS only did GE industrial gas turbines, not for aero engines.

At that time, NTP still has over 400 skilled employee. even though IMF had crushed PTDI business.
After left NTP and went back for several occasions as another company's reps to upgraded test cells for its industrial gas turbines engine division, I found very quiet workplace.

Last time I went there around 5-6 years ago, and the employee numbers only remains half of it in 1999. Most of them will enter their retirement periods. Had chats with some of old colleagues there, the NTP's business was not that shining as in the past. I wonder where the signs of this company able to make gas turbine propulsions.

Seems like this company deliberately being neglected and dying. No significant regeneration of skilled workers. Slowly but surely, one by one, all people gone as they are retired. The local competitor, GMF, looks much expand now compare to NTP.

Well, it's 5-6 years ago. I didn't updating anymore. If NTP been radically revitalized by government in recent years, maybe it shining back.
Afaik, NTP only MRO workshop, not engine manufacturer. Still can recall all the corners of its facilities. None of them were production facilities.

 

[FPXAllen]

Dumb bomb, and maybe smart bomb for now.
Btw am I asking too much if we develop AGM?

I believe it's still within our immediate reach if we start by licensing Cirit or similar add on guidance kits for our FFAR.
They're still count as air to ground missile although they can also be fitted into ground vehicle.