Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Philip the Arab]

Not only that, UAE and Saudi will likely not buy F 35 by seeing how Biden administration acts recently. Despite KFX still has US technology like engine but the weapons are already European and Korean and the OEM is not US company, so it may be seen as alternative by Gulf nations (Saudi/UAE/Bahrain/Qatar).

They could still be able to buy KFX due to the fact they are part of US allies in the Middle East, but they would avoid buying F35 that could be over sensitive for Democrats. They dont want to be caught buying F35 during Republican party administration and end up cannot buy additional missiles during Democrats rule.

Also, KFX would allow UAE to integrate their missiles manufactured in country. Korea is very close to the UAE as well politically, and in defence matters.

 

[Indos]

Also, KFX would allow UAE to integrate their missiles manufactured in country. Korea is very close to the UAE as well politically, and in defence matters.

Yup, this is why I see the project is promising due to recent Biden administration behavior toward Saudi and UAE. I think Indonesia investment can come back intact inshaAllah if we are going to continue this program. Not to mention CEBR projection on Indonesia economy to reach 4 trillion USD (nominal) in 2035.

 

[Indos]

I put this 2016 information from Indonesia Defense Ministry official website to understand about the project further and about Indonesian contribution on the program. This is also important since there is disinformation going on to jeopardize the cooperation between the two countries.

In 2015 Korea and Indonesia has reached the agreement about work sharing and other so the information being put here is still up to date since the information is based on the 2015 deal that start the second phase of KFX/IFX program which is manufacturing phase after first phase, technology development phase, that started in 2011.



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Google Translate

Korea Indonesia KFX / IFX Combat Aircraft Project
Monday, May 2, 2016

The development project of a 4.5 generation advanced fighter aircraft called KFX / IFX, which is being carried out by South Korea and Indonesia, has officially started in recent months. Indonesia, which bears 20% of the development fund, has also prepared infrastructure and human resources to support the success of this biggest Indonesian military project. Then what has Indonesia prepared?

The first thing that has been prepared by the Indonesian government is to build facilities to support this project in the future. The facilities under construction are a special hangar for the composing hangar facility, titanium hangar, production hangar, and hangar for the final assembly of this fighter aircraft in Bandung, West Java. This particular hangar is located in the area of PT Dirgantara Indonesia, and is almost complete.

In this special facility for the KFX / IFX project, it will be used by the Indonesian side for the purposes of this project. Indonesia itself is reportedly going to get a share to make a number of important components of this sophisticated fighter. Among them are the wing, tail and wing reinforcement components of this fighter.

In addition, it is also reported that in this facility, one of the IFX fighter prototypes will also be built which will become part of Indonesia. As we all know that in this KFX / IFX project, 6 prototypes will be built which will undergo a series of flight tests. One of these 6 prototypes will belong to Indonesia. Apart from the 6 prototypes, there will be 2 other prototypes to be built which will not be tested but will undergo a series of aircraft structural tests. The KFX / IFX fighter prototype to be produced in Indonesia is the fifth prototype, and will be a fully carried out test flight aircraft in Indonesia.

Design KFX / IFX C-103 Conventional Wing Dual Engine

Not only preparing for infrastructure, Indonesia has also started preparing my human resources since a few years ago to support this modern fighter development project. The Indonesian government and PT Dirgantara Indonesia are reported to have prepared around 200 to 300 experts to be involved in this mega project of the Indonesian military . However, a large number of experts will come to South Korea gradually over the next 10 years. However, there are also experts who will be involved for 10 years from the start.

Some of the experts from Indonesia themselves will be sent to school abroad, especially to European countries to sharpen their knowledge, before being directly involved in this project. The additional knowledge they get from European countries is expected to be of additional positive value for the development of Indonesian combat aircraft in the future.

The number of Indonesian experts involved in the second phase, known as the Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase, was far more than the first phase (Technical Development Phase), which only amounted to 52 at that time. The first phase (Technical Development Phase) itself lasted 18 months from 2011 to 2012. Meanwhile, the second phase (EMD) will last for 10 years, involving 200-300 Indonesian experts.

Not only aerospace experts, the Indonesian military has also prepared several pilots from the Indonesian Air Force as test pilots for this fighter aircraft later. It is reported that 5 test pilots have been prepared for this KFX / IFX fighter later. The five pilots are reported to have qualified and had sufficient flight hours with the KT-1B Wongbee and T-50i Golden Eagle trainers.

Not only that, the five candidates for the KFX / IFX fighter pilot test have also been specially assigned to S1 Aviation Engineering - Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB). This is done so that the five prospective test pilots are also equipped with adequate aviation knowledge in addition to the ability to be fighter pilots.

This considerable preparation is expected to be a step towards the success of the KFX / IFX fighter aircraft development project which in the future is expected to become the foundation of the TNI's defense equipment, especially for Indonesian combat aircraft in the future. Although this fighter plane is not purely an Indonesian-made fighter, Indonesia has high hopes for the success of this project.

But of course all these preparations do not guarantee that this project will run smoothly and smoothly. Of course there will be many obstacles and obstacles that will still be faced, but at least all the preparations that have been carried out are a good first step. We cannot confirm the success or failure of this mega project of the Indonesian military and only time will tell.

Badan Pendidikan dan Pelatihan Kemhan RI

www.kemhan.go.id

​

 

[Umigami]

Also, KFX would allow UAE to integrate their missiles manufactured in country. Korea is very close to the UAE as well politically, and in defence matters.

Go ahead, take it over from us.

The number of Indonesian experts involved in the second phase, known as the Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase, was far more than the first phase (Technical Development Phase), which only amounted to 52 at that time. The first phase (Technical Development Phase) itself lasted 18 months from 2011 to 2012. Meanwhile, the second phase (EMD) will last for 10 years, involving 200-300 Indonesian experts.

Nope, I don't think it's up to date.
How many of our engineers still doing EMD at KAI right now?

Seems like you know so much about this project, then I'll ask you...
Which parts are designed by our engineers actually?
Are those parts already produced by us locally and installed in those prototypes?
IF our work share critical, why are those korean able to continue this program on schedule without any major problems?

 

[Indos]

Go ahead, take it over from us.

Nope, I don't think it's up to date.
How many of our engineers still doing EMD at KAI right now?

Seems like you know so much about this project, then I'll ask you...
Which parts are designed by our engineers actually?
Are those parts already produced by us locally and installed in those prototypes?
IF our work share critical, why are those korean able to continue this program on schedule without any major problems?

You do have comprehension problem dont you ? I dont want to repeat my writing and post again, go read my previous post and remembered what I have explained in PDF as well.

I will explain what is necessary to avoid further disinformation.

Of course the news was made in 2016, did you even check the date ??? That was the deal I put it there. You should have understood the bottom line of why I put those information.

As of 2019 July it was 114 Indonesian engineers contributing and the number will keep increasing. It is like happening during the process where in first phase of development there are 52 experts, and then increase into 74 in 2017 and in 2019 it was 114. Design phase has also already been completed in the end of 2019, in March 2020 they have gone back to Indonesia and waiting for renegotiation result.

---------------------------------------

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.

Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...

en.yna.co.kr

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All of the manufacturing is centered in Korea right now, for Indonesian part we should start from 5 or 6 prototype that will be manufactured in Indonesian Aerospace. (Under circumstance we continue the program)

 

[Parry Brima]

Also, KFX would allow UAE to integrate their missiles manufactured in country. Korea is very close to the UAE as well politically, and in defence matters.

I really hope UAE will be involved in KFX program in one way or another so they can hire another badass Hollywood action star as the brand ambassador just like this fella here

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364244879467900935

 

[Umigami]

You do have comprehension problem dont you ? I dont want to repeat my writing and post again, go read my previous post and remembered what I have explained in PDF as well.

I will explain what is necessary to avoid further disinformation.

Of course the news was made in 2016, did you even check the date ??? That was the deal I put it there. You should have understood the bottom line of why I put those information.

As of 2019 July it was 114 Indonesian engineers contributing and the number will keep increasing. It is like happening during the process where in first phase of development there are 52 experts, and then increase into 74 in 2017 and in 2019 it was 114. Design phase has also already been completed in the end of 2019, in March 2020 they have gone back to Indonesia and waiting for renegotiation result.

---------------------------------------

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.

Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...

en.yna.co.kr

----------------------------------------------

All of the manufacturing is centered in Korea right now, for Indonesian part we should start from 5 or 6 prototype that will be manufactured in Indonesian Aerospace. (Under circumstance we continue the program)

Which part we design and produce then?

 

[reashot_xigwin]

Which part we design and produce then?

Most likely airframe like wingtips and whatever the back wings are called.

 

[Indos]

Which part we design and produce then?

ADD Korea and Indonesia design the basic design since 2011 and produce C 103 design, and then 2016 comes KAI and LM, the basic design is completed in July 2018 where the base is C103 design made by ADD Korea and Indonesian team (PTDI and ITB) before KAI and LM join.

Part design (fuselage) is being made in July 2018 until September 2019. I dont have any knowledge about specific part we design, it is a collaborative work with KAI. While the part that we are going to produce is similar with 20 % of our investment. We can compare later the fuselage we make in CN 235 program (50:50) with KFX/IFX program (80:20).

There is plan and attempt to use InfoGlobal avionics as well, but I dont know for sure about it. You can check on Info Global website where they are talking about that.

 

[Indos]

The vibe I get from KF-X/IF-X project is that a beggar wants to pick and choose even though he doesn't have a choice.

We are not beggar, but I admit Jokowi is greedy, even he doesnt pay huge government debt on our state owned companies and only paid little in 2020 after our State owned ministry asked him publicly


Indonesia can possibly buy IFX in hundreds

Macroeconomic forecasting - CEBR

Accurate and timely UK and global forecasts.

cebr.com

Vietnam to become world’s 19th largest economy by 2035: CEBR

m.hanoitimes.vn

Our State owned company Minister ask government to pay around 9 billion USD of its debt on SOE in 2020

It is despite we have huge stimulus budget since 2020

 

[Basith90]

Credit via Lembaga Keris, Sukhoi engine re (import) via Ukraine

View attachment 15378 View attachment 15379 View attachment 15380 View attachment 15381 View attachment 15382

Mother Rusia Really Setronkss

 

[adenl]

We are not beggar, but I admit Jokowi is greedy, even he doesnt pay huge government debt on our state owned companies and only paid little in 2020 after our State owned ministry asked him publicly

I am not referring to the financial issue, but to the technological one. This project will propel Indonesian aerospace sector to higher levels, something which it can't do by its own. We are talking here about a 4.75-5th gen fighter which is the most advanced tech in all of the aerospace industry in the world. IMO Indonesia cannot afford to play hard to get with South-Korea, especially as they can go ahead with the project by themselves fine without relying on Indonesian participation.

Some Indonesian forum members are too chauvinistic to see the obvious, and instead of acting with humility they act as if they call all the shots in this joint project.

 

[Gary]

Guys, If there are post you deem disturbing or degrading, please ignore him/her, report and the moderators will take action.

thanks

 

[Gary]

actually if we have any shame left, we would have paid our shares or retreat from the program.

this administration didn't show much attention for strategic arms industry and purchase I must admit.

the Republic of Korea can off course build the jets with or without our participation, I hope whomever involved in the Indonesian side realized this and stop the dilly dallying with payments.

 

[Nilgiri]

A reminder not to use ad-hominem against countries please...even if the intent is different in your head. Please think of word connotations and misunderstanding from it.

Also members should avoid counter-ad hominem, just report the post.

 

[Umigami]

Mother Rusia Really Setronkss

I heard Russian aren't happy Ukrainian do the maintenance.

 

[Parry Brima]

I am not referring to the financial issue, but to the technological one. This project will propel Indonesian aerospace sector to higher levels, something which it can't do by its own. We are talking here about a 4.75-5th gen fighter which is the most advanced tech in all of the aerospace industry in the world. IMO Indonesia cannot afford to play hard to get with South-Korea, especially as they can go ahead with the project by themselves fine without relying on Indonesian participation.

I don't think Indonesia have been playing hard to get with South Korea. In fact I think Indonesia really want out. The problem is that they don't want to get fined and they want their money back.

After the talk with Dassault I think Indonesia started to realize that there's much better fighter ToT offer on the table from France than what the Koreans can afford to offer.

Like you said, it's not about money. It's about the opportunities to get the technologies.

 

[adenl]

After the talk with Dassault I think Indonesia started to realize that there's much better fighter ToT offer on the table from France than what the Koreans can afford to offer.

I am having a hard time believing this. Whatever French ToT there is (especially for the much quoted 36 jets), the Indonesian Rafales will not be able to compete by 2030 when 5th gen fighter platforms are starting to become a standard even in South-East Asia and Australia.

A 4.75-5th gen fighter tech is much more valuable and will have a longer life span than 4.5th gen technology. And in light of indigenous development, the KF-X is the best option for Indonesia in this decade. If it were up to me, I would negotiate an even larger share of the KF-X program up to 40-50% and try to get as much co-development and co-production of every part of the KF-X possible.

 

[Parry Brima]

I am having a hard time believing this. Whatever French ToT there is (especially for the much quoted 36 jets), the Indonesian Rafales will not be able to compete by 2030 when 5th gen fighter platforms are starting to become a standard even in South-East Asia and Australia.

A 4.75-5th gen fighter tech is much more valuable and will have a longer life span than 4.5th gen technology. And in light of indigenous development, the KF-X is the best option for Indonesia in this decade. If it were up to me, I would negotiate an even larger share of the KF-X program up to 40-50% and try to get as much co-development and co-production of every part of the KF-X possible.

The issue here is not about 4.5th gen vs 5th gen but more on the how much the Koreans are willing to give vs the French. Our Turkish friends were interested to be part of KFX once and asked for larger share but the Koreans denied them.

Again, it's not about the money, but about the limited opportunities to get fighter ToT from the Koreans.

I've been quoting this article from Korea JoongAng Daily twice already, and now for the 3rd time I'm quoting this :

"The offers put out by France, which one Korean defense industry source said included a much larger transfer of fighter jet technologies, has enticed Indonesia, and according to French publication La Tribune, the two countries are close to a deal."

Indonesia appears likely to withdraw from joint fighter jet project

Korea’s ambitious indigenous fighter jet project may end up costing taxpayers much more than they bargained for, as its partner Indonesia toys with pulling out from the program altogether.

koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

 

[Umigami]

I am having a hard time believing this. Whatever French ToT there is (especially for the much quoted 36 jets), the Indonesian Rafales will not be able to compete by 2030 when 5th gen fighter platforms are starting to become a standard even in South-East Asia and Australia.

A 4.75-5th gen fighter tech is much more valuable and will have a longer life span than 4.5th gen technology. And in light of indigenous development, the KF-X is the best option for Indonesia in this decade. If it were up to me, I would negotiate an even larger share of the KF-X program up to 40-50% and try to get as much co-development and co-production of every part of the KF-X possible.

Larger share: that's not gonna happen, korean want to be the one who lead the program.

What's your argument that KFX is better than Rafale?
Korea is a newbie in fighter design, and French don't have any desire to buy 5th gen fighter means they confidence enough with their Rafale platform and will never EVER let it out of date.