Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[wekiweko]

in the current state? of course not. but do you really think if we buy f-35 we'll be just getting the plane and be done within a year? absolutely not! the process will take decades and it will give us enough time to prepare all the necessary infrastructure as well as training for the pilot. don't buy LM idea that we need their shitty viper to bridge us for the 5th gen aircraft lol.

on this subject, I believe once we prove that we can and able to maintain and operate 4.5 platform like Rafale or Eagle EX, the argument that we need "bridging" platform will no longer applicable and in the event we receive further rejection, then it is clear that diplomatic stance is indeed the main consideration for them to refuse selling us F-35

 

[chiphocks]

Let's see now.

F-5E Tiger II (light fighter, daylight):
Max Speed: Mach 1.63
Cruise Speed: Mach 0.8
Range: 890 km (clean).

F-15EX Eagle II:
Max Speed: Mach 2.4 - 2.5
Cruise Speed: Mach 0.85, supercruise (approximately Mach 1.1) possible with reduced external weapon load.
Range: 1272 km (full combat load, internal fuel).

Rafale:
Max Speed: Mach 1.8
Cruise Speed: Supercruise (Mach 1.4) capable with reduced external weapon load.
Range: 780 - 1650 km (combat load, internal fuel).

You lost me there when you mentioned F-5 as air superiority fighter.

what is it then? Interceptor? light fighter?

So no need for network centric supporting ground infrastructure then And that infrastructure also need preliminary infrastructure to operate such as availability of bandwidth and power (electricity). So far, we have neither of those. And it's extremely unlikely we will have the preliminary infrastructure within the next 10 years. And just FYI, we currently do not have the necessary infrastructure to even properly operate a major commercial data centre. And you're dreaming for operating F-35

And all those infrastructures going to need skilled operator & worker to deploy, run & maintain. Care to tell where we can find such human resources


EXACTLY, all the more reason to procure Su-35 or jump to Su-57 for regional deterrence effect (efek menggentarkan kawasan)

what part of my word that said that i was dreaming about the F35??

about those network centric, ground support and bla bla bla
that is why i call Rafale more costly, excample : New Missiles

EXACTLY, all the more reason to procure Su-35 or jump to Su-57 for regional deterrence effect (efek menggentarkan kawasan)

you guys keep mentioning about SU-35 and SU-57...
you might wanna go back and read my comments again and see what i'm trying to say

 

[FPXAllen]

what is it then? Interceptor? light fighter?

F-5 Tiger project was started as a private venture from Northrop company to create a daylight only light fighter with an emphasis on the affordability for export customers. It's not an "air superiority" fighter due to its limited speed and range as well as limited weapon load of - then - just two short-range air to air missiles in addition of its internal two 20 mm cannons.

After a series of improvement and upgrades, the F-5E version also became capable to perform light ground attack duties making it into a multirole light fighter in the same class as Hawk Mk. 209.

 

[trishna_amrta]

about those network centric, ground support and bla bla bla
that is why i call Rafale more costly, excample : New Missiles

So F-35 doesn't need specialized infrastructure then No need of specialized infrastructure for these (video below) ;

And also no need for loitering ammunition and unmanned system either All its need is a good amount of prayer isn't

Which one is more expensive

Something like this :

or something like this :

 

[Madokafc]

So F-35 doesn't need specialized infrastructure then No need of specialized infrastructure for these (video below) ;

And also no need for loitering ammunition and unmanned system either All its need is a good amount of prayer isn't

Which one is more expensive

Something like this :

or something like this :

To have something like Australian vision and already had you need long term commitment (politically and funding)

My take, even those Sheikh countries from middle east is not reliance to the prayer solution instead going full pragmatic and embarked a long journey of modernization (With the risk of being called as Antek Meneer)

 

[trishna_amrta]

To have something like Australian vision and already had you need long term commitment (politically and funding)

My points was, the F-35 is a part of a system of a system. As the DARPA video clearly implying how the F-35 is use more as a Forward Controller rather than a standalone system. Investing in F-35 mean we also need to invest in other part of that system, including all their supporting infrastructures. I mean, for goodnes’s sake, we don't even have proper infrastructure for a major commercial data centre, and all of a sudden we're talking about operating F-35 that require similar ground infrastructure, but with additional redundancy and more complex

 

[Van Kravchenko]

My points was, the F-35 is a part of a system of a system. As the DARPA video clearly implying how the F-35 is use more as a Forward Controller rather than a standalone system. Investing in F-35 mean we also need to invest in other part of that system, including all their supporting infrastructures. I mean, for goodnes’s sake, we don't even have proper infrastructure for a major commercial data centre, and all of a sudden we're talking about operating F-35 that require similar ground infrastructure, but with additional redundancy and more complex

I hope you're still full of patient explaining F 35.

Well, most of the reader and public mindset consider F 35 not far different from F 16 because its a jet plane, single engie, and can fire missile.

, IMHO, one should know having F 35 without proper infrastrure can be analogue as having Luxury Ultra Speed Computer equiped by Ball mouse and CRT monitor, and the keyboard wether gone or broken.

 

[Gundala]

I hope you're still full of patient explaining F 35.

Well, most of the reader and public mindset consider F 35 not far different from F 16 because its a jet plane, single engie, and can fire missile.

, IMHO, one should know having F 35 without proper infrastrure can be analogue as having Luxury Ultra Speed Computer equiped by Ball mouse and CRT monitor, and the keyboard wether gone or broken.

lol yea (bold line), perhaps this old 2019 news below can give some lights

Lockheed Martin F-35 sends target data to US Army missile control​

By Garrett Reim8 August 2019

Lockheed Martin and the US Air Force (USAF) integrated the F-35 Lightning II’s target tracking data with the US Army’s Integrated Air and Missile Defense (IAMD) Battle Command System (IBCS), an important milestone for the stealth aircraft's ability to act as an elevated sensor.

The demonstration of the integration was done during a recent Orange Flag Evaluation in Palmdale, California and Fort Bliss, Texas, says Lockheed Martin. This was the first time that live F-35 tracking data was sent to IBCS via an F-35 ground station and F-35-IBCS adaptation kit, which were developed by Lockheed Martin, says the company.

“This demonstration represents a significant growth in capability for the Army IAMD programme and Army for multi-domain operations. The capability creates additional battle-space awareness, and the ability to track incoming targets and take action, if necessary,” says Scott Arnold, vice-president and deputy of integrated air and missile defense at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control. “The F-35, with its advanced sensors and connectivity, is able to gather and seamlessly share critical information enabling greater joint force protection and a higher level of lethality of Army IAMD forces.”

Credit: USAF

The US Army aims to develop air and missile defence systems that can gather data from multiple sources, including aircraft. Adding the F-35 is seen as a major boost to that effort because the stealthy aircraft may be able to locate targets far beyond the sight of ground units without being observed by an enemy’s anti-aircraft defences.

The F-35 is increasingly seen by the US military as a valuable intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance vehicle due to its suite of powerful sensors. In 2016, the F-35 and the US Navy’s Aegis Combat System, a ship-based command and control system, successfully demonstrated integration.

The F-35 ground station has been relocated to White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico, for further integration and developmental testing, says Lockheed Martin.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...ata-to-us-army-missile-control/133826.article

 

[Zuko]

I hope you're still full of patient explaining F 35.

Well, most of the reader and public mindset consider F 35 not far different from F 16 because its a jet plane, single engie, and can fire missile.

, IMHO, one should know having F 35 without proper infrastruture can be analogue as having Luxury Ultra Speed Computer equiped by Ball mouse and CRT monitor, and the keyboard wether gone or broken.

Found this interesting video that explain USAF doctrine on controlling different fight domains and hence the move toward interconnectedness of fighting equipments, including fighters.

Understand our MoD also looking at "Network Centric" model, however all this talks about different fighters types that we intend to buy make me doubt that we consistent in implementing the idea of Network Centric....Hope I am wrong..

 

[trishna_amrta]

Found this interesting video that explain USAF doctrine on controlling different fight domains and hence the move toward interconnectedness of fighting equipments, including fighters.

Understand our MoD also looking at "Network Centric" model, however all this talks about different fighters types that we intend to buy make me doubt that we consistent in implementing the idea of Network Centric....Hope I am wrong..

The operative term is "Multi-Domain". Here is a short video of it, hopefully it easy to digest

Although there are plenty of videos in Youtube from of US military establishment explaining in detail, but I deem such videos would be too long for most of you guys here, not to mention they have no subtitle translation thus making it more difficult for most of you guys here.

 

[Mandala]

Defense Secretary Lobby to Purchase Weapons from the United States

Based on the Foreign Agents Registration Act document, the Ministry of Defense plans to buy weapons from the United States. It is suspected that what will be purchased is fighter planes.

By EDNA C PATTISINA
2 July 2021 21:12 WIB

JAKARTA, KOMPAS — In the midst of his visits to France and Germany, Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto attempted to lobby for weapons from the United States. This is revealed in a public document containing the registration of a lobbying agency with the US Department of Law.

In a document prepared under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) dated June 21, 2021, which was downloaded by Kompas from the FARA website on Wednesday (30/6/2021), it was stated that the attorney office of Ott, Bielitzki and O'Neill had signed an agreement with the Minister Indonesian Defense for the services to be rendered.

Menhan Lobi Pembelian Senjata dari Amerika Serikat

Berdasarkan dokumen Foreign Agents Registration Act, Kementerian Pertahanan berencana membeli persenjataan dari Amerika Serikat. Diduga yang akan dibeli adalah pesawat tempur.

www.kompas.id

 

[Lordimperator]

attempted to lobby for weapons from the United States

for F15 EX? We'll try to get something?

 

[Madokafc]

for F15 EX? We'll try to get something?

Beside of F 15 EX, there is A lot of stuff to be considered

When you signing foreign lobby firm, you don't see kaleng kaleng standard of arms on the catalogue. Still remember Predator on the slide show?

 

[Madokafc]

New Oerlikon Skyshield had been distributed

3 Denhanud Paskhas Peroleh Oerlikon Skyshield​

03 Juli 2021


Meriam Oerlikon Skyshield Mk II Paskhas (photos : Paskhas)

Dankorpaskhas Saksikan Penembakan Meriam Oerlikon Skyshield MK-II

Bandung-Korpaskhas. Komandan Korpaskhas Marsekal Muda TNI Eris Widodo Y., S.E., M.Tr(Han) berkesempatan secara langsung menyaksikan live penembakan Meriam Oerlikon Skyshield MK-II sebagai puncak kegiatan uji fungsi alutsista baru yang dimiliki Korpaskhas yang dilaksanakan di AWR Pandanwangi LUMAJANG Jawa Timur, Kamis (01/7/2021).

Alutsista selanjutnya akan dialokasikan ke tiga satuan Hanud Paskhas yang baru yaitu Denhanud 475 Paskhas, Denhanud 476 Paskhas dan Denhanud 477 Paskhas. Para prajurit Paskhas yang akan mengawaki alutsista tersebut terlebih dahulu dibekali ilmu baik teori maupun praktek tentang pengoperasian dan pemeliharaan Meriam Oerlikon Skyshield MK-II.



Hadir dalam acara tersebut Asops Korpaskhas Kolonel Pas Sonruta Tambunan, S.I.P., M.Tr (Han), Askomlek Korpaskhas Kolonel Lek Cholik Supriyatna, Aslog Korpaskhas Letkol Tek Zulkhali Duki, Danpusdikhanudnas Kolonel Pnb Sugeng, Sahli Air Power Koopsau 2 Kolonel Tek Mahruf M., Kasubdisrudal Komlek Letkol Adi Sudibyo serta dari Tim IMAA (Indonesia Military Air Worthiness Authority) Puslaik Kemhan Letkol Pas Anang Baskoro dan Letkol Tek Suherman. Penkorpaskhas

(PasKhas)

 

[schuimpjes]

Beside of F 15 EX, there is A lot of stuff to be considered

When you signing foreign lobby firm, you don't see kaleng kaleng standard of arms on the catalogue. Still remember Predator on the slide show?

Army video right? I still can get Army request for V-22, but, Grey Eagle? Incomprehensible, sire. Let Predator (or equivalent) as Air Force's matter. Doesn't mean I'm a luddite, what I mean is just give the air branch first.

How about the P-8 for the navy?

 

[Madokafc]

Army video right? I still can get Army request for V-22, but, Grey Eagle? Incomprehensible, sire. Let Predator (or equivalent) as Air Force's matter. Doesn't mean I'm a luddite, what I mean is just give the air branch first.

How about the P-8 for the navy?

Air Force stick with Chinese and locally Made UAV

Army want something exclusive enough for them

 

[schuimpjes]

Air Force stick with Chinese and locally Made UAV

Army want something exclusive enough for them

Mmm yummy......

 

[flogger]

Black Hawk , Chinook,Predator,Longbow,Osprey,777,119.....etc.....etc...

 

[schuimpjes]

777,119

What? 777? Is it for Garuda or what?
119 what? C-119 was a Goddamn Dien Bien Phu's era airplane.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Air Force stick with Chinese and locally Made UAV

Army want something exclusive enough for them

I wonder about that. Why they're sticking with knowing full well against whom we intend to use that platform. Does El Bepe have anything to do with that?