Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387195622759931904

 

[NEKO]

When Danseskoal served in Nanggala they experienced a blackout and the submarine stern tilted to 45 degrees and quickly descend. Just under 10 seconds they descended to 90 meters. All the crews had to crawl up to the bow. It was the good and quick response from the KKM (Kepala Kamar Mesin/Chief Engine Room) that saved Nanggala and ofcourse luck. Don't know if this blackout is a common thing happening in Nanggala but luck doesn't always come to you.

The bow is bit up and the stern is bit down, so its like a nose up but they keep descending? Thats sounds just like what happened to USS thresser, they also lost power (if i am not wrong).

 

[Barjo]

https://mri.lipi.go.id/index.php/MRI/article/view/39

Underwater current in Bali strait is a bit interesting

 

[Anmdt]

The bow is bit up and the stern is bit down, so its like a nose up but they keep descending? Thats sounds just like what happened to USS thresser, they also lost power (if i am not wrong).

USS Thresser was not lost during a torpedo exercise at the periscope depth, she was going through controlled dive-depth tests and around the test depth a pipe joint has cracked and flooded the engine room. Later the crew has raised the nose in attempt to use emergency blow, yet this also have malfunctioned due to ice-pile up in the blower pipes, submarine kept diving and collapsed around 700+ meters depth.
It has happened in 1963 when safety protocols for submarines were not sound yet and most of techs/techniques was on trials.

 

[chiphocks]

What ship ? 110 feet long patrol boat ?

We have lot shipyard capable to build 40 m vessel, moreover bring such vessel to Indonesia will cause pain in the back.

Still, submarine topic make me thinking. Didnt MoD even bats an eye to Soryu nor more advanced boat such as type 218 ? Knowing TNI never give an eye to unproven design such as A26.

All this hype about MoD safary lately only talking about scorpene & type 214, wich make me speculated that there was only MoD ego to lean towards France(beside why he suddenly put rafale into table). IMHO get submarine from firts tier nation such as Japan & German is the best option so far.

Soryu-class, Invincible-class, Tridente-class

But it would be a lot better if they can get a new class based on the German Type-214.
Just like what happened to Tridente-class, Jang-Bogo and Invincible-class

 

[trishna_amrta]

https://mri.lipi.go.id/index.php/MRI/article/view/39

Underwater current in Bali strait is a bit interesting

Just in case you or anyone here hadn't noticed, 402 wasn't going down in Bali strait. It will be an entirely different story if she went down in Bali strait

 

[Barjo]

Just in case you or anyone here hadn't noticed, 402 wasn't going down in Bali strait. It will be an entirely different story if she went down in Bali strait

Baiklah kaka

 

[trishna_amrta]

Don't know if this blackout is a common thing happening in Nanggala but luck doesn't always come to you.

There are others critical problems pertinent to 402. But what was done is done (Nasi Telah Menjadi Bubur). And let it be a hard earn lesson for every stakeholder. And hopefully the gov't will take good care of their family / dependent (they owed it that much if not more)

 

[Stuka Dive]

The bow is bit up and the stern is bit down, so its like a nose up but they keep descending? Thats sounds just like what happened to USS thresser, they also lost power (if i am not wrong).

IMHO, Because of the propeller had stopped rotating then the stern went down and nose went up without any force to ascend, thus it only depends on how much was its buoyancy . If the buoyancy was very less...the sub can start sinking, or if the buoyancy was just enough to maintained it float at a certain depth but an internal solitary wave does exist at the time of the incident, it will just brought down the sub, drifted deeper and deeper

 

[Gundala]

There are others critical problems pertinent to 402. But what was done is done (Nasi Telah Menjadi Bubur). And let it be a hard earn lesson for every stakeholder. And hopefully the gov't will take good care of their family / dependent (they owed it that much if not more)

Yea whats done is done. There are plenty of reasons why older subs need to be replaced. Certain technology/safety/structural/etc just can not or too expensive to replace or modify. Its one of the reason many of todays current technology implement open structure so future software update can be performed as the hardware can be upgraded.

Im deeply sadened by this incident with a mix feeling of anger, frustation, and grief. I just hope those future submarine projects wont be dictated by those behind the desk but rather man behind the wheels.

Farewell to the crew and deep condolances to their family. Tears can not be stopped but chin up, they have fallen as a warrior of the sea....Im proud of them

 

[Nilgiri]

The conversation covers the recent tragic loss, many salient points brought up in this thread and then shifts to more geopolitics, Indonesia relations with PRC, ASEAN, India, Australia and "QUAD" more specifically and other current+related affairs of relevance (Natuna island w.r.t PRC etc).

It may be of interest for readers to listen in and any comments you have.

==============================

The loss of the Indonesian submarine KRI Nanggala with all hands in the Bali Sea last week, brings back uncomfortable memories in India. In August 2013, the Kilo class submarine Sindhurakshak sank in Mumbai Harbour after a blast on board that killed 18 crew members.

In this conversation on The Gist, Anit Mukherjee of the Rajarathnam School of International Studies in Singapore, and James Goldrick, professor in naval and maritime strategy and policy at the Australian National University in Canberra, look at the larger issues behind the loss of the KRI Nanggala.

Indonesia's navy is in the process of modernisation and expansion despite limited budgets. Driven by China's persistent muscle flexing in the South China Sea and increasingly in Indonesia's Natuna Sea, where the Chinese are making new claims, Jakarta's maritime military build-up has preferred so far to avoid naming China as the source of its expansion. But it may not be long before Indonesia will be faced with the kind of intimidation and aggression that the Philippines has been subjected to.

At the same time Jakarta has been wary of alliances, seeking to upgrade its maritime capabilities through bilateral agreements, such as with the Australian and Indian navies. Indonesia has so far been cool to the Quad but given the growing threat perceptions about China, it may not be long before it seeks closer partnerships with other navies.

 

[Madokafc]

The conversation covers the recent tragic loss, many salient points brought up in this thread and then shifts to more geopolitics, Indonesia relations with PRC, ASEAN, India, Australia and "QUAD" more specifically and other current+related affairs of relevance (Natuna island w.r.t PRC etc).

It may be of interest for readers to listen in and any comments you have.

==============================

The loss of the Indonesian submarine KRI Nanggala with all hands in the Bali Sea last week, brings back uncomfortable memories in India. In August 2013, the Kilo class submarine Sindhurakshak sank in Mumbai Harbour after a blast on board that killed 18 crew members.

In this conversation on The Gist, Anit Mukherjee of the Rajarathnam School of International Studies in Singapore, and James Goldrick, professor in naval and maritime strategy and policy at the Australian National University in Canberra, look at the larger issues behind the loss of the KRI Nanggala.

Indonesia's navy is in the process of modernisation and expansion despite limited budgets. Driven by China's persistent muscle flexing in the South China Sea and increasingly in Indonesia's Natuna Sea, where the Chinese are making new claims, Jakarta's maritime military build-up has preferred so far to avoid naming China as the source of its expansion. But it may not be long before Indonesia will be faced with the kind of intimidation and aggression that the Philippines has been subjected to.

At the same time Jakarta has been wary of alliances, seeking to upgrade its maritime capabilities through bilateral agreements, such as with the Australian and Indian navies. Indonesia has so far been cool to the Quad but given the growing threat perceptions about China, it may not be long before it seeks closer partnerships with other navies.

Though Indonesian as a whole mostly when facing the kind of intimidation like what happened against Philippines today would be more united and prefer to eat grass compared to become subject from foreign power. China knowing that prefer to maintain status quo Vis a Vis Indonesia. But Indonesian government itself is always wary and distancing politically against Communist China historically until now, as Indonesian government ideologically is different from China Communist and mostly aware and suspicious against them. This alone and the growing of China fleets in South China Sea is enough to bring Indonesian on the edge.


Edit, typing while doing sahur and sleepy. Sorry for my Messy language

 

[NEKO]

Whitsun reef incident just happened recently, yet there is some people in Indonesia that is still against military modernization.

 

[NEKO]

expansion

Just a little.

 

[Nilgiri]

Just a little.

Yah but it also involves internal development + competencies + advances....while asset numbers stay overall relatively fixed.

Fiscal means and priorities to shape up (more visible) asset expansion takes time and pressure.

I saw similar situation in lot of areas when India military budget was lot smaller (like below 30 billion a year accounting for todays USD etc) some decades back. There is "soft-competency" things you expand while funding bulk (for assets) are stretched/non-prioritised and then they take off more robustly "hard asset" wise down road.

Indonesia will be interesting country to watch on this, for this decade and coming ones. Let us see.

But it is also somewhat in sweetspot area geographically position wise, not too close, not too far etc to some growing powers and friends...w.r.t military development and sustained growth.

 

[Madokafc]

Yah but it also involves internal development + competencies + advances....while asset numbers stay overall relatively fixed.

Fiscal means and priorities to shape up (more visible) asset expansion takes time and pressure.

I saw similar situation in lot of areas when India military budget was lot smaller (like below 30 billion a year accounting for todays USD etc) some decades back. There is "soft-competency" things you expand while funding bulk (for assets) are stretched/non-prioritised and then they take off more robustly "hard asset" wise down road.

Indonesia will be interesting country to watch on this, for this decade and coming ones. Let us see.

But it is also somewhat in sweetspot area geographically position wise, not too close, not too far etc to some growing powers and friends...w.r.t military development and sustained growth.

Indonesia is always punching under their weight since Soekarno era, very unlike Singapore and Vietnam to say. There is almost no commitment to build credible military power along with solid foreign influence in the region, this had been a habit for decades. Our local or National issues is always focused on the domestic problem like jobs opportunity, corruption, economy, religious intoleransi and the likes meanwhile Foreign policy along with Military modernization is not that much important compared to above problem.

Sorry to say with largely peacefull neighbor and environment (the likes of Australia, Singapore, Malaysia and Philippines) Made the question of Butter or Gun in Indonesia is always leaning toward butter as the answer.

Though deep down in the heart of Indonesian people they always regarding their military as important to securing their way of life, more important than Police forces i had to say. But in the face of practical problem, one just doesn't need reason to see which one of problem need to be focused from their own government.

All in all without major problem related with Military, i don't see any significant major change on how Indonesia see how important military modernization it is.

 

[San.geuk]

the goverment should not listen to people who say ,"there's will be no war in next decades"
even I can call them as a traitor

 

[NEKO]

the question of Butter or Gun in Indonesia is always leaning toward butter as the answer.

At least the govt acknowledged it, and try to work it out somehow.

"Karena itu pimpinan negara selalu dihadapkan dengan dilema harus mengutamakan pembangunan kesejahteraan, tapi menjaga kemampuan pertahanan supaya kedaulatan kita tidak diganggu," kata Prabowo.

Tragedi kapal selam KRI Nanggala: Kecelakaan ketiga libatkan kapal tua TNI, apa dampaknya bagi keamanan laut? - BBC News Indonesia

Dalam tiga tahun terakhir, hilangnya kapal selam KRI Nanggala adalah kecelakaan ketiga yang melibatkan kapal TNI yang sudah tua.

www.bbc.com

If the reasons for disagreeing with military modernization is because of economic reasons at least it is still better compared to disagreeing military modernization because of being fifth column. Lets just hope that there is no such thing in Indonesia.

 

[Madokafc]

At least the govt acknowledged it, and try to work it out somehow.

"Karena itu pimpinan negara selalu dihadapkan dengan dilema harus mengutamakan pembangunan kesejahteraan, tapi menjaga kemampuan pertahanan supaya kedaulatan kita tidak diganggu," kata Prabowo.

Tragedi kapal selam KRI Nanggala: Kecelakaan ketiga libatkan kapal tua TNI, apa dampaknya bagi keamanan laut? - BBC News Indonesia

Dalam tiga tahun terakhir, hilangnya kapal selam KRI Nanggala adalah kecelakaan ketiga yang melibatkan kapal TNI yang sudah tua.

www.bbc.com

If the reasons for disagreeing with military modernization is because of economic reasons at least it is still better compared to disagreeing military modernization because of being fifth column. Lets just hope that there is no such thing in Indonesia.

Almost all big political party in Indonesia doesn't have qualm against military modernization actually, either it is religion or National based parties. Most of their concern is based on which partner countries Indonesia do the business as any ruling parties had their preferences. Though in this case each of service branches too had their ego

 

[Indos]

Whitsun reef incident just happened recently, yet there is some people in Indonesia that is still against military modernization.

At current state just focus on maintenance first, fix the main problem first. Even with previous acquisition many of our CN 235 planes are still grounded due to lack of maintenance budget, this show that the urge to buy and maybe get some kick back during the process is more important than giving approriate maintenance to all of present equipment that can save lives of our soldiers

Another example, while Airforce has tried to get budget on new fighter acquisition but they admit that the budget for retrofit of our Hawk 109/200 hasnt been included in the budget. This once again show what happen