Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Van Kravchenko

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Do we have to wait for italian or Egyptian FREMM being built first? 2 latest Italian FREMM sold to Egypt, and i think they want to order more.
Some source claimed if Egypt alredy got 3 Fremm, 1 Aquitane , 2 Bergamini. Coincidentaly they're secondhand vessel ( i mean they already build to fufill respective country request but sold to Egypt instead).
Offcourse with some minor adjustment.

how about terms to complete it before 2024 like alman said? does the terms still apply?

building a vessel should take a long time tho, this AH criteria still can be made if you consider 2 refurbished Maestrale is applicable for such term.

Am afraid a cant find proper source to tell me how long construction time of A Fremm fregate. 12 to 18 month is still respectable time for the constructions process. Not to mentions anoter test must be take in place before delivery and commisions.
 

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Anmdt

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I guess that Fincantieri accepted the challenge. Lets see how it goes.

Apart from the irrational claim of the delivery of 4 FREMM by 2024, is people aware that Indonesian Navy should train some fine cadets and officers at an amount of at least a thousand (150 by average per ship core crew, 100 for rotation) by 2023, excluding some technician for maintenance, which then will be trained by Italian Navy and Fincantieri/Leonardo to operate those 4 ship when they are delivered?

Maestrale may be delivered even in 2023, maybe 2 other FREMM can be delivered in Q1-Q2 2025, Other two in Q2-Q3 2026.
Italy has started construction of FREMM GP in February for themselves and expect to deliver in 2025, even if they lease their own hulls which is under construction 2024 seems a bit hard.

The decision and deal was awesome (yet i still feel worried for Iver) ,nonetheless, these parts don't make much sense.
 

FoodSoldier

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Apart from the irrational claim of the delivery of 4 FREMM by 2024, is people aware that Indonesian Navy should train some fine cadets and officers at an amount of at least a thousand (150 by average per ship core crew, 100 for rotation) by 2023, excluding some technician for maintenance, which then will be trained by Italian Navy and Fincantieri/Leonardo to operate those 4 ship when they are delivered?

Maestrale may be delivered even in 2023, maybe 2 other FREMM can be delivered in Q1-Q2 2025, Other two in Q2-Q3 2026.
Italy has started construction of FREMM GP in February for themselves and expect to deliver in 2025, even if they lease their own hulls which is under construction 2024 seems a bit hard.

The decision and deal was awesome (yet i still feel worried for Iver) ,nonetheless, these parts don't make much sense.

Our current MoD is a tough negotiator. He will make sure he get what he want (having a FREMM sailing in 5th Oct 2023 Armed Forces Anniversary parade).
 

Madokafc

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Apart from the irrational claim of the delivery of 4 FREMM by 2024, is people aware that Indonesian Navy should train some fine cadets and officers at an amount of at least a thousand (150 by average per ship core crew, 100 for rotation) by 2023, excluding some technician for maintenance, which then will be trained by Italian Navy and Fincantieri/Leonardo to operate those 4 ship when they are delivered?

Maestrale may be delivered even in 2023, maybe 2 other FREMM can be delivered in Q1-Q2 2025, Other two in Q2-Q3 2026.
Italy has started construction of FREMM GP in February for themselves and expect to deliver in 2025, even if they lease their own hulls which is under construction 2024 seems a bit hard.

The decision and deal was awesome (yet i still feel worried for Iver) ,nonetheless, these parts don't make much sense.

I am had trying to find more info regarding FREMM deal, the little info i got

2024 is Launched dateline for the first ship (as they would taking the Italian Navy production line order to prioritized for TNI AL) , not commisioned time, the rest would be launched one by one each year. PT PAL would starting to work on Fremm class after launched the second Iver class in 2026 or 2027 or roughly around 48 month works. This not much accurate info but i hope they would speed up the work by the way.
 

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Apart from the irrational claim of the delivery of 4 FREMM by 2024, is people aware that Indonesian Navy should train some fine cadets and officers at an amount of at least a thousand (150 by average per ship core crew, 100 for rotation) by 2023, excluding some technician for maintenance, which then will be trained by Italian Navy and Fincantieri/Leonardo to operate those 4 ship when they are delivered?

Maestrale may be delivered even in 2023, maybe 2 other FREMM can be delivered in Q1-Q2 2025, Other two in Q2-Q3 2026.
Italy has started construction of FREMM GP in February for themselves and expect to deliver in 2025, even if they lease their own hulls which is under construction 2024 seems a bit hard.

The decision and deal was awesome (yet i still feel worried for Iver) ,nonetheless, these parts don't make much sense.

Well , you obviously haven't heard much about him ( 08 ) as yet . Hardcored and unbreakable close to a stubborn was an understatement for him .
Whatever foreign sources ever tell about us . Only a handfull incident ( finger in one hand's handsfull !! ) were armed forces commander ever mobilized their boys to defy the legal ruler/president's order . And he is one those anomalious commander .
 

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If we look from a political perspective, 5th Oct 2023 is the key date for MoD to showcase the fruit of his modernization program.

Presidential election will be held on Feb 2024. So, all OEMs need to at least deliver something on TNI anniv 2023.

Lets sit tight and enjoy the show.
 

Madokafc

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If we look from a political perspective, 5th Oct 2023 is the key date for MoD to showcase the fruit of his modernization program.

Presidential election will be held on Feb 2024. So, all OEMs need to at least deliver something on TNI anniv 2023.

Lets sit tight and enjoy the show.

Warships, fighter need time though, helicopters would be more easier, armor vehicles can be done
 

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Italian media responded to the French La Tribune article.

The Italian slap that angers France

Lorenzo Vita
19 JUNE 2021

France is not there. The Italian move (by Fincantieri) to grab a contract with Indonesia of about 4 billion for the sale of six Fremm frigates plus modernization and sale of two other Maestrale class frigates continues to hold ground in Paris. And there are many who are now wondering about the reasons behind an agreement which, if it demonstrates the excellent Italian ability to snatch business around the world, at the same time proves more than one difficulty on the French side. Difficulty that burns even more to the French because they are partners, together with Fincantieri, precisely for the realization of the Fremm.

Something has obviously gone wrong. La Tribune, a French newspaper very involved in issues related to defense and the war industry, described not only the anger of Naval Group, which is part, together with Fincantieri, of the Naviris group, but also the disappointment of the general delegate for armaments, Joël Barre, who spoke about it during a hearing at the National Assembly. An economic question, of course, but above all of national pride, because it is clear that being outclassed by a country that shares the same industrial group is a setback that also represents a warning signal for the entire French war industry. There are even those who have suggested that there is a secret agreement between the French and Italian giant to divide up the customers, and therefore Italy would have had a sort of priority for Indonesia and the Philippines. But what transpires from these first reports is that the entire French defense industry is in turmoil: a sector characterized by silence, hidden moves and little desire to speak in the press. If this time this boiling reaches the surface, involving media and politics, it therefore means that the underground earthquake was much greater than we could expect.

In fact, the issue does not only concern Indonesia, but the entire French industrial plan and the ability to export it abroad. In the military field, Emmanuel Macron (like all his predecessors) has always shown off the military sector as a cornerstone of his diplomacy. Sales of the Rafale, Dassault's fighters, are exemplary in this sense. Where the Elysée arrives, French warplanes usually also arrive, as demonstrated by the contracts signed with Qatar, Egypt, India and Greece. The latter, in particular, was the subject of a real enveloping maneuver by Paris, which first supported it against Turkey and then convinced it to buy 18 Rafale, 12 of which have already been used by the French Air Force.

However, if the air sector still manages to express its own "geopolitics", the naval question is different. Italy, which has excellent relations with France in this area confirmed by the Fremm and Horizon projects, has managed to maneuver with great intelligence even in countries considered not strictly linked to the Made in Italy defense industry. The clearest demonstration of this Italian strategy came from the sale of the Fremms to Egypt, which, in addition to being described in the framework of the complex bilateral relationship due to the Regeni case, should also be framed as an agreement that wrested billions from Cairo which, very much probably, they would go to Paris. But in addition to the sale of the two ships to the Egyptian Navy, we must not forget the numerous agreements with the American Navy, with the Qatari Navy, the agreements with the United Arab Emirates and finally a whole series of operations that have very often represented a real thorn in the side of French industrial diplomacy.

And now, after the Indonesia question, another front could also open up: the Greek one. In these days, Naval News confirmed that in a meeting on the acquisition of new frigates which was also attended by Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the Greek government would have selected the offers of six countries: France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and United States. Spain, which had come forward with Navantia's offer, would therefore have been excluded. Fincantieri should always propose the Fremm in Athens, by now a real Italian asset for surface vehicles. France thought it already had the agreement in hand after the one signed for the Hellenic Air Force. A new slap in the face from the Italian side, in a country that it considers partners both on the Libyan front and on that of the eastern Mediterranean, could be much heavier than that already suffered in Indonesia.

It's not a common thing that you heard asterix and obelix got beaten down by Roman's soldier...perhaps asterix has to shared his magic drink to obelix...
otherwise..."Ave Caesar!!"
 

wekiweko

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Just imagine, the Surabaya Naval Base which Will be a home base for those FREMM and Itver Huitveld class being guarded by M1939 37 mm gun manned by Marines who bring Manpad like Rucika.....
well those FREMM and Iver will become the main air defense assets of the base and its surrounding area if there are no plan to improve beyond M1939 wkwkwkwk
 

wekiweko

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IMHO REM class should form the bulk of our navy by replacing those parchims. It is a good General Purpose package
 

Madokafc

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IMHO REM class should form the bulk of our navy by replacing those parchims. It is a good General Purpose package

They are rather expensive though for ship of her class.
 

Van Kravchenko

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REM doesnt have hull and towed sonar right?
Hull mounted Yes, towed no.

Its modular, tho you its must be modified to mount VDS .

What in my mind is to replace all parchim with Nahkoda Ragam class, quite pack a punch like REM minus CIWS.

The discontinuation of REM, can be a sign wether Navy (stakeholders) dissapointee, or Navy want some new stuff
 

joedhie2k

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Apart from the irrational claim of the delivery of 4 FREMM by 2024, is people aware that Indonesian Navy should train some fine cadets and officers at an amount of at least a thousand (150 by average per ship core crew, 100 for rotation) by 2023, excluding some technician for maintenance, which then will be trained by Italian Navy and Fincantieri/Leonardo to operate those 4 ship when they are delivered?

Maestrale may be delivered even in 2023, maybe 2 other FREMM can be delivered in Q1-Q2 2025, Other two in Q2-Q3 2026.
Italy has started construction of FREMM GP in February for themselves and expect to deliver in 2025, even if they lease their own hulls which is under construction 2024 seems a bit hard.

The decision and deal was awesome (yet i still feel worried for Iver) ,nonetheless, these parts don't make much sense.
relax,

being our sailor and cadets as nation best sons and under the leadership of the glorious panglima with spirit of sapta marga, all of them can operate any ship system just after some on-hand familiarization in 1-2 initial cruise

this should be enough for annual parade sail around the country
 

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