Casual Discussion International Lounge

N

Null/Void

Guest
I have taken so much vicarious pleasure in seeing their holy mother [UAE] hugging their devil [Israel] hahaha ....


Well UAE was tanking in their perceptions for a past couple of years Turkish soft power is very strong in Pakistan at moment so anything pro Erdogan and pro Turkey is in the vogue in Pakistan I would argue Pakistan foreign soft power was dominated by the Gulf Arabs from mid 1970s to late 2010s
 
N

Null/Void

Guest
Yup please do when you have a little time. Saiyan is pretty much all by himself for now (though posting quality analysis).

Honestly I feel like we can actually speak plainly now without having a dozen trolls stinking a whole thread up...and then mods playing "favourites and scapegoats" on top. With the root quality established, expanding will be easy as I feel this is what is really the USP lot of places are missing these days with the copy-pasting of twitterverse model.

I am working to increase membership of all nationalities represented here including for Pakistan so activity will definitely pick up with time.

You were a project for a few weeks or so to get here working thru mutual contacts (since I got permabanned pretty much at you know where) lol....i ticked you off my list now.


Poor Saiyan its too bad I am kinda in a pickle with a lot of personal business at work,school at home to deal with atm otherwise I would be here helping out the Pakistani section PDF burned me out from topics regarding Pakistan and geopolitics good thing is PIP who I use to respect a lot wont be here derailing the threads as usual
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,738
Reactions
118 19,732
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
Poor Saiyan its too bad I am kinda in a pickle with a lot of personal business at work,school at home to deal with atm otherwise I would be here helping out the Pakistani section PDF burned me out from topics regarding Pakistan and geopolitics good thing is PIP who I use to respect a lot wont be here derailing the threads as usual

Yup its going to be busy time for lot of us. Basically just squeeze in here what you can manage....real life comes first always.
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,837
Reactions
6 18,669
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
I will explore this subject on a thread in Pak section. You see as a secularist I have always tried to figure out why the fcuk are so many Paks crazed with religion? Why do they start and fart religion? It fcukin pores out like a fountain. But it's all feigned as most are as irreligious in substance as any other, if not more than others.

My conclusion was it all began from 1947. The migrants from India moved to Pakistan not because of ethnic, cultural, lingustic etc reasons but because of religion. That 5% of Pak demography mostly centred today in Karachi had a identity crisis. Shorn or sans religion [Muslim] they were just Indians, be they Biharis, Utter Pradeshis or Bengalis. Whereas rest of us majority [95%] Pakistani's were Pakhtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris and thus had a identity asides Islam. But these migrants if they drop 'Muslim' tag what are you left with. Just Indian. Thus they stress 'Muslim' to differantiate themselves from India by stressing the later as "Hindu".

In a sense a secular migrant 'Muhajir' is a contradiction because he/she negates their reason for being in Pakistan or Pakistani. It is this identity crisis that has been infected onto rest of the majority and where taking pride in your province/ethnic group is seen as a sin. Fact is legally Pakistan is a FEDERATION of five major ethnic/provinces and the name Pakistan reflects that as a acroynm.

P 4 Punjab
A 4 Afghania [NWFP] today Khyber Pakhtun
K 4 Kashmir
S 4 Sind
T -
A -
N - as suffix from Balochis-TAN

View attachment 1290

Because Pakistan was formed by the basis of religion while most muslim countries evolved into a nation state with some form of nationalism. Pakistans one centred on religion. Pakistan despite being multicultural and multi ethnic its unity was formed around religion. Regardless of what ethnic group what mattered was everybody was Muslim.

To unite a nation under religion has to be given its credit because such experiments failed in a lot of Muslim countries even today it continues.

For Pakistan it has its good and bad. Religion can be positive but also negative. Same for secularism it has its positives and negatives.

Biggest enemy is fanaticism regardless of religion or political ideology and how some people are willing to use violence to achieve it.
 

Xenon54

Experienced member
Switzerland Correspondent
Messages
2,181
Reactions
5 6,703
Nation of residence
Switzerland
Nation of origin
Turkey

Xenon54

Experienced member
Switzerland Correspondent
Messages
2,181
Reactions
5 6,703
Nation of residence
Switzerland
Nation of origin
Turkey
Pakistan is indeed a Federation, not a unitary state however I would like to see more centralization but I come to the senses it would not work cause a geninue "Pakistani" identity besides religion would need to be promoted I would prefer we rename the IR of Pakistan to the Pakistani Federation akin to Russian Federation where provinces are "upgraded" to Republics with a degree of autonomy but defense and foreign affairs should be handled by Islamabad, well I shouldn't be using the Russian Federation as a example as its notoriously courupt and oligarchical a better example is Switzerland and its Cantons what we can learn from the Ruskies is how to pacify separatists movements which they have been successful to a extent
But Swiss exsample requires educated population and advanced democracy, i would start with Russia first. 😂
 
N

Null/Void

Guest
But Swiss exsample requires educated population and advanced democracy, i would start with Russia first. 😂


Yeah we need to learn how they tamed the Caucasus sort of so we can do the same in the tribal Balochistan region
 

VCheng

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
488
Reactions
537
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Pakistan
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that she had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on this plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D. No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, all failed, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,466
Solutions
2
Reactions
115 24,655
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
Taxation, tax poor less, tax wealthy more, tax luxury items even more (yachts, jewelry, private jets, mansions), tax basic needs less, make education and medical services free and high quality. Remove private education and private medical services.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
Increase minimum wage beyond a sufficient life expectancy. Increase wage of employees in public services. Set minimum life standards to be met by service providers ( home owners, household item producers)
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Taxes, the wealthy should be taxed more, the companies should be taxed more and properly.
In addition;
Ban luxury cars with high emissions in city centers, or tax more if they prefer such and fund public transport, subsidy it for public good, improve quality of it.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
Again taxes, and you can multiply wealthy by taking portions of it and re-purposing for low income people.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
True. But from this perspective the minimum wage should be removed either.

The experiment is actually not accurate to question socialism, because students' maximum grade is limited with 100, and minimum with 0 however it is not such in capitalism; replace those with minus points and excessive points to some questions, increase point of questions which is answered less (demand/supply), give privileges to the students with excessive points (front rows, more items /tools /books). This is how capitalism or free economy works; money attracts money, poor remains poor. A hard worker well educated scientist or engineer can barely skip to middle-up class.
Socialism/Communism tends to be corrupted, in the experiment let some of students be part of a group which evaluates the exam results and tell them they can distribute 1000 points at most and see whether it would be equal or unfair. Or in the other way around while testing capitalism randomly give out 1000 points to some students and let those hire some other students to complete their own exams.

Education is the key, educate a community well,so that chosen administrators become aware that they are not beyond the public but they are meant to be servants, they are not the minority which meant to govern the public but minority which was chosen to serve. What is wrong with the current system in majority of the countries that governors believe they are privileged a few.
 
Last edited:

VCheng

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
488
Reactions
537
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Pakistan
Taxation, tax poor less, tax wealthy more, tax luxury items even more (yachts, jewelry, private jets, mansions), tax basic needs less, make education and medical services free and high quality.

Increase minimum wage beyond a sufficient life expectancy. Increase wage of employees in public services.

Taxes, the wealthy should be taxed more, the companies should be taxed more and properly.
In addition;
Ban luxury cars with high emissions in city centers, or tax more if they prefer such and fund public transport, subsidy it for public good.

What to do with excessive wealth? I literally don't understand when someone is rich beyond an amount. (like multi millions)

True.

The experiment is actually not accurate to question socialism, because student's maximum grade is limited with 100, and minimum with 0. Replace it with minus points and excessive points to some questions, give privileges to the students with excessive points (front rows, more items /tools /books). This is how capitalism works, money attracts money, poor remains poor. A hard worker can barely skip to middle-up class.
Socialism/Communism tends to be corrupted, in the experiment let some of students be part of a group which evaluates the exam results and tell them they can distribute 1000 points at most and see whether it would be equal or unfair.
Education is the key, educate a community well, chosen administrators becomes aware that they are not above the public but they are meant to be servants, they are not the minority which meant to govern the public but minority which was chosen to serve.

Who gets to decide what is "excessive" wealth and based on what criteria? Similarly, taxation needs to be progressive, but when 1% are paying 50% of the revenues, who decides the limits on the progression tables?
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,466
Solutions
2
Reactions
115 24,655
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Who gets to decide what is "excessive" wealth and based on what criteria? Similarly, taxation needs to be progressive, but when 1% are paying 50% of the revenues, who decides the limits on the progression tables?
I have given excessive example as my own ranting and i have edited that part, i could never understood what those people do with hundred of millions.
I am not economist so i can't tell who will decide the taxing or how to do that. I have just told neither capitalism, nor socialism alone works. capitalism is corrupted as much as socialism.
 

KKF 2.0

Well-known member
Messages
354
Reactions
825
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Let me guess. @KKF 2.0 hahahaha over here to catch mice ........ !!! One of my best buddies amongst the Turkish cohort on PDF.

Yes, it's me. I'm banned on PDF. They restricted my account for no reason. I don't even know what I did wrong. Like so many Turkish users, I can log in but don't post anything or get in touch with anybody. Kinda like a living dead.

So, I packed all of my opinions, ideas and beliefs and moved along with the herd to settle here. Good to see you here.
 
N

Null/Void

Guest
Yes, it's me. I'm banned on PDF. They restricted my account for no reason. I don't even know what I did wrong. Like so many Turkish users, I can log in but don't post anything or get in touch with anybody. Kinda like a living dead.

So, I packed all of my opinions, ideas and beliefs and moved along with the herd to settle here. Good to see you here.
This is ludicrous the PDF mods are filled with cry babies and the demographic that logs in now have turned the place into another echo chamber
 

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
Yes, it's me. I'm banned on PDF. They restricted my account for no reason. I don't even know what I did wrong. Like so many Turkish users, I can log in but don't post anything or get in touch with anybody. Kinda like a living dead.

So, I packed all of my opinions, ideas and beliefs and moved along with the herd to settle here. Good to see you here.
I am really shocked they banned you. I am not surprised about myself. My views on Mohajirs are well known and many at PDF belong to that demography. But you? Your posts were diplomatic, very impartial and never entered anything conflicting. Anyway I am glad your here. When I open threads in Pak section I will tag you for your input as you are now well read in matters Pakistan.
 

KKF 2.0

Well-known member
Messages
354
Reactions
825
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am really shocked they banned you. I am not surprised about myself. My views on Mohajirs are well known and many at PDF belong to that demography. But you? Your posts were diplomatic, very impartial and never entered anything conflicting. Anyway I am glad your here. When I open threads in Pak section I will tag you for your input as you are now well read in matters Pakistan.

I went to a Pakistani restaurant a couple of months ago and I laughed so hard after hearing from the very sweet owner that he's part Turkic and part Arabic (descendent from our prophets lineage making him a self-declared "seyyid") because his family name is part Turkish and Arabic. Gotta admit though, I laughed on the inside but still...you popped up in my brain the second he explained his alleged ancestry. lol
 
N

Null/Void

Guest
I went to a Pakistani restaurant a couple of months ago and I laughed so hard after hearing from the very sweet owner that he's part Turkic and part Arabic (descendent from our prophets lineage making him a self-declared "seyyid") because his family name is part Turkish and Arabic. Gotta admit though, I laughed on the inside but still...you popped up in my brain the second he explained his alleged ancestry. lol


BHAI WE LOVE URDOGAN SAABBB TURKEY IS NO 1 BRO TURKEY SHOULD STOP COPYING WEST
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom