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Nilgiri

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I am really shocked they banned you. I am not surprised about myself. My views on Mohajirs are well known and many at PDF belong to that demography. But you? Your posts were diplomatic, very impartial and never entered anything conflicting. Anyway I am glad your here. When I open threads in Pak section I will tag you for your input as you are now well read in matters Pakistan.

There was a night of long knives kind of purge thing. It was very pathetic and unnecessary (I saw the start, middle and finish and opened my big fat mouth a cpl times too when it got really ridiculous...there was also a long drawn out prequel story too).

Getting swept up into that resulted in near-permaban etc for me...I have been pink before, so no loss there for me to be pink again for much longer in eyes of the head honchos...I would imagine similar case to you if you stuck neck out same way given the toes you step on just like me.

I got no regrets in hindsight, I find the Turks straight shooters, well organised and close-knit group...but largely open-minded too and of course interested in military/geopolitics like me...I generally respect such things manifesting whatever the nationality.

i.e....theres no sleazy weird politics going around like with PDF world up there....where you rise favourably in some moments (aman ki asha tamasha, platitude waffle or "muh forum iz quality blah") only to be a easy-scapegoat for later...to be silenced and disposed of. Some of these "et tu brute?" backstabbings lately really linger now for me....you think you know some ppl over time, but its not so sadly. But its just online stuff in end, its not that important thankfully.

People running a forum ought to recognise who is quality and who isnt and take concrete action on it rather than play stupid equal-equal games on it (as though everyone opinions count the same..but sometimes selectively do not)...it cannot be taught, it is simply known when you are adult. But then again, I guess its inevitable should the focus be on quantity rather than quality.

Anyway we are going off topic again, webslave might have to move all this again heh. EDIT: I moved it myself hehe.
 

Nilgiri

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Getting swept up into that resulted in near-permaban etc for me...I have been pink before, so no loss there for me to be pink again for much longer in eyes of the head honchos...I would imagine similar case to you if you stuck neck out same way given the toes you step on just like me.

Would like to add why I brought this up, explains why they went the route they did with Turkish members in comparison. I honestly didn't even know this kind of freeze-post purgatory thing existed...it is done simply to make it look like Turkish members left but are unbanned etc.
 

Kaptaan

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Pakistan is indeed a Federation, not a unitary state however I would like to see more centralization but I come to the senses it would not work cause a geninue "Pakistani" identity besides religion would need to be promoted I would prefer we rename the IR of Pakistan to the Pakistani Federation akin to Russian Federation where provinces are "upgraded" to Republics with a degree of autonomy but defense and foreign affairs should be handled by Islamabad, well I shouldn't be using the Russian Federation as a example as its notoriously courupt and oligarchical a better example is Switzerland and its Cantons what we can learn from the Ruskies is how to pacify separatists movements which they have been successful to a extent
Look. We make too much of states. Modern nation states are a recent invention, particulary taking shape after Treaty of Westphalia. Fundamental to a state is the compact between the citizens and the state. The citizens will swear allegiance to the state, the state will have monopoly over force and in return the citizens will be taken care of. Taken care of meaning their safety, their economic security and justice. There is absolutely nothing holy about this. Absolutely nothing to do with religion. You cannot have a state and call it Islamic. The two are contradictory for the simple reason that a state begins with geographic exclusivness. That is it has borders that exclude outsiders. Religion by definition is inclusive and universal. Islam cannot be tied down to one geography. No one country can 'own' it. No one country can brand it. To do so is perverse.

Thus keeping these facts in mind at state should focus on the mundane. On the present. Not on godly, or hereafter. That is provide yur average citizen education, justice, economic well being, a safe and healthy built environment and freedom to pursue happiness in manner each individual chooses to. That is all.

In Pakistan's case all it is is broadly speaking five ethnic groups clustered around five provinces that gave the name PAKSTAN to the country. Give each province freedom within the federation. That way the country will prosper.

@Yankeestani @KKF 2.0 @Nilgiri @Saiyan0321
 

Kaptaan

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The reason why my stock fell at PDF was simple. I take a very functional and mundane outlook with regards to nation states. No ideologies, no hype about religion, no big talk of uber-morality. A state is just a legal compact to provide a vehicle for the citizens to live a happy, fulfilled lives. Thay is all.
 

Kaptaan

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The problem is this mundane outlook clashes with two groups in the Pakistani context. The two M's. Mullahs and Muhajirs. Both require Pakistan to be a ideological state or else their very basis is undermined. I will explore this complex in a thread to fully develop this line of thinking.
 
N

Null/Void

Guest
Look. We make too much of states. Modern nation states are a recent invention, particulary taking shape after Treaty of Westphalia. Fundamental to a state is the compact between the citizens and the state. The citizens will swear allegiance to the state, the state will have monopoly over force and in return the citizens will be taken care of. Taken care of meaning their safety, their economic security and justice. There is absolutely nothing holy about this. Absolutely nothing to do with religion. You cannot have a state and call it Islamic. The two are contradictory for the simple reason that a state begins with geographic exclusivness. That is it has borders that exclude outsiders. Religion by definition is inclusive and universal. Islam cannot be tied down to one geography. No one country can 'own' it. No one country can brand it. To do so is perverse.

Thus keeping these facts in mind at state should focus on the mundane. On the present. Not on godly, or hereafter. That is provide yur average citizen education, justice, economic well being, a safe and healthy built environment and freedom to pursue happiness in manner each individual chooses to. That is all.

In Pakistan's case all it is is broadly speaking five ethnic groups clustered around five provinces that gave the name PAKSTAN to the country. Give each province freedom within the federation. That way the country will prosper.

@Yankeestani @KKF 2.0 @Nilgiri @Saiyan0321


If Pakistan can provide its citizens with the basic services I think the people there would be much more proud
 
N

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1600125310904.png


NazBol mindset
 
N

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Concubine in the harem of Arab sheikhs: She is presented with dollars in bags



“I was brought up in a good family, I was engaged in acting. But I was easily seduced by money, turned into a whore. I had to leave my friends and fly to the UAE and Saudi Arabia. Now I understand that, serving men for money, I will not find true love, although I miss the luxury that I am used to. " A lot of such stories have been written in closed Internet communities that publish profiles of hundreds of escort girls.

At the word "escort", the imagination draws an aristocratic intellectual hetero who does not compromise her principles. But in practice, everything turns out to be much more prosaic. An escort has long turned into a luxury and long-term option of prostitution with full financial support, which not all men can handle. The average price tag is $ 10-20 thousand per month. If you invite an escort lady for a day, then an hour of "rental" costs from $ 500.


Such girls call themselves whatever you like - models, bloggers, photographers. They lead bright and colorful pages on social networks , where the sea with white sand, multi-deck yachts and expensive champagne on board a private jet. Looking at this fairy tale, many of the same age envy them and begin to think: why am I worse? It's easy to fall for this bait, especially when you are only 18 years old.

With mom in tandem

The most expensive escort in the post-Soviet space is the 22-year-old Ukrainian Yana Orfeeva. Her rate is over $ 5000 ... for one hour plus expensive gifts.


The girl was born in Cherkassy. A little over 100 thousand people are subscribed to her Instagram - a rather modest figure for a "fashion blogger". But at the same time, she has no end to fans from all over the world.


Her real name is Vasilenko. She does not particularly spread about her parents, although sometimes she puts pictures on her pages with a young and beautiful mother, who often keeps her company on trips to warmer regions.

After leaving school, Yana participated in the Miss Ukraine contest, but did not make it to the final. And, as often happens, right after the competition, a wealthy man drew attention to her. The girl went with him to rest somewhere in Asia.

A few months later, 18-year-old Vasilenko, who had turned into Orpheev by that time, moved to Saudi Arabia, where her career as an escort lady began.

The first admirer of the girl was the Saudi prince al-Walid bin Talal.

The first admirer of the girl was the Saudi prince al-Walid bin Talal.
Photo: Facebook
Slavic Scheherazade

In Riyadh, Yana fell in love with the local prince al-Walid bin Talal, who decided to take her to his harem.

Today's harems differ significantly from medieval ones. The girls are rented luxury apartments, they accompany their hosts during their trips and business meetings, and also entertain guests at parties.

By the way, being in a harem, the Ukrainian woman decided on radical changes in her appearance: she enlarged her lips and corrected the oval of her face. And then, and now, Yana strictly monitors her figure: a flat stomach, slender legs, white teeth and long silky hair.



Evil tongues gossip that Prince Yana quickly got bored. Whether it is true or not is not important anymore From the harem, she moved to the palace of a close friend of the prince, a 60-year-old Saudi billionaire. Where she stayed for two whole years, becoming a local legend.

Billionaire's heiress

As Yana's “colleagues” gossip, the billionaire was so fascinated by the sincerity and beauty of the Ukrainian woman that he did not spare any money for her, allowing her to twist ropes from himself. The night, full of passionate pleasures, cost the Saudi $ 50,000, in addition to this, Yana received $ 150,000 in monthly maintenance from her fan.

- I myself saw how she carried money in sacks. And in the end, she took out as much as $ 4 million in cash from Saudi Arabia! - says one of Yana's friends.

But in 2018, the richer died unexpectedly, and Yana had to leave the kingdom. Rumor has it that the beloved wrote the Ukrainian woman in the will, according to which she was to receive $ 200 million. But few people believe in this.

Then she ended up in the harem of his friend, a 60-year-old billionaire ...

Then she ended up in the harem of his friend, a 60-year-old billionaire ...
Photo: Instagram.com
Kind, but mercantile


From Saudi Arabia, Yana moved to the United Arab Emirates, where she found refuge in Dubai in the arms of another prince. However, something went wrong with them, and Orfeeva returned to her homeland.

She wisely invested the money she earned in real estate, acquiring several apartments in Kiev and Moscow. The life of a rentier brings her a good income, which allows her to live for her own pleasure, as well as travel a lot.

Yana is called good, kind and beautiful, but mercantile and spoiled to the bone. Although one can argue about commercialism: Orfeeva helps with money orphanages and hospitals.


While she is single and does not have a serious relationship with anyone. Her main dream is another billionaire, only now as a husband, not a lover.

EXPERT COMMENTARY


Valentina ZAKOTSOLA, marriage and family expert:

A lonely childhood determines their fate



yana.orfeeva
yana.orfeeva

Nammos mykonos

Nammos mykonos
3232Likes

comments


- It is not surprising that a large number of escort girls are from Ukraine. First, the difficult economic situation in this country affects ordinary people. Secondly, Ukrainian women have always been famous for their natural beauty, and young inexperienced girls often stake on this gift, believing that it will bring them happiness. But they do not understand that this approach will affect their personal life in the future.

Quite often, such girls are raised by single mothers who themselves do not live well. Hence the desire to get easy money. Often mothers tell them: “Daughter, the main thing is to get married successfully. Love, of course, is needed, but a good financial situation is more important. "

It is against this background that escort girls form a different understanding of life: they are young, beautiful, they can make money on it, so men owe them. Thus, at the expense of men, they are trying to improve their financial situation. Although many of them do not even understand that they are capable of arranging their own lives, developing, learning. That they are able to be able to attract the attention of worthy men and ultimately become beautiful, smart, loved, wealthy mistresses of their lives.
 
T

triangle

Guest
Look. We make too much of states. Modern nation states are a recent invention, particulary taking shape after Treaty of Westphalia. Fundamental to a state is the compact between the citizens and the state. The citizens will swear allegiance to the state, the state will have monopoly over force and in return the citizens will be taken care of. Taken care of meaning their safety, their economic security and justice. There is absolutely nothing holy about this. Absolutely nothing to do with religion. You cannot have a state and call it Islamic. The two are contradictory for the simple reason that a state begins with geographic exclusivness. That is it has borders that exclude outsiders. Religion by definition is inclusive and universal. Islam cannot be tied down to one geography. No one country can 'own' it. No one country can brand it. To do so is perverse.

x2 👌

But IMO, the whole of modernity(which the modern (nation) state is one of the many parts) eventually leads to destruction in both the pysical and non-physical realm. In conclusion, modernity is both from an utilitarian/pragmatic and absolutist moral standpoint bad. Although the absolutist moral standpoint was right from the beginning vis-a-vis modernity, the utilitarian/pragmatic standpoint is only now proven wrong, with the continuing destruction of the biosphere.

The damage has already done and we must brace for the impact.

Sorry for the offtopic rant.
 

Philip the Arab

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Concubine in the harem of Arab sheikhs: She is presented with dollars in bags



“I was brought up in a good family, I was engaged in acting. But I was easily seduced by money, turned into a whore. I had to leave my friends and fly to the UAE and Saudi Arabia. Now I understand that, serving men for money, I will not find true love, although I miss the luxury that I am used to. " A lot of such stories have been written in closed Internet communities that publish profiles of hundreds of escort girls.

At the word "escort", the imagination draws an aristocratic intellectual hetero who does not compromise her principles. But in practice, everything turns out to be much more prosaic. An escort has long turned into a luxury and long-term option of prostitution with full financial support, which not all men can handle. The average price tag is $ 10-20 thousand per month. If you invite an escort lady for a day, then an hour of "rental" costs from $ 500.


Such girls call themselves whatever you like - models, bloggers, photographers. They lead bright and colorful pages on social networks , where the sea with white sand, multi-deck yachts and expensive champagne on board a private jet. Looking at this fairy tale, many of the same age envy them and begin to think: why am I worse? It's easy to fall for this bait, especially when you are only 18 years old.

With mom in tandem

The most expensive escort in the post-Soviet space is the 22-year-old Ukrainian Yana Orfeeva. Her rate is over $ 5000 ... for one hour plus expensive gifts.


The girl was born in Cherkassy. A little over 100 thousand people are subscribed to her Instagram - a rather modest figure for a "fashion blogger". But at the same time, she has no end to fans from all over the world.


Her real name is Vasilenko. She does not particularly spread about her parents, although sometimes she puts pictures on her pages with a young and beautiful mother, who often keeps her company on trips to warmer regions.

After leaving school, Yana participated in the Miss Ukraine contest, but did not make it to the final. And, as often happens, right after the competition, a wealthy man drew attention to her. The girl went with him to rest somewhere in Asia.

A few months later, 18-year-old Vasilenko, who had turned into Orpheev by that time, moved to Saudi Arabia, where her career as an escort lady began.

The first admirer of the girl was the Saudi prince al-Walid bin Talal.

The first admirer of the girl was the Saudi prince al-Walid bin Talal.
Photo: Facebook
Slavic Scheherazade

In Riyadh, Yana fell in love with the local prince al-Walid bin Talal, who decided to take her to his harem.

Today's harems differ significantly from medieval ones. The girls are rented luxury apartments, they accompany their hosts during their trips and business meetings, and also entertain guests at parties.

By the way, being in a harem, the Ukrainian woman decided on radical changes in her appearance: she enlarged her lips and corrected the oval of her face. And then, and now, Yana strictly monitors her figure: a flat stomach, slender legs, white teeth and long silky hair.



Evil tongues gossip that Prince Yana quickly got bored. Whether it is true or not is not important anymore From the harem, she moved to the palace of a close friend of the prince, a 60-year-old Saudi billionaire. Where she stayed for two whole years, becoming a local legend.

Billionaire's heiress

As Yana's “colleagues” gossip, the billionaire was so fascinated by the sincerity and beauty of the Ukrainian woman that he did not spare any money for her, allowing her to twist ropes from himself. The night, full of passionate pleasures, cost the Saudi $ 50,000, in addition to this, Yana received $ 150,000 in monthly maintenance from her fan.

- I myself saw how she carried money in sacks. And in the end, she took out as much as $ 4 million in cash from Saudi Arabia! - says one of Yana's friends.

But in 2018, the richer died unexpectedly, and Yana had to leave the kingdom. Rumor has it that the beloved wrote the Ukrainian woman in the will, according to which she was to receive $ 200 million. But few people believe in this.

Then she ended up in the harem of his friend, a 60-year-old billionaire ...

Then she ended up in the harem of his friend, a 60-year-old billionaire ...
Photo: Instagram.com
Kind, but mercantile


From Saudi Arabia, Yana moved to the United Arab Emirates, where she found refuge in Dubai in the arms of another prince. However, something went wrong with them, and Orfeeva returned to her homeland.

She wisely invested the money she earned in real estate, acquiring several apartments in Kiev and Moscow. The life of a rentier brings her a good income, which allows her to live for her own pleasure, as well as travel a lot.

Yana is called good, kind and beautiful, but mercantile and spoiled to the bone. Although one can argue about commercialism: Orfeeva helps with money orphanages and hospitals.


While she is single and does not have a serious relationship with anyone. Her main dream is another billionaire, only now as a husband, not a lover.

EXPERT COMMENTARY


Valentina ZAKOTSOLA, marriage and family expert:

A lonely childhood determines their fate



yana.orfeeva
yana.orfeeva

Nammos mykonos

Nammos mykonos
3232Likes
comments


- It is not surprising that a large number of escort girls are from Ukraine. First, the difficult economic situation in this country affects ordinary people. Secondly, Ukrainian women have always been famous for their natural beauty, and young inexperienced girls often stake on this gift, believing that it will bring them happiness. But they do not understand that this approach will affect their personal life in the future.

Quite often, such girls are raised by single mothers who themselves do not live well. Hence the desire to get easy money. Often mothers tell them: “Daughter, the main thing is to get married successfully. Love, of course, is needed, but a good financial situation is more important. "

It is against this background that escort girls form a different understanding of life: they are young, beautiful, they can make money on it, so men owe them. Thus, at the expense of men, they are trying to improve their financial situation. Although many of them do not even understand that they are capable of arranging their own lives, developing, learning. That they are able to be able to attract the attention of worthy men and ultimately become beautiful, smart, loved, wealthy mistresses of their lives.
Lucky bastards...
 

Kaptaan

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But IMO, the whole of modernity(which the modern (nation) state is one of the many parts) eventually leads to destruction in both the pysical and non-physical realm.
I disagree with the premise that modernity is bad. Yes it can be bad but like anything it does not need to be bad. This is a very Luddite way of thinking. It assumes that the past was pristine which is false. The modern world for all it's ill is still far better then it was century ago. The only reason you don't think that is because you have not lived it. The present ugliness you see, you contrast with a mythical pristine past which you have not seen.
 

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