Defence Q&A Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

beijingwalker

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Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

TBS Report

01 October, 2021, 02:40 pm

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Jackdaws

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A couple of years ago the same survey showed majority of Americans believed US was the dominant globle economic power, and their perception had changed completely in just a couple of years.
Exactly. Perceptions change based on a variety of factors including soft power and brand recognition. If you read books like Crichton's Rising Sun written in 1980s talking about Asahi replacing Budweiser; Sony replacing RCA; Toyota & Honda replacing Ford and Chrysler you would be convinced that Japan would take over from the US as the dominant economic superpower. It didn't happen but the perception existed all over the western world, particularly the US.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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I m pretty sure it's no harder than putting humans in space stations and landing on the moon and Mars, we'll see what will happen in a couple of years.
putting humans in space stations don't need 5nm chips, u can use small electron tubes like Soviet instead of chips for your space ship.

Soviet/Russia still can't make Lithography machine till now
 

Viva_vietnamm

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38 billion IP imported.

5 billion IP exported.

It is 7 times less ratio for PRC

One can see what the ratios were for Japan, Germany, Dutch, Taiwan etc in the past.....they needed to be at least 1:1 to have chance at really developing the highest end stuff they still were lacking.

PRC is extremely far away from this as investment wise for its people it is stuck on real estate as the biggest thing by far. Part of its demographic problem in construction being the "Easy job" for its sunset issue of labor, birth rate and retirements.
CNese just like trading, they just want to buy in cheap price and sell in high price, they just want quick money. Thats the reason CN still can't make good cars till now, even poor country like Afganistan also use Toyota Hilux pickup trucks instead of cheap but low quality CN cars.

CN can't even make a proper car, let alone making 5nm lithography machines,composed of tens of thousands of precision parts and hundreds of high-precision sensors, that she can't not buy from ASML due to santion.
 
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beijingwalker

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38 billion IP imported.

5 billion IP exported.

It is 7 times less ratio for PRC

One can see what the ratios were for Japan, Germany, Dutch, Taiwan etc in the past.....they needed to be at least 1:1 to have chance at really developing the highest end stuff they still were lacking.

PRC is extremely far away from this as investment wise for its people it is stuck on real estate as the biggest thing by far. Part of its demographic problem in construction being the "Easy job" for its sunset issue of labor, birth rate and retirements.
So IP means China can't develop fast? can you be not this desperate? China is more and more a domestic consumption driven economy focusing on next generation technology and innovation. Now even Europeans and Americans themselves believe China is a stronger economy, while you cheerleader bunch trying so hard to deny. it's so funny.
 

beijingwalker

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putting humans in space stations don't need 5nm chips, u can use small electron tubes like Soviet instead of chips for your space ship.

Soviet/Russia still can't make Lithography machine till now
China is working on next generation EVs, current generation cars are already very low tech and will be soon a thing of the past. Do you think making cars are more difficult than building large space station and landing vehicles on the moon and Mars?
 

Viva_vietnamm

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China is working on next generation EVs, current generation cars are already very low tech and will be soon a thing of the past. Do you think making cars are more difficult than building large space station and landing vehicles on the moon and Mars?
Do I need to remind u that Soviet collapsed even when she has a big space station ??

building large space station doesn't help anyone to become world’s economic superpower. ASML don't need big space station to make 5nm Lithography machines.
 

beijingwalker

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Do I need to remind u that Soviet collapsed even when she has a big space station ??

building large space station doesn't help anyone to become world’s economic superpower. ASML don't need big space station to make 5nm Lithography machines.
We all know why Soviet Union collapsed, it didn't have a robust manufacturing industry to support their vast military spending, while China is the opposite, China's defence budget ratio to her GDP is very small compare to Russia and US and China has been the top manufacturing nation for 11 consecutive years by 2020.
It's more appropriate to compare today's US to Russia, which lost almost all its industries barring the military, there will be nothing to back up its military in the near future, we can see now US is withdrawing from all over the world, but it's already too late.
 

Nilgiri

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So IP means China can't develop fast? can you be not this desperate? China is more and more a domestic consumption driven economy focusing on next generation technology and innovation. Now even Europeans and Americans themselves believe China is a stronger economy, while you cheerleader bunch trying so hard to deny. it's so funny.

This is my last of few direct replies to you in 2021. You might get one more in 2022

You are putting words in my mouth and I grow tired of the same predictable simpleton mental confusion...with no actual understanding.

It is deja vu.

As for cheerleading bunch trying to deny.... you are on the wrong forum for that.

Over here anyone can see the china section and world sections for themselves and see for themselves the actual realised tendency of cheerleading and worse.

I much prefer to read + interact with people that actually know what they are talking about...

@AlphaMike @VCheng @Viva_vietnamm might find this one interesting to read (it is just part 2):

 

beijingwalker

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Over here anyone can see the china section and world sections for themselves and see for themselves the actual realised tendency of cheerleading and worse.
Not only in this forum, every year new global polls about this come out, less and less people are still confident around the world with each passing year, now even Americans themselve believe China is the leading economic world power, who influenced them?
Of course everyone is entitled to have their own opinions, Indian opinions can be different from Americans, it's very normal.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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We all know why Soviet Union collapsed, it didn't have a robust manufacturing industry to support their vast military spending, while China is the opposite, China's defence budget ratio to her GDP is very small compare to Russia and US and China has been the top manufacturing nation for 11 consecutive years by 2020.
It's more appropriate to compare today's US to Russia, which lost almost all its industries barring the military, there will be nothing to back up its military in the near future, we can see now US is withdrawing from all over the world, but it's already too late.
Okay, supposed that CN still has a robust manufacturing industry (when actually 55% to 60% CN companies/ factories are just zombie companies/ factories that making No profit like Evergrande due to trade war and high labor cost ), so what else CN still can produce and make profit ?? Xiaomi ?? Iphone ?? Tesla cars ?? BMW car ?? Shipping indutry ?? Oh, those companies still stay in CN mainly bcs CN is one of their biggest market and create just few million jobs.

Many factories that suffered from 25% tariff already fled to VN and other ASEAN nations (texture/ auto part/ tire/ phone-chips assembling factories etc).

U keep repeating like parrot that CN still has a robust manufacturing industry, but so what else CN still can produce and make profit except Rare earth mining, Xiaomi, Iphone, Tesla cars, BMW car, Shipping indutry ??

Pls note that CN still can't make 5nm chips for your Xiaomi phones at least in 10 years bcs u can't make lithograpy machines like Soviet/Russia.
 
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beijingwalker

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Okay, supposed that CN still has a robust manufacturing industry (when actually 55% to 60% CN companies/ factories are just zombie companies/ factories that making No profit like Evergrande due to trade war and high labor cost ),
That means over a half of the Chinese companies don't function or lose money, who told you this? if this is the case China's economy will collapse in a days, where can China get so much money to support them?
 

Viva_vietnamm

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That means over a half of the Chinese companies don't function or lose money, who told you this? if this is the case China's economy will collapse in a days, where can China get so much money to support them?
Why I need someone told me ?? Just like in 2020 I already guessed that Evergrande would collapse while No one told me before.

We all know Investors will move their factories/investment to the place where they can make profit, (except those companies that still stay in CN bcs CN is their main market ), they would move all of their factories to VN and other ASEAN nations, India IF CN govt didn't force them to stay to avoid a very high unemployment rate. Of course if those factories are forced to stay in CN, then those factories will have No profit bcs they can not compete with those factories in VN that have lower labor cost plus no 25% tariff.

Pls tell me how can a factory in CN still can survive when they have to pay higher salaries plus higher tax than a same factory in VN when exporting to EU-US ??
 

beijingwalker

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Why I need someone told me ?? Just like in 2020 I already guessed that Evergrande would collapse while No one told me before.
So you guessed by yourself that 55%-60% Chinese companies are not functioning or losing moeny, then where does China get the money to support them, make the country going and get her working population paid, China has universal healthcare and free eduction covering every citizen, where does this money come from?
 

Viva_vietnamm

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So you guessed by yourself that 55%-60% Chinese companies are not functioning or losing moeny, then where does China get the money to support them, make the country going and get her working population paid, China has universal healthcare and free eduction covering every citizen, where does this money come from?
n where does China get the money to support them ?? They get money from their factories in VN but this way can't last forever , thats why CN's birth rate is reducing now bcs salaries from factories that still stay in CN is not enough for them to buy houses and raise kids.
 

beijingwalker

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n where does China get the money to support them ?? They get money from their factories in VN but this way can't last forever ,
Lol, you are joking, aren't you? China uses factories in Vietnam to become the world biggest trading nation, biggest export nation and hoard one third of the world total foreign reserves, do you really believe it yourself?

You should really come to sense a bit, even Chinese individual cities like Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong kong and Chongqing individually has a bigger GDP than Vietnam's, let alone Chinese provinces.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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Lol, you are joking, aren't you? China uses factories in Vietnam to become the world biggest trading nation, biggest export nation and hoard one third of the world total foreign reserves, do you really believe it yourself?

You should really come to sense a bit, even Chinese individual cities like Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong kong and Chongqing individually has a bigger GDP than Vietnam's, let alone Chinese provinces.
trading mean u just buy and sell. in VN CN factories sell products and make profit, but in CN, you sell products but having no or very paper thin profit. (Xiaomi earn 5% profit each phones while Iphone is over 35%).

Biggest trading only mean you sell and buy lots of producs, doesn't mean u make lots of profit. Thats why hundred millions CNese stop having kids bcs they still don't have enough money to raise their kids
 

beijingwalker

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trading mean u just buy and sell. in VN CN factories sell products and make profit, but in CN, you sell products but having no or very paper thin profit. (Xiaomi earn 5% profit each phones while Iphone is over 35%).

Biggest trading only mean you sell and buy lots of producs, doesn't mean u make lots of profit. Thats why hundred millions CNese stop having kids bcs they still don't have enough money to raise their kids
lol, China hits record trade surplus every passing month and now boasts one third of total global foreign reserves, China just became the world biggest outbound investor too, mind to tell us where this tremendous wealth came from, by losing money of most companies and factories?
 

Viva_vietnamm

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lol, China hits record trade surplus every passing month and now boasts one third of total global foreign reserves, China just became the world biggest outbound investor too, mind to tell us where this tremendous wealth came from, by losing money of most companies and factories?
tremendous wealth ?? then why hundred millions CNese still don't have enough money to have kids and raise them, making CN's birth rate keep dropping ?? why still having 600 million CNese earning less than 140 usd per month ??
 

beijingwalker

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tremendous wealth ?? then why hundred millions CNese still don't have enough money to have kids and raise them making CN's birth rate keep dropping ?? why still having 600 million CNese earning less than 140 usd per month ??
Choose not the have kids and enjoy life is a sign of development level, almost all developed economies have this problem for decades already, only super poor countries have super high birth rate, doesn it mean they have more wealth to support more children? Germany and Japan have negative population growth for many years, does it mean they don't have money to support more children?
 
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