Defence Q&A Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

xizhimen

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Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

TBS Report

01 October, 2021, 02:40 pm

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Nilgiri

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How can the largest 'liberal democracy' like India work with a rogue, dictatorial, authoritarian, repressive one party state like Vietnam?

How does every (far stronger and developed) liberal democracy work with Vietnam in the end?...in far larger ways than India?

It is then a matter of degree and spectrum is it not.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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How can the largest 'liberal democracy' like India work with a rogue, dictatorial, authoritarian, repressive one party state like Vietnam?
Bro, VN control abt 60% of SCS(east VN sea) while CN only control abt 13% despite she got support from JP-US since 1978 against VN .

If we cover SCS(east VN sea) with sea mine (with support from India-Russia), then not only the oil tankers from the Middle east can't not reach to CN-TW-SK-JP but also chips from testing factories in Malaysia aslo can not pass through to CN-TW-SK-JP making their economy collapse.

So, its the right choice for India to strongly support VN agaisnt CN-US . If CN-US try to destroy India, then she can ask help from VN to block SCS(east VN sea) to destroy CN's economy and the chips industry.

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While TSMC founder Chang raved about "cheap land and electricity" in the US in a recent speech, he also complained: "We had to work very hard to find technicians. and capable workers".

Mark Liu also noted that costs in the US turned out to be "much higher" than TSMC expected.

All of which point to a localization craze being driven by politics, rather than by science or business. After all, opening fabs in the US affects only a small part of the production process. Today, semiconductors are typically designed in the US, manufactured in Taiwan or South Korea, tested and assembled in Southeast Asia (Malaysia,VN), and then built into products in China. Everything has become extremely specialized. TSMC dominates chip foundry services, and only the Dutch company ASML manufactures the advanced lithography machines on which all its fabs are based.


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xizhimen

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Bro, VN control abt 60% of SCS(east VN sea) while CN only control abt 13%


View attachment 33579
This is true, the western media tries to make it seem that China controls SCS, it is far from the reality. Lies are always pale before the facts.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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This is true, the western media tries to make it seem that China controls SCS, it is far from the reality. Lies are always pale before the facts.
Can't blame them,they only wanna use CN to destroy Soviet. Soviet collapsed, then its time to destroy CN now.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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From chips production process, we can see clearly that both US and CN are not the world’s economic superpower any more.

Dutch company ASML manufactures the advanced lithography machines, US only design the chips, then chips are manufactured in Taiwan or South Korea, tested and assembled in Southeast Asia (Malaysia,VN), and then built into products in China.

SO, US only do the design, thats not so important thing. CN can't make lithography machines and also can't buy lithography machines for 5mn chips due to sanction, so CN only can build the chips into products and thats not so important, too.

So, No more the world’s economic superpower. If CN or US collapse, then another countries will take the chips design and built into products jobs. No one care if US or CN collapse, at least in chips industry. :cool:
 
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xizhimen

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From chips production process, we can see clearly that both US and CN are not the world’s economic superpower any more.

Dutch company ASML manufactures the advanced lithography machines, US only design the chips, then chips are manufactured in Taiwan or South Korea, tested and assembled in Southeast Asia (Malaysia,VN), and then built into products in China.

SO, US only do the design, thats not so important thing. CN can't make lithography machines and also can't buy lithography machines for 5mn chips due to sanction, so CN only can build the chips into products and thats not so important, too.

So, No more the world’s economic superpower. If CN or US collapse, then another countries will take the chips design and built into products jobs. No one care if US or CN collapse, at least in chips industry. :cool:
The monoply will be soon over

The Chinese Academy of Sciences breaks through EUV technology, and the price of ASML lithography machine is urgently reduced

 

Viva_vietnamm

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The monoply will be soon over

The Chinese Academy of Sciences breaks through EUV technology, and the price of ASML lithography machine is urgently reduced

No one can see the real CN lithography machine till now :cool:

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China once went to Germany to observe other people's research, but was told, " Even if we give you a full set of drawings, you can't do it ."
Russia does not have a lithography machine, and 90% of its chips rely on imports. Why are you not afraid of the United States getting stuck?


Lithography
This is not to despise us, but to say that the production lithography machine has extremely high technical requirements . Even if it is a low-end lithography machine, it is also a machine composed of tens of thousands of precision parts and hundreds of high-precision sensors. The most important thing is that its error is almost zero, only one ten thousandth of a hair. .
 

Gary

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There is no doubt that US is a military superpower, but is it still an economic superpower? I highly doubt about it. and economic strength will always eventually decides ones military strength.
yes, and this comes from a country that only have 60% US GDP while having citizens 400% that of the US.
 

xizhimen

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yes, and this comes from a country that only have 60% US GDP while having citizens 400% that of the US.
China now is about 70% of US GDP nominal, on PPP China had overtaken US for many years already, and per capita GDP is not the standard to measure a country's overall strength, otherwise Chinese Macau could be the most powerful place in the world.

And what's your take on the fact that now most Americans themselves see China as a bigger economic power than US?

 

Viva_vietnamm

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I never said now, but soon, we'll see.
How many of tens of thousands of precision parts and high-precision sensors can CN make by it own till now ??

So far, CN sensors suck, just look at your low quality cars and we know how bad CN sensors are.

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Lithography machine has extremely high technical requirements . Even if it is a low-end lithography machine, it is also a machine composed of tens of thousands of precision parts and hundreds of high-precision sensors
 

xizhimen

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How many of tens of thousands of precision parts and high-precision sensors can CN make by it own till now ??

So far, CN sensors suck, just look at your low quality cars and we know how bad CN sensors are.
Which car? Actually most world brand cars have their factories in China, and in recent years , unlike what happened in the past, China consumers buy more domestic cars than foreign brands, consumers vote of confidence speaks more than you and me.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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Which car? Actually most world brand cars have their factories in China, and in recent years , unlike what happened in the past, China consumers buy more domestic cars than foreign brands, consumers vote of confidence speaks more than you and me.
All CN cars have low quality , EU-US don't buy CN cars, even Taliban also use JP Hilux pickup trucks, not CN cars/ pickup trucks.

Back to the topic: How many of tens of thousands of precision parts and high-precision sensors can CN make by it own till now ??
 

xizhimen

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All CN cars have low quality , EU-US don't buy CN cars, even Taliban also use JP Hilux pickup trucks, not CN cars/ pickup trucks.

Back to the topic: How many of tens of thousands of precision parts and high-precision sensors can CN make by it own till now ??
10 years ago no one bought Chinese phones, not even Chinese people, now Chinese phones are everywhere in the world. traditional cars are very low tech, now we are at a trans generational age for cars, we'll see what will happen in a decade.
As for how manhy sensors can China make, I'm not a professional and don't have inside info about it, do you know?
 

Viva_vietnamm

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10 years ago no one bought Chinese phones, not even Chinese people, now Chinese phones are everywhere in the world.
As for how manhy sensors can China make, I'm not a professional and don't have inside info about it, do you know?
U know, smart phones only need to be used in abt 3 years , then people will wanna buy the new ones, so we don't need smart phones thats can be use for 15 to 20 years like cars/pickup trucks. Thats why Chinese low quality phones are acceptable.

But most of people want to use cars/pickup trucks for 15 to 20 years, thats why they buy EU-JP cars like Taliban like to use JP Hilux pickup trucks. Thats why CN cars have no chance to survive outside CN's market .

As for how many sensors can China make, seem like not many sensors CN can make till now. Thats why those CNese who visited Germany to observe other people's research was told, " Even if we give you a full set of drawings, you can't do it ."

This is not to despise us, but to say that the production lithography machine has extremely high technical requirements

 

xizhimen

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xizhimen

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This survey is a matter of perception. And perceptions are based on inherent biases.
A couple of years ago the same survey showed majority of Americans believed US was the dominant globle economic power, and their perception had changed completely in just a couple of years.
 

Nilgiri

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How many of tens of thousands of precision parts and high-precision sensors can CN make by it own till now ??

So far, CN sensors suck, just look at your low quality cars and we know how bad CN sensors are.

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Lithography machine has extremely high technical requirements . Even if it is a low-end lithography machine, it is also a machine composed of tens of thousands of precision parts and hundreds of high-precision sensors

38 billion IP imported.

5 billion IP exported.

It is 7 times less ratio for PRC

One can see what the ratios were for Japan, Germany, Dutch, Taiwan etc in the past.....they needed to be at least 1:1 to have chance at really developing the highest end stuff they still were lacking.

PRC is extremely far away from this as investment wise for its people it is stuck on real estate as the biggest thing by far. Part of its demographic problem in construction being the "Easy job" for its sunset issue of labor, birth rate and retirements.
 

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