Defence Q&A Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

xizhimen

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Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

TBS Report

01 October, 2021, 02:40 pm

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Viva_vietnamm

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So you changed from unemployment to not enough pay so quickly, haha, in Beijing , no one works for a job pays less than 1400 USD per month.
I changed Nothing, I always said CN is just like Lybia where local workers are jobless bcs bosses only hire foreign workers and pay 300 to 500 usd per month like CN is paying Myanmar workers now.

And we all know what happened to Lybia leader :cool:
 

xizhimen

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I changed Nothing, I always said CN is just like Lybia where local workers are jobless bcs bosses only hire foreign workers and pay 300 to 500 usd per month like CN is paying Myanmar workers now.

And we all know what happened to Lybia leader :cool:

China's average salary
The average salary in China ranges from 7,410 Yuan per month (USD 1,145) to 1,31,000 Yuan (USD 20,245) per month — with 7,410 Yuan being the minimum salary and 1,31,100 Yuan being the maximum salar. https://biz30.timedoctor.com/average-salary-in-china/
First tier cities like Beijing and Shanghai make relatively higher salary than other cities.
First tier cities like Beijing and Shanghai make relatively higher salary than other cities.
 

xizhimen

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I changed Nothing, I always said CN is just like Lybia where local workers are jobless bcs bosses only hire foreign workers and pay 300 to 500 usd per month like CN is paying Myanmar workers now.

And we all know what happened to Lybia leader :cool:
Aug. 25, 2021 5:30 am ET
 

xizhimen

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China's stunning export comeback has factories scrambling for workers
By Gabriel Crossley, Stella Qiu
DECEMBER 21, 202011:08 AM

BEIJING (Reuters) - China’s manufacturing recovery, fuelled in part by demand from COVID-constrained consumers abroad, has soared past expectations this year, so much so that factories are now struggling to fill a shortage of blue-collar workers to clear mounting orders.


The country’s output of industrial robots, computer equipment, and integrated circuits has roared back from its coronavirus paralysis - production for the year to November is up 22.2%, 10.1% and 15.9%, respectively.

Much of the manufacturing boom has come from foreign demand, with export growth topping expectations for eight of the last nine months.

The remarkable turnaround comes as China has mostly eradicated the virus and contrasts with the sluggish comebacks seen in major industrialised peers, where factories are still struggling with pandemic disruptions and the hit to demand.

China’s global export share increased to over 13% in the second and third quarters from 11% last year, according to Nomura, the highest for any quarter since at least 2006 when the investment bank started compiling the data.

While emergency stimulus in the United States and Europe pumped money into consumers’ wallets, the fight to contain the virus in those markets fired up demand both for China-made PPE goods and gadgets for westerners stuck at home.

Government data shows that in November there were more people employed in the industrial sector in Jinhua city, which includes the eastern export hub of Yiwu, than there had been at any time since end-2017.


“We laid off about 50 workers in the first half, and now with orders soaring, we’re short of staff and not able to further ramp up production,” said Deng Jinling, who owns a thermal flask factory in Yiwu, selling to the Middle East, United States and Europe.

“We tried hiring dozens of temporary workers but they’re not good enough,” said Deng.

Some workers she laid off have found jobs back home and are not willing to travel back just a few months before the upcoming Lunar New Year holidays in February.

But with clients chasing her heels, Deng bought two automated production lines at the end of November to boost efficiency.

“We’ve never thought about doing this before, but this year has been so busy and we’ve exhausted our options,” she said. “One automated production line is the equivalent of 10 workers.”

A private index by Renmin University tracking demand for blue-collar labour hit a record in the third quarter. Some factory managers have hiked wages by 25% to 10,000 yuan ($1,530) per month, well above the average starting wage for graduates, according to local media.

BEST YEAR
For China’s bicycle industry, 2020 is the best year in a decade, with consumers abroad craving exercise and ways to avoid public transport, said Liang Xiaoling, general manager at Guangzhou-headquartered Trinx Bikes.

“Our capacity maxed out in September and October, and we hired a lot of temporary workers to catch up with the demand,” said Liang, adding that orders are now stretching into 2022.

His factories now employ about 100 extra temporary workers on top of 1,000 or so regular staff.

Although manufacturing investment was slow to recover, falling 3.5% over the first 11 months, strong export demand helped it rebound in the last quarter.

Investment jumped 12.5% year-on-year in November, up from 3.7% in October, according to research from analysts at CICC, an investment bank.


Zhang Qinming, who owns a company manufacturing speakers for European and American markets, says demand is 25% higher than in previous years.

He’s been paying his normal staff overtime to keep up and has also hired temporary workers for about 18-19 yuan an hour, 20% more than his full-time workers. As a last resort, he’s leased other factories to take the load.

LIMITED OPPORTUNITY
A labour crunch isn’t the only constraint.

China’s lopsided trade balance - exporting three containers for every one imported recently - and delays in containers returning to China due to the pandemic overseas, have created severe shipping bottlenecks, now starting to pinch exports.

The yuan is also hovering near multi-year peaks against the dollar, pressuring profits further. And an official gauge of factory raw materials costs reached the highest level since 2017 in November.


Despite the red-hot demand, Liang, of Trinx Bikes, said profits are being squeezed. “Some of our orders are already seeing some losses,” he said.

But for policymakers, the export boom has been a welcome one in a tough year. The surprising resilience of China’s export sector, which employs around 180 million people, has reduced the need for massive stimulus to revive the economy this year, said analysts.

China hit 122% of its annual job creation target by end-November.

But manufacturers don’t expect this boom to last as other economies ramp up production.

“It started with the pandemic, so it will end with the vaccine rollout,” said Liang.

($1 = 6.5372 Chinese yuan)

 

xizhimen

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Many Chinese factories are turning workers free now, just in case for worker shortage.

Visit a household appliances factory in China! This is the dope hi-tech they have there!
During my trip to Suzhou we had the chance to visit Lexy home appliances, one of the many household appliances factories they have here in China! They showed us the incredible technology they use to create a wide variety of household appliances!

A workers free factory

 

Viva_vietnamm

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Aug. 25, 2021 5:30 am ET
How many Chinese workers still can earn 1145usd per month when they are 50 ?? or they were kicked out of the companies when reaching 35 ?:lol:
 

xizhimen

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How many Chinese workers still can earn 1145usd per month when they are 50 ?? or they were kicked out of the companies when reaching 35 ?:lol:
Seems you don't know China has social security system, and poor people and families also got provided by the government. Do you?
 

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Temporary they can not enter VN now due to strict covid control policy, but those jobless CN workers from "super powr nation CN" made too much trouble for VN few months ago :LOL:

----------------------
Why are nearly 1,500 Chinese people illegally entering Vietnam?
11:18, May 6, 2021

Lieutenant General To An Xo talked about the causes, methods and tricks of the Chinese people who illegally entered Vietnam.
Lieutenant General To An Xo, Chief of Office, spokesman of the Ministry of Public Security, said that in the past time, according to reports of local police (with 39/63 provinces reported), the whole country detected 199 cases of entry with illegal immigrants. 1,443 Chinese people illegally entered Vietnam. To date, the Ministry of Public Security has prosecuted 49 cases with 141 people.

"Illegal entry is a violation of Vietnam's sovereignty, carrying pathogens, posing a great risk of disease, affecting the jobs of Vietnamese people," said Lieutenant General To An Xo.

Currently, the Ministry of Public Security is reviewing and basing on reports to clarify methods and tricks of bringing people into the country illegally to prevent.

"You must know the openings to close them," emphasized the Ministry of Public Security spokesman.

According to Lieutenant General To An Xo, the subjects used many methods and tricks to enter the country "underground". Through the detected cases, it can be seen that the brokers are now contacting online to bring people to Vietnam, mainly people entering to find jobs.

"These vagrants are very dangerous,
" said Mr. Xo.

Unauthorized Chinese people were discovered in the Florence apartment building (Hanoi).
The Minister of Public Security has just issued an order to conduct a nationwide review and inspection to detect illegal entry of foreigners.

"For example, checking motels, hotels and accommodation to detect illegal entry. Strengthening border checkpoints, police must step up tracing, prosecute and prosecute resolutely. with illegal entry, brokers and senders, with illegal entry people who do not have COVID-19 will be brought back to the place of origin.

The motels that do not comply with the regulations may withdraw their operating licenses, be administratively sanctioned, and even be criminally handled," said Lieutenant General To An Xo.

According to a spokesman of the Ministry of Public Security, the number of people crossing the border is very high because the border is a long and long road, so it is very easy to cross the border, both the North and the Southwest border. Locking the border is very difficult


Better be prepared to see more try their luck when border is opened:


These are vast life savings of many Chinese people. They put them nearly all into real estate...and looks like a prolonged tumble is going to occur.
 

Kaptaan

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It is human nature, sadly that when we see somebody rise, who we consider a rival or adversary we get jealous. If they rise even higher and faster we burn in jealousy with even greater intensity. We refuse to accept their success and denigrate them, we forecast their imminent fall. This thread is greart exposition of this human trait.

I have followed this and and see the denial, heartburn and prophesises of doom is gushing like as if Mt Krakatoa exploded on epic scale.

This merely reinforces the actual success of China and the economic miracle it it.
 

Nilgiri

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As far as I am concerned, there is just the matter of the good and bad the patricians of any society have done. This is what is to be debated.

Plebs everywhere in the world are generally (collectively) innocent till proven guilty and are all the same worldwide as they are all homo sapiens. One must be neutral to them on first basis....and generally be biased in their favour as a default against the patrician (who requires healthy approach of suspicion as first basis).

Thus issue of jealousy and pride does not enter the equation at these scales when I bring up point to debate.

Jealousy and pride are things aligned with degree of harnessing of truth and falsehood in a society over time and the results it has to show for it....that the individual (if lacking in some mental department generally) seeks comfort in collectivist fashion for emotionalist triumph. The lubrication some souls require to get to the next day.

This is a universal phenomenon as are the potentials for all of humankind to begin with. Countries and identities dont enter here (though some imagine them anyway, out of their own inner void existing for whatever reason).

The success the CCP has had in certain areas means nothing to the 10s of millions it murdered mostly under one despot's ego.

It is a scale found nowhere else in the world....and the despot is still honoured and revered by the CCP ...quite unlike what has happened to the other major two 20th century despots/tyrants.

This is the big problem with totalitarian govt.

No other large country after all would have such a visceral degenerate reaction to a friendly plebiean comparison to winnie the pooh.

Yet the concept of criticizing and making fun of patricians in other parts of the world, is latched onto by the same forces.

This level of hypocrisy here can only be found in a totalitarian system.

Totalitarianism is the anti-thesis of things like courage and sense of humour....and actually any morality or virtue to begin with.

Power is simply for power's sake.

This includes complete control over the last aspect of plebeian right to free and conscious thought.

It didn't matter what an individual Uighur thought of China (much less what he/she did).

It just mattered he/she was Uighur.

@VCheng
 

Gary

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It is human nature, sadly that when we see somebody rise, who we consider a rival or adversary we get jealous. If they rise even higher and faster we burn in jealousy with even greater intensity. We refuse to accept their success and denigrate them, we forecast their imminent fall. This thread is greart exposition of this human trait.

I have followed this and and see the denial, heartburn and prophesises of doom is gushing like as if Mt Krakatoa exploded on epic scale.

This merely reinforces the actual success of China and the economic miracle it it.


History is full of rising powers that challenged the reigning hegemon only to eventually collapses.

Think imperial Japan and imperial Germany.

All follows the same path namely:

1. Earlier meteoric rise of an emerging power.

2. Which in turn worry the ruling hegemon.

3. The hegemon tried to stop the rising power using all available economic and military means, in the case of Anglo-German rivalry prior to WW1, Britain introduced naval laws to ensure the Royal Navy is twice larger than that of Germany, while in the economic front the British empire restricted the use of Siemens the same way today's USA restricted Huawei.

4.the rising power in turn felt insecure because the world are not so welcoming as the earlier years. Suddenly countries are ganging up into a strategic encirclement of the country.

5. Sensing a fast closing windows of opportunities, the rising powers instead of accepting a slow but sure decline usually initiate war. General Tojo justification of war is decline or glory.

eventually this rising powers got defeated by coalition of neighbors felt threatened by its rise.

All of the points are the same for China , Imperial Japan and Imperial Germany.

So yeah continue with the unstoppable rise theory without any credible proof that such possibility exist.
 

Nilgiri

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History is full of rising powers that challenged the reigning hegemon only to eventually collapses.

Think imperial Japan and imperial Germany.

All follows the same path namely:

1. Earlier meteoric rise of an emerging power.

2. Which in turn worry the ruling hegemon.

3. The hegemon tried to stop the rising power using all available economic and military means, in the case of Anglo-German rivalry prior to WW1, Britain introduced naval laws to ensure the Royal Navy is twice larger than that of Germany, while in the economic front the British empire restricted the use of Siemens the same way today's USA restricted Huawei.

4.the rising power in turn felt insecure because the world are not so welcoming as the earlier years. Suddenly countries are ganging up into a strategic encirclement of the country.

5. Sensing a fast closing windows of opportunities, the rising powers instead of accepting a slow but sure decline usually initiate war. General Tojo justification of war is decline or glory.

eventually this rising powers got defeated by coalition of neighbors felt threatened by its rise.

All of the points are the same for China , Imperial Japan and Imperial Germany.

So yeah continue with the unstoppable rise theory without any credible proof that such possibility exist.

Consider that Imperial Japan and Imperial Germany, the eras also afforded fairly autarkic mercantilism.

The world was far less networked in supply chains and labour pools. End-products and resources were all that really mattered....value addition was not really traded and integrated at all (this all happened post WW2 mostly under system US developed and provided assurance for, that it has 50+ years of inertia going for still).

PRC is stuck under a heavy blanket of USD-domination and seignioriage.

They literally have to buy US-debt that they (at least the keeb spammers and selected VPN ambassadors) say is a failure/bad at same time.

Just to subsidise/lubricate labour in a demographic window that is also now going to sunset.

Strangest thing I have ever seen.

BTW....If PRC was a superpower, it can open a banking account for Carrie Lam and prove it in basic way. @500

She will take Yuan even.

Why so scared of what the US will do?
 

Gary

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Consider that Imperial Japan and Imperial Germany, the eras also afforded fairly autarkic mercantilism.

The world was far less networked in supply chains and labour pools. End-products and resources were all that really mattered....value addition was not really traded and integrated at all (this all happened post WW2 mostly under system US developed and provided assurance for, that it has 50+ years of inertia going for still).

PRC is stuck under a heavy blanket of USD-domination and seignioriage.

They literally have to buy US-debt that they (at least the keeb spammers and selected VPN ambassadors) say is a failure/bad at same time.

Just to subsidise/lubricate labour in a demographic window that is also now going to sunset.

Strangest thing I have ever seen.

BTW....If PRC was a superpower, it can open a banking account for Carrie Lam and prove it in basic way. @500

She will take Yuan even.

Why so scared of what the US will do?
It's no surprising that China's rapid growth happened during the time of very favourable western cooperation with China. Which stretch from the time of Deng's economic opening to as recent as 2 years ago before the US goes all out curbing its rise.

Imo, China will still be a big power, but not a superpower let alone hyperpower ( I laugh at this terms) like some of our member like to imagine.
 

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It's no surprising that China's rapid growth happened during the time of very favourable western cooperation with China. Which stretch from the time of Deng's economic opening to as recent as 2 years ago before the US goes all out curbing its rise.

Imo, China will still be a big power, but not a superpower let alone hyperpower ( I laugh at this terms) like some of our member like to imagine.

It just a question of where you put thresholds personally of regional power, major power, superpower, hyperpower etc.

They are just words and personal interpretation/definition in the end.

But the fact remains we are still using occidental terminology/scope (and debate reference)....rather than any oriental one to begin with.

Precedent for that was set long ago in PRC case by it (by way of CCP) adopting Marxism-Leninism (foreign occidental names and concepts) as the asserted+accepted system core...i.e nothing within the oriental system itself was "revolutionary" enough. Over time the "Chinese characteristics" was added like seasoning in the doctrine.

Overall I just see a more multi-polar world this century, this debate not ending (over who is who and where one definition starts and the other begins)...and the US being no.1 power overall foreseeably as long as it better resolves its debt addiction currently.

Rest depends on how China manages its demographic problem it set up for itself (along with the other problems like real-estate monolithism, water, maintaining control of larger Chinese)...and also how India and other large population countries shape up.

US debt addiction and PRC labour subsidy using that debt are actually hand in glove thing status quo wise for both.

Neither side wants to really rock the boat here...and status quo it is big advantage US holds and sustains.

I personally feel PRC is getting into too much trouble prematurely (both regionally and domestically) relative to its economic juncture right now (it still buys 5 times the IP that it sells for example)....and its political system means it is reluctant to correct it too.

I guess let's see.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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Seems you don't know China has social security system, and poor people and families also got provided by the government. Do you?
So, most of CN emplyee will become poor when they r 50 bcs bosses fired them at 35 and they can't find jobs any more and the government has to take care of them ?? :lol:
 
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Viva_vietnamm

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Better be prepared to see more try their luck when border is opened:


These are vast life savings of many Chinese people. They put them nearly all into real estate...and looks like a prolonged tumble is going to occur.
Sure, most of Cnese are so desperate for jobs after bosses fire them at 35 :LOL:
 

Viva_vietnamm

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I personally feel PRC is getting into too much trouble prematurely (both regionally and domestically) relative to its economic juncture right now (it still buys 5 times the IP that it sells for example)....and its political system means it is reluctant to correct it too.

I guess let's see.
CN make money just by begging help and being US's cannon fodder since 1978 to destroy Soviet for US.

18-war-dang-upi.jpg

So, no surprise when PRC is getting into too much trouble prematurely when daddy US abandon her and even slap santion on her
 

VCheng

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Overall I just see a more multi-polar world this century, this debate not ending (over who is who and where one definition starts and the other begins)...and the US being no.1 power overall foreseeably as long as it better resolves its debt addiction currently.

Rest depends on how China manages its demographic problem it set up for itself (along with the other problems like real-estate monolithism, water, maintaining control of larger Chinese)...and also how India and other large population countries shape up.

US debt addiction and PRC labour subsidy using that debt are actually hand in glove thing status quo wise for both.

You highlight the two important issues for both USA and China here. The difference here is that the US issue is eminently resolvable and made easier by the underlying system , whereas the Chinese demographic conundrum is not, and must be endured given the rigidity of its structures.
 

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