TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[GoatsMilk]

When nearly the entire middle east is trying to bury us, especially the arab nations who had no issues inviting Assad back into the Arab league, us Turks would have to be insanely stupid to start a war with Isreal, let the arabs fight that fight. They hated Ottoman rule, they can enjoy an Isreali master instead. Our fight with Isreal should only extend so far as they involve themselves in our security concerns, like dealings with the PKK. Outside of it, leave them and the Arabs to their fate.

 

[Ryder]

When nearly the entire middle east is trying to bury us, especially the arab nations who had no issues inviting Assad back into the Arab league, us Turks would have to be insanely stupid to start a war with Isreal, let the arabs fight that fight. They hated Ottoman rule, they can enjoy an Isreali master instead. Our fight with Isreal should only extend so far as they involve themselves in our security concerns, like dealings with the PKK. Outside of it, leave them and the Arabs to their fate.

Whats interesting is that the Turks are best at warfare.

The Arabs and the Jews can never best us any kind of combat.

Does not mean we underestimate them still we should not be worried at all.

Learn from history the Arabs and their golden days are long gone while the Jews never had a state in history and got constantly owned by everybody.

I believe in the future the Arabs and the Israelis will work against Turkiye.

This is the middle east we are talking about. Iron Fist pragmatism works here.

Lets be honest the Arabs, Jews and the Iranians will not spare any kind of mercy towards us.


I warn Azerbaijanis of this many times when Iran is no longer the threat it is the Israelis will back Armenia.

Balkans, Caucasus and the Middle East are all hot spots of conflict. Then think of North Africa and East Africa also Central Asia.

It feels like Turkiye is close nearly everybody.

Amy of super wonder weapon is needed for deterrance really. Turkiye lives in such a awful neighbourhood with enemies all next door.

No proper weapon deterrants regardless if its big or small is just opening your gates to the flood.

Who can forget the Russian Bear. Bear is getting weakened but a Weakened Bear is still dangerous.

 

[Heartbang]

Amy of super wonder weapon is needed for deterrance really.

Make fucken nukes. a lotta nukes

 

[YeşilVatan]

Whats interesting is that the Turks are best at warfare.

The Arabs and the Jews can never best us any kind of combat.

This is a dangerous mindset. Any ethnic group can do wonders with enough training, manpower, organization, equipment and will to fight. Some cultures might make it hard for these factors to be there, but "Arabs can't fight" is the kind of mentality that lost Russians the 1905 war against Japanese. Whenever you find yourself thinking like this, remember: Turks were seen just as inept in the 19th century. In fact, most westerners still think Turkish military is an unprofessional joke.

Underestimating your enemy brings defeat. It brings shame and loss. Don't do it.

 

[Oublious]

Even if it is a competitor, it should be appreciated when it is appropriate.The layered air defense network they have makes it difficult to deter them.Not to mention the air force they have.They have as many F-16s as we do.They are better in quality than what we have. And since they are USA's little brother, they have less trouble integrating their own ammunition thinking of us.If we add the F15 and F35s to the equation, everything becomes more difficult.They also have systems like Lora and Jericho to deter us.As you said, there seems to be nothing we can do in the short term but in the medium-long term, we can bring this to a balance indeed.One of the things that needs to be done is to develop a doctrine that will cost expensive air defense missiles with a large number of false targets and support it with long-range anti-radiation missiles.They have a weak navy.Necessary deterrence can be provided by the Reis class submarines that will be completely included in the inventory in the short term and the cruise missiles that can be launched from these submarines.For the air force, as Afif said, we have to wait for the Kaan fleets to step in. But even if we have 10-12 fleets of Kaan, we cannot talk about a complete superiority. Until Kaan arrives, the most logical move would be to lay our southern border with Siper and its components.

They never faced a strong airforce, ther airdefence network against hizbies and hamas . Beside that the enemy attacking from 1 direction. Ther airforce is strong and thats it. What i mean is let them use ther equipments against a strong EW army and lets talk aftermath. Don't compare our doctrine with ther counter terror army.

 

[Ryder]

This is a dangerous mindset. Any ethnic group can do wonders with enough training, manpower, organization, equipment and will to fight. Some cultures might make it hard for these factors to be there, but "Arabs can't fight" is the kind of mentality that lost Russians the 1905 war against Japanese. Whenever you find yourself thinking like this, remember: Turks were seen just as inept in the 19th century. In fact, most westerners still think Turkish military is an unprofessional joke.

Underestimating your enemy brings defeat. It brings shame and loss. Don't do it.

We were inept at the time but guess what we got defeated by the British, French and the Russians.

Not the Ethnic groups who rebelled against us.

Nothing to do with underestimation. Its all about who will best at each other in combat.

Also having the best weapons. Lets be honest we have too many enemies who will try to eat us up.

Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Iranians, Israelis and the Saudis wont spare any mercy.

We seen it numerous times thats why I believe Turkiye should get its own moab. This moab should be better.

 

[Bürküt]

They never faced a strong airforce, ther airdefence network against hizbies and hamas . Beside that the enemy attacking from 1 direction. Ther airforce is strong and thats it. What i mean is let them use ther equipments against a strong EW army and lets talk aftermath. Don't compare our doctrine with ther counter terror army.

I don't know what to say.Didn't Israel fight in 1948 1956 1967 1973 2006?Aren't they constantly bombing Syria despite the air defense systems in there?These men fought no less than we did.You say they did not face a strong air force. How much did we face then?We didn't even know if aim120's would work until we sent them to Syrian aircraft in the 2010s.

 

[Oublious]

I don't know what to say.Didn't Israel fight in 1948 1956 1967 1973 2006?Aren't they constantly bombing Syria despite the air defense systems in there?These men fought no less than we did.You say they did not face a strong air force. How much did we face then?We didn't even know if aim120's would work until we sent them to Syrian aircraft in the 2010s.

You give past wars as example, dumb Arab armies who sell each others . the six day war should be given example. But thats another story, we did not face a strong airforece neither but i am not overhyping Israel.How do ther airdefence systems work in a EW attack? You don't now untill you see it. So stop overhyping.

 

[Heartbang]

Aren't they constantly bombing Syria despite the air defense systems in there?

Despite the Russian air defence systems. Owned and controlled by Russia. And completely within Russia's knowledge.

Might as well treat those air defence systems as nonexistent.

 

[Afif]

How do ther airdefence systems work in a EW attack? You don't now untill you see it. So stop overhyping.

Well, even without overhyping they have the most comprehensive AD solution in the world after USA.


1. Barak-8 and spider families for lower tier defence. (Both systems are combat proven)

2. Devid's sling is for medium tier defence and considered superior to Patriot PAC-3. (Dual pulse motor+booster and dual mode AESA+IIR seeker. For now, only one system with such combined capabilities is in active service in whole world)

All three systems uses different variants of ELM-2084 4-D GaN based AESA radar.

Israelis pioneered in GaN based AESA and electronic warfare technologies before UK or France.


3. Finally, they have arrow-3 is (has similar role to SM-3) for higher tier defence.

Which uses EL/M-2080 Green Pine ultra-long range high altitude strategic radar.

"The design of Arrow 3 promises to be an extremely capable system, more advanced than what we have ever attempted in the U.S. with our programs. This has to do with the seekers that have greater flexibility and other aspects, such as propulsion systems – it will be an extremely capable system."

— Lieutenant General Patrick J. O'Reilly, Director of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency, [8] (2009)


As you can see it is considered superior to even SM-3.





Now, let's compare to Turkish AD systems development.


1. Hisar family is similar to Spider family.

HİSAR O+'da envantere giriş öncesi son kabul atışı yapıldı

SSB Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir:Savunma sanayiimiz bir başarıya daha imza attı!Milli hava savunma füze sistemimiz HİSAR O+ envantere giriş öncesi son kabu...

youtu.be

HİSAR O+ Sistemi’nin ilk RF arayıcı başlıklı test füzesi atışı

Savunma Sanayii Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir: “HİSAR O+ Sisteminin ilk RF (Radyo Frekansı) Arayıcı Başlıklı Test Füzesi atışında hedef imha edildi ve hava ...

youtu.be

2. SIPER first two blocks are similar to BARAK-8 family.

SIPER at Final Test Fire

Turkish Long Range Air Defence System Siper passed the last test fire. President of Defence Industry Agency İsmail Demir announced the test.

youtu.be

3. By 2028 Siper will have block iii. Which should have similar capability to Devid's sling. (Aselsan is developing a dual mode seeker for the interceptor as well as more capable radar than ERIS)


4. Beyond 2030, hopefully Turkey will have similar system to Arrow-3.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Despite the Russian air defence systems. Owned and controlled by Russia. And completely within Russia's knowledge.

Might as well treat those air defence systems as nonexistent.

We heard lots of bullshit about the invincibility of Russian air defences in syria. I remember Obama claiming the mighty USA couldnt do anything because of those air defences. Then the media and nations who have an issue with Turks used to boast and gloat towards us that northern syrian airspace was closed because of Russian air defences.

Then the Russians made a fatal mistake, they bombed Turkish troops in idlib. What came after smashed Russian myths over air defences. Their systems continued to get pounded by Turkish drones in Libya, Azerbaijan and then into Ukraine.

Watching how things panned out for Russia in Ukraine, they are lucky that the incident didn't turn into a full scale war with Turkiye, because the Turkish army would have removed their entire presence from Syria with relative ease.

What Ukraine lacks is that they don't have the range of EW systems Turkiye has, to blind and jam russian radars.

If you think about it killing those Turkish troops set off a costly chain reaction against Russia. Stopped in Idlib, Stopped in Tripoli, Armenia crushed, and failing to take Kiev early turning a 3 day war into a nightmare that may last many more years for them ultimately gaining nothing from it in the end.

 

[Oublious]

SA.


1. Barak-8 and spider families for lower tier defence. (Both systems are combat proven)

Against hizbies and hamas yes...

Nobody is comparing Turkish products with Israelish, everything you will come up will not change the fact they did not faced EW. When you put to the limits ther mythologies will be busted like ther radios .



After kicking Elbit out of the game now L3Harris.

L3Harris instead of Aselsan: Ukrainian Armed Forces change Turkish radio stations to American ones

https://en.topwar.ru/181378-l3harris-vmesto-aselsan-vsu-menjaet-tureckie-radiostancii-na-amerikanskie.html https://www.c4defence.com/ukrayna-telsizler-icin-ana-tedarikci-olarak-abdyi-secti/

defencehub.live

This is a example what i mean, should not accept everyhting you get from israel systems. I did not even compared systems, i wrote not to overhype ther weapons.

 

[Afif]

Against hizbies and hamas yes...

Barak-8 shot down an Iskander missile during Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict.

(And the video of Barak-8 ER that I shared, clearly shows hit to kill successful interception against ballistic target.)

Nobody is comparing Turkish products with Israelish, everything you will come up will not change the fact they did not faced EW. When you put to the limits ther mythologies will be busted like ther radios.

Nor did Turkish air defence systems faced any actual EW attack scenario.
But that does not necessarily make them bad, does it?

After kicking Elbit out of the game now L3Harris.

L3Harris instead of Aselsan: Ukrainian Armed Forces change Turkish radio stations to American ones

https://en.topwar.ru/181378-l3harris-vmesto-aselsan-vsu-menjaet-tureckie-radiostancii-na-amerikanskie.html https://www.c4defence.com/ukrayna-telsizler-icin-ana-tedarikci-olarak-abdyi-secti/

defencehub.live

This is a example what i mean, should not accept everyhting you get from israel systems. I did not even compared systems, i wrote not to overhype ther weapons.

There is no mentioned of Elbit system getting kicked out of anything in the source that you shared.

 

[Oublious]

Barak-8 shot down an Iskander missile during Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict.

(And the video of Barak-8 ER that I shared, clearly shows hit to kill successful interception against ballistic target.)



Nor did Turkish air defence systems faced any actual EW attack scenario.
But that does not necessarily make them bad, does it?




There is no mentioned of Elbit system getting kicked out of anything in the source that you shared.

Did not now that they have used against BM in Azerbadjian, i did not wrote they are bad. I am repeating my self, do not overhype Israelish equipments against Turkish products and that was to another member. And elbit was the first 1 kicked out of the game, you can google it.

 

[TsumugiShirogane]

Going up against F-35I and F-15EX.. With the jet whose engine will somehow come out before 2040ies, with the economy as is, and bleeding engineers to ASML, with no partners in the project, and the specs will somehow rival that of F-22/35, despite even the US facing numerous problems along the way with three decades of stealth experience.. LOL! Yeah we'll wipe the floor sure. If it wasn't for Afif and a few other guys this forum would be a circlejerk of dreaming clowns. You know how many Mossad sleeper cells are even in this country with around 10 million unknown illegals?

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

(Both systems are combat proven)

An Indian Spyder system was responsible for a friendly kill against an Mi-17 on Feb 19. Its not immune

imo integrating existing Air Defence systems is just as if not more important than acquiring more capable platforms.

 

[AzeriTank]

When Ismail Demir and Murat Ikinci were talking about mass production of Tufan, i think they were giving the message to Israel(obviousl to others too) that any country try to get air deffence missiles from abroad wouldnt be able to match with the numbers Turkey can provide, and Temel Kotil mentioned that its all produced with robots(may be 3d for fast construction.). The biggest problem of Israel, they got small land and limited air fields that would be the first Target. Thats the reason they couldnt attack Iran.
Turkey got Ballictic missiles, cruise missiles, kamikaze drones, stealth and other drones, plus EW attacks got enough range to reach there. no country can withstand to such attack. Dont get me wrong, i dont say Turkey needs to attack, but you carry weapon to protect yourself just in case.
Israel got good air force, nice air deffence, but how long? their most important Iron dome only last 1-2 weeks and they immediately ask US to send it to them.
Iran couldnt even stop latest drone attacks on its drone manufacturing facility, day after day. how you compare it to Turkey? Their only damage would be the ballistic missiles, but what after that? after every lunch, those drones flying around would destroy those launchers.
Iran doesnt even have normal air force, just check age of their jets.

 

[Era_shield]

Nor did Turkish air defence systems faced any actual EW attack scenario.

Did you just phase in from another dimension? In Syria, Libya, Azerbaycan and Ukraine, Turkish defence products have faced EW and have been continuously refined from those experiences.

 

[Afif]

Did you just phase in from another dimension? In Syria, Libya, Azerbaycan and Ukraine, Turkish defence products have faced EW and have been continuously refined from those experiences.

So i specifically said, if Turkish AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMS (HISAR A+ and HISAR O+) faced any actual EW attack scenario.

Bacause to my best knowledge, they weren't deployed in active combat duty yet.

If you have reliable info suggesting otherwise it would be helpful if you share it.

 

[Era_shield]

So i specifically said, if Turkish AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMS (HISAR A+ and HISAR O+) faced any actual EW attack scenario.

Bacause to my best knowledge, they weren't deployed in active combat duty yet.

If you have reliable info suggesting otherwise it would be helpful if you share it.

TSK aren't advertising it but we know they are being used because video of a Korkut operating in Libya leaked a few years ago. Also, offensive operations against other AD systems by our drones and our own EW systems also feeds back into our own AD systems and their counter-EW algorithms.