TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[UkroTurk]

Why would they need new radar seeker for new a2a missile? Gökhan and gökdoğan doesn't matter, same seeker will work. Maybe they are developing AESA ?

 

[Kaan Azman]

Gökhan (The only project we know thus the most likely)
Some missile based on HİSAR RF (Totally a good freaking idea when you consider dual pulse and overall longer range compared to surface launched Gökdoğan)

But again, what the hell is SAPAN 2 about if its quadpacked HİSAR D RF, I swear to god I will stand at the ROKETSAN stand in SAHA EXPO if I have to

 

[boredaf]

We really need to come up with proper naming system for our missiles, hell, most of our products. This giving them all an individual name stuff isn't really working up, its just muddying the waters.

I mean, if I told you MKE is producing Ilgaz, can you guess what that is?

Spoiler: It is

a 25 mm cannon.

No idea why they felt the need to name it as it is just a licensed product.

 

[Shtr]

I am pretty much sad about Gokhan. After a long break we have heard some news from Sage about Kizilgoz but still waiting something about Gokhan.

I bet there are some people close to SAGE and or some other institutions. Can someone give some information about it? The first RAMJET prototype was targeted to 2022 and we are almost 2025 and still no news.

 

[Strong AI]

AFAIK the first Ramjet test was in 2022 at Tayfun Aeroitki.
Some members here forget, that they don't have to announce everything.

 

[BaburKhan]

Meanwhile Defence Turk published an Article about AGRAS-200AA Seeker for the long-range AAM they work on. It is described that they Work on Missiles with Ranges that our Aircraft need not to enter the enemy Air Defence Zone to engage the Targets. For me it sounds not like a AA Missile with 200 km like Gökhan in Class of the Meteor.


Targets in enemy Air Space mean high Value Air Assests like Tankers, AWACS, MPA a.o Support Aircraft. The Interests in north Africa and the Conflicts in the eastern Mediterranean make sophisticated AA/AD Capabillities neccasarry.

Daha uzun menzilli hava-hava füzeleri için çalışmalar sürüyor

GÖKDOĞAN’dan daha uzun menzilli hava -hava füzesi için Radar Arayıcı Başlık geliştirilmesi çalışmaları ASELSAN tarafından sürdürülmekte.

www.defenceturk.net

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1834669950507556901

 

[Sanchez]

Meanwhile Defence Turk published an Article

Please read the above replies and the last page, no need to post the same thing multiple times, discussions can move forward as quotes

 

[UkroTurk]

I guess Hisar-D will have AESA seeker.
First the Japanese started equipp missiles with AESA seekers.

AAM-4 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

XRIM-4 – Naval surface-launched variant, project was previously canceled but effectively resurrected in 2016.[9]

Type 03 Chū-SAM - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

İmages were translated by Google lens

 

[Radonsider]

Bit offtopic to the current discussion, but it seems to me that we can actually quadpack Siper Ü-1 if we design a narrower-taller booster. Siper Ü-1 is 238mm without booster (slimmer than the ESSM with 254mm) and 370mm with that chunky-short booster.


I want to see that quadpackable 100+km missile ASAP

 

[Kaan Azman]

Tried that on blender, actually possible dimmensionally speaking


One magazine even threw in the idea of a booster ESSM

 

[uçuyorum]

It's not enough to fit the missile, you need to have room for exhaust fumes and their exit.

 

[Kaan Azman]

as long as you keep the packed diameter within the canister boundaries it is alright dimmensionally.

But shift in the centre of gravity and stabiliy with a radically different booster is the next stage of this enginieering problem

 

[Radonsider]

It's not enough to fit the missile, you need to have room for exhaust fumes and their exit.

Exhaust gases are extracted via the trench between the VLS cells, so your constraint is length of the cell.

 

[Radonsider]

as long as you keep the packed diameter within the canister boundaries it is alright dimmensionally.

But shift in the centre of gravity and stabiliy with a radically different booster is the next stage of this enginieering problem

Yep, I guess it is up to TN actually wanting that capability. I don't think Roketsan would bother with it without TN wanting it? Hopefully I am just wrong...

 

[UkroTurk]

Bit offtopic to the current discussion, but it seems to me that we can actually quadpack Siper Ü-1 if we design a narrower-taller booster. Siper Ü-1 is 238mm without booster (slimmer than the ESSM with 254mm) and 370mm with that chunky-short booster.


I want to see that quadpackable 100+km missile ASAP

No worries,
you will get quad packed-100km range-missiles without booster.
Look at the catalogue. Siper 1 Range with booster is 150km.

@Yasar_TR Dear the info in the catalogue is accurate?Does Siper1 have max range 150km?

 

[Yasar_TR]

No worries,
you will get quad packed-100km range-missiles without booster.
Look at the catalogue. Siper 1 Range with booster is 150km.
View attachment 70869

@Yasar_TR Dear the info in the catalogue is accurate?Does Siper1 have max range 150km?

Siper missiles are solid fuelled dual pulsed rocket engined missiles produced by Roketsan.
Roketsan has given 100km range for the Block-1 and 150km range for the block-2 missiles.
Aselsan is not the missile manufacturer per se. They are responsible for guidance and electronics and are coproducers with Roketsan of the Siper System with the help of Tubitak Sage. However if you read Aselsan’s document on Siper, it gives you an overall system maximum range of 150 km. That is correct as the system uses the same canister and hardware for Block-1 and Block-2 missiles.

Block-1 missile has a diameter that may allow it to be quadpackable.
Yet the Block-2 missile seems too wide for quadpackability. But could be dual packed.

 

[Anmdt]

Bit offtopic to the current discussion, but it seems to me that we can actually quadpack Siper Ü-1 if we design a narrower-taller booster. Siper Ü-1 is 238mm without booster (slimmer than the ESSM with 254mm) and 370mm with that chunky-short booster.


I want to see that quadpackable 100+km missile ASAP

Been telling this since the first day. Hisar-D B2 will be as capable as Siper-B1 in terms of guidance, all they need is a narrow booster capable of TVC if the flight stability matters.
It is more logical to introduce an ER version of Hisar-D B2 than reworking on Siper-B1 for quadpacking.

 

[UkroTurk]

Been telling this since the first day. Hisar-D B2 will be as capable as Siper-B1 in terms of guidance......

It is more logical to introduce an ER version of Hisar-D B2 than reworking on Siper-B1 for quadpacking.

+100 there are also disadvantages of boosters however 70km range is ideal for a frigate.

 

[chngr]

View attachment 70870 Siper missiles are solid fuelled dual pulsed rocket engined missiles produced by Roketsan.
Roketsan has given 100km range for the Block-1 and 150km range for the block-2 missiles.
Aselsan is not the missile manufacturer per se. They are responsible for guidance and electronics and are coproducers with Roketsan of the Siper System with the help of Tubitak Sage. However if you read Aselsan’s document on Siper, it gives you an overall system maximum range of 150 km. That is correct as the system uses the same canister and hardware for Block-1 and Block-2 missiles.

Block-1 missile has a diameter that may allow it to be quadpackable.
Yet the Block-2 missile seems too wide for quadpackability. But could be dual packed.
View attachment 70871

Not even dual packed...Siper B2 too big, much bigger than SM-2...most likely more than 1 tones

i think we will see much more than 150km, when tests end..

 

[Yasar_TR]

Not even dual packed...Siper B2 too big, much bigger than SM-2...most likely more than 1 tones

i think we will see much more than 150km, when tests end..

It all depends on how big a canister size MIDLAS can accommodate.

If MIDLAS is same size as MK41 VLS System, then even Siper Block-1 will not fit in dual packed; never mind quadpacked.

SM2 missile is 34.3 cm in diameter. And it only just manages to fit inside MK41 as a dual packed missile. (pls see below)
MK41 has 26 x 26 inch (66 x 66 cm) dimensions. But can only have available space of 21 x 21 inch (53.4 x 53.4 cm) for missiles.
In the SM2’s case, 34.3 x 34.3 cm in dual packed; In ESSM’s case 25.4 x 25.4 cm in quad packed .

Our Siper Block-1 is 37 cm in diameter. The canister size is given as 85 x 80 cm. 42cm diameter missile should, logically, fit in to that canister in dual packed form. But we do not know if the canisters they are quoting, are also to be used in our VLS.

May be @Anmdt can shed some light in to this dilemma.


SM2 DUAL PACKED in MK41

ESSM QUAD PACKED in MK41 VLS