TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Strong AI]

Taurus for example have a Range up to 500 km. The Range of 250 km is still enough for the Threats in the Aegean. We need Cruise Missiles with a greater Range, this is becoming more important since the Fall of the Assad Regime in Syria and the growing israeli Threat. When it's launched from Stealth UCAV's like Anka-3 or Kizilelma the Range of 250 km is still sufficient. When it's launched from F-16 or F-4E 2020, against Israel it is not enough !

Gezgin will be in blocks. The first block is a joint cruise missile that both land, air, and naval forces will use. There is a length and weight limit due to air launch capability.

Gezgin block 1 weighs 1130-1140kg/2500 lbs ( It is related to F-16 pylon load limits. I'm nearly certain, but it is not officially confirmed, so take it as a speculation if you will). Kara Atmaca can reach 500km and has a weight of 890kg, which roughly translates to 2000 lbs, so this might also get air launch capability. We know Roketsan is working on an air-launched variant of Atmaca. Gezgin is 250kg heavier compared to Kara Atmaca, and Gezgin has/will have an engine with better fuel efficiency.

 

[TheInsider]

KTJ 3200 has a service life of 17 hours and consumes roughly 271 kg of fuel per hour at max thrust. SOM uses JP-10 fuel with a density of 0.94 g/cm^3. 271 kg of JP-10 fuel needs a volume of 288 liters. This is a problem as SOM is 4 meters long and you need something like 200cm x 40cm x 38cm. This doesn't look like possible if we also take warhead and engine (KTJ 3200 is 63cm long) to account. Less than half of that might be realistic, a fuel depot that can hold something like 100-120kg of JP-10. This is enough for 25 minutes of engine operation. This means roughly 450km range at Mach 0.8-0.9.

 

[zio]

KTJ 3200 has a service life of 17 hours and consumes roughly 271 kg of fuel per hour at max thrust. SOM uses JP-10 fuel with a density of 0.94 g/cm^3. 271 kg of JP-10 fuel needs a volume of 288 liters. This is a problem as SOM is 4 meters long and you need something like 200cm x 40cm x 38cm. This doesn't look like possible if we also take warhead and engine (KTJ 3200 is 63cm long) to account. Less than half of that might be realistic, a fuel depot that can hold something like 100-120kg of JP-10. This is enough for 25 minutes of engine operation. This means roughly 450km range at Mach 0.8-0.9.

One step forward to strategic level,that is 450-500 kg warhead to 500km range.

 

[Yasar_TR]

KTJ 3200 has a service life of 17 hours and consumes roughly 271 kg of fuel per hour at max thrust. SOM uses JP-10 fuel with a density of 0.94 g/cm^3. 271 kg of JP-10 fuel needs a volume of 288 liters. This is a problem as SOM is 4 meters long and you need something like 200cm x 40cm x 38cm. This doesn't look like possible if we also take warhead and engine (KTJ 3200 is 63cm long) to account. Less than half of that might be realistic, a fuel depot that can hold something like 100-120kg of JP-10. This is enough for 25 minutes of engine operation. This means roughly 450km range at Mach 0.8-0.9.

I don’t know how you got the value of 271kg of fuel usage per hour. That is very low. If true that is great. Because according to Kale’s own site this engine uses 1.18 kg of fuel per decaNewton thrust. As it has 320 deca newton of total thrust it should use 377kg of fuel per hour. That includes the fuel used in lubricating the engine during operation.

All values open to public regarding SOM are very vague. Even the length of the missile is not exact. (~4m) . The heaviest version of SOM is 660kg. Standard SOM is ~600kg. Take away the engine (50kg) and explosives (230kg), you end up with 320kg (or 380kg for the heavier version). The empty lighter missile and fuel has to be 320kg. So it doesn’t leave much room for fuel. Your 100-120kg of fuel weight however seems realistic in view of the weights that we know. But if 1.18kg/hr/decaNewton value is correct, then ~ 330km range is more plausible.

Just to add, I remember being discussed at “Key-Aero” about the empty weights of a1000+kg JASSM and a 1400kg Taurus missiles being around 500kg and 800kg respectively. SOM is much smaller. But still, the 320kg doesn’t leave much room for fuel and a body; even if it is mainly composites.

 

[TheInsider]

I don’t know how you got the value of 271kg of fuel usage per hour. That is very low. If true that is great. Because according to Kale’s own site this engine uses 1.18 kg of fuel per decaNewton thrust. As it has 320 deca newton of total thrust it should use 377kg of fuel per hour. That includes the fuel used in lubricating the engine during operation.

All values open to public regarding SOM are very vague. Even the length of the missile is not exact. (~4m) . The heaviest version of SOM is 660kg. Standard SOM is ~600kg. Take away the engine (50kg) and explosives (230kg), you end up with 320kg (or 380kg for the heavier version). The empty lighter missile and fuel has to be 320kg. So it doesn’t leave much room for fuel. Your 100-120kg of fuel weight however seems realistic in view of the weights that we know. But if 1.18kg/hr/decaNewton value is correct, then ~ 330km range is more plausible.

Just to add, I remember being discussed at “Key-Aero” about the empty weights of a1000+kg JASSM and a 1400kg Taurus missiles being around 500kg and 800kg respectively. SOM is much smaller. But still, the 320kg doesn’t leave much room for fuel and a body; even if it is mainly composites.

View attachment 75632

It is operated at %80 of the thrust most of the cruise phase to sustain the cruise speed. Only acceleration and final terminal approach uses the full 3200 N thrust. At %80 thrust fuel consumption value is different. I might be wrong on 271 kg due to it being hearsay(i heard from someone in the business but needs confirmation) but i know it is significantly lower than the quoted 377kg. (1.18x320)

Even with the same consumption value of 1.18, at 80% thrust, it will consume roughly 300 kg of fuel in an hour of operation.

 

[Sanchez]

But, we haven’t heard of further development of Cirit for years. I think it’s an evolutionary deadend at this point, probably too expensive. Wish they also studied a AKPWS like kit solution to lower the costs.

"General Kurilla says that APKWS is responsible for 40% of the UAS kills in CENTCOM's AOR"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1932482243642962281

 

[Strong AI]

"General Kurilla says that APKWS is responsible for 40% of the UAS kills in CENTCOM's AOR"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1932482243642962281

Akdoğan maybe?
But imo it will be more expensive.

 

[Quasar]

Cirit

 

[Strong AI]

ÇAKIR Cruise Missile Low-Altitude Flight and Autonomous Target Acquisition Firing Test
Bull's Eye

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1933801815721529813

 

[Strong AI]

The aging of our airforce fleet is forcing us to go Iran route, namely, missile proliferation. It should be a short-term solution, hopefully.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1934643246346449400

I have a feeling that we will see a Cenk test in the coming weeks or even days.

Let's remember Tayfun.

"TARGET TYPE
AIR DEFENSE MISSILE SYSTEMS, SOFT
ARMORED AND NON-ARMORED WEAPON
SYSTEMS, COMMAND AND CONTROL
CENTERS, MILITARY AIRCRAFT HANGARS,
CRITICAL MILITARY FACILITIES,
STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES"

https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/2024/1726596010_tayfun.pdf

 

[Strong AI]

"TARGET TYPE
AIR DEFENSE MISSILE SYSTEMS, SOFT
ARMORED AND NON-ARMORED WEAPON
SYSTEMS, COMMAND AND CONTROL
CENTERS, MILITARY AIRCRAFT HANGARS,
CRITICAL MILITARY FACILITIES,
STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES"

This is how i understand the concept of Tayfun.
If the enemy has a good AD network, Tayfun will be used against those AD systems to open a window for other BMs/Jets/UCAVs.
Of course for that to happen, we need a strong intelligence gathering capability. I assume the easiest way would be to use satellites for that. So we should heavily invest in satellites too.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

I have a feeling that we will see a Cenk test in the coming weeks or even days.

Let's remember Tayfun.

View attachment 75870

"TARGET TYPE
AIR DEFENSE MISSILE SYSTEMS, SOFT
ARMORED AND NON-ARMORED WEAPON
SYSTEMS, COMMAND AND CONTROL
CENTERS, MILITARY AIRCRAFT HANGARS,
CRITICAL MILITARY FACILITIES,
STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES"

https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/2024/1726596010_tayfun.pdf

The problem is that did Turkiye do this test with GPS or with just INS? Because in case of war, gps will not work since we don't have our own 'gps' .
Aslo, are those BM of Turkiye any better than Iran’s? Can they overcome thaad and arrow 3 ?
Otherwise they are not any good. zthey should be hyspersonic and manoeuvrable to bypass anti BM systems.

 

[Strong AI]

The problem is that did Turkiye do this test with GPS or with just INS m Because in case of war gps will not work since we dont have our own 'gps' .
Aslo are those BM of Rurkiye any better than iran , can they overcome thaad and arrow 3 ?
Otherwise they are not any good , they should ve hyspersonic , maneuverable to bypass anti BM systems

I don't know if that test was without GNSS guidance.
But Roketsan BMs have several navigation systems on board. It doesn't only rely on GNSS.

Roketsan - Navigation Systems

www.roketsan.com.tr

Officials told that Tayfun will be able to maneuver and reach hypersonic cruise speeds to minimize risk of interception by ADs.
Also from this point on turkish BMs will get better and reach greater ranges.

"GUIDANCE: GO-ONTO-LOCATION IN-SPACE (GOLIS)"

"The TAYFUN Missile System offers high levels of reliability and strike power against deep targets. Its
hypersonic cruise speed is unaffected by air defence systems, while collateral damage is reduced through
its high accuracy."

https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/2024/1726596010_tayfun.pdf

 

[TheInsider]

The problem is that did Turkiye do this test with GPS or with just INS? Because in case of war, gps will not work since we don't have our own 'gps' .
Aslo, are those BM of Turkiye any better than Iran’s? Can they overcome thaad and arrow 3 ?
Otherwise they are not any good. zthey should be hyspersonic and manoeuvrable to bypass anti BM systems.

Tayfun has GPS-independent guidance.

 

[mehmed beg]

Pakistani Fatah can be handy.
Especially in well prepared positions in Northern Syria.
Let Moshe think about something, without spending the fortune.

 

[No Name]

Does Turkey have anything close to Iran's Fattah?​

 

[mTT]

Does Turkey have anything close to Iran's Fattah?​

CENK (Estimated Data)
Range: 1500+ km
Missile weight: 4000-5000 kg
Radius of action: ≥ 500 m
Hypersonic speed
Accuracy (CEP): ≤ 10 m
Composite solid fuel

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1934667658265583980

 

[Sanchez]

Indonesia and the AH140 based Merah Putih frigate will be the launch customer of Atmaca VL. And also the first export of MIDLAS?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1934960491689877601

 

[mTT]

ROKETSAN

Platformlar - Türkçe	Platforms - English
Tayfun silah sistemi	Tayfun weapon system
Bora silah sistemi	Bora weapon system
Çok namlulu roketatar	Multiple rocket launcher
Tank çıkarma gemileri	Tank landing ships
Silahlı insansız deniz aracı	Armed unmanned surface vessel
Tekerlekli, paletli araç	Wheeled and tracked vehicle
İnsansız kara aracı	Unmanned ground vehicle
Döner kanatlı	Rotary-wing
Su üstü araçlar	Surface vessels
Denizaltı	Submarine
Üç ayak	Tripod
Omuzdan atım	Shoulder-launched
Sabit kanatlı	Fixed-wing
Taarruzi insansız hava aracı	Armed unmanned aerial vehicle
Silahlı insansız hava aracı	Armed drone
İHA	UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle)
Sabit lançer	Fixed launcher
Muharip uçak	Combat aircraft

LINE	COLOR
Torpedo	Red
Rocket	Purpl
Smart Ammunition	Orange
Missile	Blue

 

[Sanchez]

View attachment 75887

That's a pretty nice infographic. Sad that longest ranged missiles we have just go <280km.