Montreux and Ataturk declaration from 103 retired Turkish admirals

[mulj]

Do you understand how you are contradicting yourself:

If by walking out of Montreux Turkey gets absolutely all rights over the Straits and it can do whatever it wants then why should it even waste tens of billions of dollars on a new Channel? Just open The Straits to whoever you want and charge them money for using them.

Even if Turkey walks out of the agreement (which won’t ever happen because this whole issue is just used for internal political purposes and it will make Erdo’s pimp in Kremlin veeeery angry) it doesn’t mean that it stops being in effect. We don’t talk about sissy agreements like the Istanbul Convention that nobody gives a crap about even in Bulgaria... We talk about an agreement that is important for the world Military balance and Russia’s whole defense doctrine. Erdo will walk out of it the day he kicks America out of Incirlik...

how do i contradict myself? you transfer all see traffic on canal istanbul and have full control of it while making money and increase quality of life of Istanbul people who will be spared of see and esthetic pollution everyday?
i do not get why are you against it, you have such a strong card in your hands but you do not want to call a shots, puzzling really.

 

[Zafer]

The sects we are talking about are a threat for the national security of the Republic of Turkey found under Ataturk according to his principles. If you prefer to forget that for 60 years their networks managed to infiltrate every State institution, turning it into CIA intelligence network, corruption and money laundering scheme, abolish the secular character of the republic then good. Your choice. And to your question "What is wrong?" the normal Muslim is living his life peacefully without committing Shirk by praying to Tekkes, Hocaefendis, being a part of a CIA intelligence networks or killing 251 Turkish citizens in one night. If you don't learn from the history then you will be forced to live it again. This is a cancer and it should be cut out completely and it is bigger threat than anything at the moment.

Are you saying FETO is a sect, this is laughable.
FETÖ is a CIA project that made use of said Nursi's legacy to disguise itself while hording individuals to create their hegemony to serve their foreign masters.
They commanded 6 million people at its highest
A sect is a rather small, perhaps several tens of thousands people at most minding their religious behavior, praying god for the well being of Turkish nation.

Who in their right mind can support another powerhouse in the country other than the elected government.

 

[Xenon54]

Are you saying FETO is a sect, this is laughable.
FETÖ is a CIA project that made use of said Nursi's legacy to disguise itself while hording individuals to create their hegemony to serve their foreign masters.
They commanded 6 million people at its highest
A sect is a rather small, perhaps several tens of thousands people at most minding their religious behavior, praying god for the well being of Turkish nation.

Who in their right mind can support another powerhouse in the country other than the elected government.

You just admitted that Erdogan only came to power thanks to CIA.
You are voting and supporting a traitor who serves foreign intests, let that sink in for a moment.

 

[Xenon54]

how do i contradict myself? you transfer all see traffic on canal istanbul and have full control of it while making money and increase quality of life of Istanbul people who will be spared of see and esthetic pollution everyday?
i do not get why are you against it, you have such a strong card in your hands but you do not want to call a shots, puzzling really.

Dude, read the treaty before inventing facts, Turkey has no such right to divert any traffic, the straits are pretty much like international waters.

 

[Skyfall]

Why can't you have the canal and the treaty stays in place? At the same time all military and cargo vessels have to transit the canal rather than the straights.

 

[Deliorman]

how do i contradict myself? you transfer all see traffic on canal istanbul and have full control of it while making money and increase quality of life of Istanbul people who will be spared of see and esthetic pollution everyday?
i do not get why are you against it, you have such a strong card in your hands but you do not want to call a shots, puzzling really.

I will explain it again:

According to you if Turkey walks out of the Montreux Agreements it gets absolutely all rights over the Turkish Straits and can do whatever it wants with them- open them, close them, charge money, not charge money etc.

Then why does Turkey even need a new Canal and for tens of billions of USD to be spent on something that will do the exactly same work like the Bosphorus which already exists?

And no... “aesthetic pollution” is really not a valid reason.

 

[Tornadoss]

What is wrong with this?

Unlike the olden times power projection to the Black Sea does not rely on navy alone. Cargo planes can carry pretty much anything to anywhere.

You were saying the same thing for Feto. Won't you ever learn from your mistake?

 

[Xenon54]

Why can't you have the canal and the treaty stays in place? At the same time all military and cargo vessels have to transit the canal rather than the straights.

Because with the treaty you have no right to divert any traffic in peace times.
Erdo thinks he is smart by putting the treaty into question without considering that this will piss off everybody, another damat ferid in making, this guy will be the downfall of Turkey.

Enjoy it Erodgan voters.

 

[Tornadoss]

Why can't you have the canal and the treaty stays in place? At the same time all military and cargo vessels have to transit the canal rather than the straights.

How would you force them to use the canal?

 

[Skyfall]

I think recent developments in Ukraine and this admission by minister is just to put pressure on Russia so that they get concessions in Syria etc. In other words the Russians are playing dirty so the Turks are showing that they can play the game too. I don't think that this means that they will end the treaty or support Ukraine in a conflict.

 

[mulj]

Dude, read the treaty before inventing facts, Turkey has no such right to divert any traffic, the straits are pretty much like international waters.

Well, that is the point of retracting from treaty, to nullify treaty restrictions...

 

[Skyfall]

How would you force them to use the canal?

I think that they may legally have a case as they are providing an alternative for transit. In other words they are not stopping anyone from accessing or leaving the black sea other than those stated in the treaty. They must have a good legal position other wise the Canal Istanbul project would not have been taken seriously from the outset.

 

[mulj]

How would you force them to use the canal?

By banning military and commercial traffic trough straits?

 

[Dante80]

I'm getting the impression that the whole brouhaha is an internal political game of sorts.

The idea of unilaterally changing the Straits convention to remove the free passage clause for civilian vessels in peacetime is diplomatically and legally ludicrous. At least, that is my reading of it, given the specifics at hand.

 

[Xenon54]

Well, that is the point of retracting from treaty, to nullify treaty restrictions...

Yeah and everybody else will accept a important internatilnal shipping lane to be closed just like that.

Nulliffy a treaty that is internationally recognizing your borders in a hostile neighborhood without a single ally.

You guys are geniuses, why didnt anybody else think of that earlier?

Does anybody still have a doubt that Erodgan is serving foreign interests at this point?

 

[mulj]

Yeah and everybody else will accept a important internatilnal shipping lane to be closed just like that.

Nulliffy a treaty that is internationally recognizing your borders in a hostile neighborhood without a single ally.

You guys are geniuses, why didnt anybody else think of that earlier?

Does anybody still have a doubt that Erodgan is serving foreign interests at this point?

what else they could do?

you will provide alternative route.

 

[Skyfall]

Treaties usually end with the signing of new treaties. So this will probably have to be the case.

 

[Kartal1]

Are you saying FETO is a sect, this is laughable.
FETÖ is a CIA project that made use of said Nursi's legacy to disguise itself while hording individuals to create their hegemony to serve their foreign masters.
They commanded 6 million people at its highest
A sect is a rather small, perhaps several tens of thousands people at most minding their religious behavior, praying god for the well being of Turkish nation.

Who in their right mind can support another powerhouse in the country other than the elected government.

Unity means force. Unity means network. In that case network of sects acting in a coordinated way as a terrorist network which have always been. A network trying its best to change the secular character of the country.

There is no other country in the world that is jailing its best warriors on charges of terrorism while using their work and legacy at the same time. There is no other country that is calling its Chief of Staff a terrorist. There is not another country in the world where senior military staff that dedicated its whole life in order to give fear to enemies and calmness to its friends to be unlawfully accused of anti-democratic behavior, arrested by persecutors because they expressed their security concerns.

Look at what a laughing stock Turkey have become. Look at that rezalet. Our enemies are cheering!

 

[Xenon54]

what else they could do?

you will provide alternative route.

Dude you are either very naive or dont know much about geopolitics if you really think that such a move wont backfire.

This treaty is the reason why WWI ended for Turkey and the path to it is paved with bodies of many thousands of Turks, this is something that the AKPeons dont/cant understand.

 

[mulj]

Dude you are either very naive or dont know much about geopolitics if you really think that such a move wont backfire.

This treaty is the reason why WWI ended for Turkey and the path to it is paved with bodies of many thousands of Turks, this is something that the AKPeons dont/cant understand.

I am not naive, aware of possible repercutions but somewhere chains of submission which were put on you should be broken, my countrymen also gave lives in ww1 as volunteers and mujahirs, either you will be fully sovereign country or not, there not much else to do.